What did you think of Memoirs Of A Geisha (2005)?

@ironpony I addressed all your questions in my previous posts, but you still seem to don't (and sometimes misunderstand). I could just as well give it up by now, but let me try once more.
I think you clutch too much to my individual words and fail to understand the matter in its general sense. No wonder, really, since my posts are probably the only source of your knowledge on Japanese culture. But it is a very bad idea to keep it that way. Don't believe me. Go and acquire knowledge on your own. I by no means have to be a reliable source of it.
I literally answered this in my previous posts. Maybe try reading the movie's script, or better yet read a book on the topic. Sadly, I have no recommendation in this case.
Watch A Geisha by Mizoguchi, then. Oh God. I can already see the thread's title: "What's so great about A Geisha?".
You were dirt. You were a peasant. Now you can become prestigious geisha and if you work hard enough serve the most prominent men in the city. You can either own a bar and be your own master, or find a rich husband and milk the bastard's money until he's dead. If you stayed a peasant, you'd have to work your ass off 12 hours a day for a bowl of rice, or bring up 10 children as your husband mounts you every time he returns home. Now all of sudden the profession of geisha doesn't seem that scary, does it? Besides, it's just a film. It might just use post-modernist techniques, or something, I don't know.
It's just acceptance of your own fate mixed with submissiveness. After a while you realize you could have ended up way worse.

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Look, I'm not judging you - after all, I'm posting here myself, but maybe, just maybe, if you spent less time here and more time watching films, maybe, and I stress, maybe your taste would be of some value. Just a thought, ya know.

please whatever you do ironpony, dont watch an art film.

I don't think it is. But Japanese people deal with things very differently than Westerners. A lot more is internalised. I echo Mr Minio's suggestion to read up more about Japan and its people.

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Oh no, don't discourage him. He already does the right thing in asking questions. Now he only has to work on his general knowledge and reading comprehension.

I can see the titles now



why is Satantango so long

whats so great about Jeanne Dielman

I generally do believe that asking other people of opinions on a film, or asking for clarification if you didn't get something is a good idea for a thread.

However, a thread entitled "What's so great about...?" in which a person who failed to connect with a work of art on emotional level tries to understand it intellectually is a miss. It's as if didn't like lemons and made a thread "What do you like about lemons?". People would say they like it, because it's sour. The problem would be, I'd understand their motivation, but would never experience tasting lemon the same. The reason being - I don't like sourness.

Beautifully and succinctly put.

Ironpony, what you are asking is for a lesson on Japanese culture. Google it. It can't be wrapped up in one post for goodness sake. Every thread of yours is But Why But Why to every response. It's like talking to a little kid who is seeing something for the first time and that's fantastic but ask on a japanese culture board.

Sorry I missed your previous post, Min, but re. the use of Chinese actresses, I asked the same thing. The reason and only reason it was done was because at the time of shooting those actresses were A Listers in Japan. The were trying to hook the Japanese and chine markets

That sounds believable. They hooked me on Li Gong for sure. I even watched the mediocre Hannibal Rising for her.

Yeah not sure how it worked in China but the Japanese audience was very upset.

I'm quite ignorant when it comes to Japanese actresses circa-2005, but I'm pretty sure you could find a bunch of very attractive ones as worthy substitutes for Li Gong. The funny thing is I got into her watching her late, mediocre films, like Curse of the Golden Flower (she's like 12/10 in this), and only later on discovered her best output. It started from Raise the Red Lantern, and then her other flicks when she was young. Just as attractive! I still have lots of her to see, but I will be giving myself small doses throughout my entire life. I binge-watched almost all available Setsuko Hara films and I already fear what will happen once I've watched The Daughter of the Samurai.

You miss the point. I said the producers were trying to hook the Chinese market. That was in answer to your question. Your rating system of women like rating cattle at a livestock auction is probably better suited to another thread.

I give you a 2/10 for this post.

Come on now. I thought you were more intelligent than that. Are you having a bad day, Min?

Well, it's you picking holes in what I'm saying and asserting my lack of intelligence. I forgive you, though.

Thank you. I forgive you as well. You already know I'm not your generation.

Now back to the op. Do you know any Japanese forums to direct him TO? as I think you pointed out, this is not a film question he's after. Im not inclined to put energy into a question about something as complex as Japanese culture when he will just pull the But Why carry on as usual.

Okay thanks everyone. I will try do more research on it, and give the movie another change perhaps, I just found the character's motivations to be incredibly polarizing on an initial viewing.

As for the Japanese characters being played by Chinese actresses, I read the filmmakers approached several Japanese actresses, but most of them were not interested. So if that's true, maybe part of the choice to cast Li, Zhang, and Yeoh, is that they were also more interested?

As for Chinese actors playing Japanese characters but not looking Japanese, in movies like Hotel Rwanda, they casted actors of African descent, but they did not look like Hutus or Tutsis specifically, and people didn't seem to have a problem with that. Or like how in Lawrence of Arabia, Anthony Quinn plays an arab, etc.

@ironpony

There's a great, mellow track by a long-time favorite band of mine, Spacehog, titled, Beautiful Girl. The lyrics:

Sixteen or seventeen, that's all I think you were
Fly by me one more time, I wonder who you are
The most beautiful girl in the world
I won't make promises I know I cannot keep
You'll be my sweet thing and I'll worship at your feet
The most beautiful girl in the world
...

As is common in our culture, we idealize stuff. Surely, whoever wrote this song did not literally believe his inspiration was the most beautiful girl in the world. Yet, he devoted enough to his muse to write the lyrics stating exactly that, while promising to worship at her feet. That, or he simply created a fictional romantic scenario for the sake of another song to the list. Regardless...

The song is, like so many other ideas, a romanticized notion of what otherwise might be mundane and ordinary. Another culture probably romanticizes other topics and concepts differently due to that culture's history and expectations of its society, but I think we can all relate to the idea of romanticizing something or someone---to place something or someone above where they would otherwise exist. Matters of principle, for whatever they may be to you and for whatever reasons those points hold true for you, can be an easy gateway to romanticize some abstract concept. Politics, patriotism, station in life, athletics, music, art, history, or poetry, while existing in completely different levels of a given spectrum, they overlap in that we all romanticize one thing or another. I may not understand athletics, I but I can absolutely understand and relate to loving something so much to be inspired to do greater things for it. With that awareness, I can then try to project my understanding of that onto others, empathizing with whatever it is that they feel is precious.

You do not have to understand why geisha are/were romanticized.

You only need to make a connection to something that you romanticize, then apply that reason here. Surely you have irrationally positive thoughts for something in your life? A pet, a family member, a girlfriend, some musical artist, or a sport hero? Use that as a reference point here, and work backwards from that. Someone, at some point, romanticized geisha. Someone else at some other point romanticized even that idea of geisha. Someone else, still, made a movie of it. Connect with the movie (any movie, song, painting, literary work of art, etc.) on that level first, then filter through the roadblocks you encounter one at a time. That might make the experience more approachable.

I've not seen this movie btw. I'm trying to hit this issue from another angle. Maybe it helps. Maybe not. Oh, and I'm trying desperately to not make a joke at the end of this post. I'm too self-conscious of that now.

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"My Dionne Warwick understanding of your dream indicates that you are ambivalent on how you want life to eventually screw you." - Joel

"Ever try to forcibly pin down a house cat? It's not easy." - Captain Steel

"I just can't get pass sticking a finger up a dog's butt." - John Dumbear

damn it, I can't help it. Mr (no period) Minio and Dani (Quokka-lady) EIGHT! I forgive you both.

There.
Done.

Your first post was spot on. Thank you for explaining it to him although I fear it may be futile but I hope not