Are Smile 2 and The Substance Significantly Similar?

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Corax's Avatar
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01-11-25
I can anticipate the first and probably only reply to this thread, one word with two letters.

Having seen both, it seems that these scripts are touching on the same ideas and may have that copied homework thing that happens. This happens so often that I am forced to quote, as memory fails a list so long.
Robin Hood and Robin Hood Prince of Thieves (1991) – Sherwood forestry competition

1492: Conquest of Paradise and Christopher Columbus: The Discovery (1992) - 500th anniversaries don't come often

Tombstone and Wyatt Earp (1994) – gunfight at the same OK Corral

Priscilla Queen of the Desert and To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything, Love Julie Newmar (1994/95) — drag queen road trips

Babe and Gordy (1995) — talking, live-action piglets

Powder and Phenomenon (1995/96) – Extra-Sensory Perception at work?

Striptease and Showgirls (1995/96) – dirty (pole) dancing.

Kundun and Seven Years in Tibet (1997) – in-a-Dalai-Lama-da-vida

Volcano and Dante's Peak (1997) — eruptive dysfunction

Armageddon and Deep Impact (1998) – great balls of fire

Antz and A Bug's Life (1998) — animated insects

The Truman Show and EDtv (1998/99) – reality TV, but for real

The Matrix, eXistenz and The Thirteenth Floor (1999) — reality as computer simulation

Red Planet and Mission to Mars (2000) – dueling Martian chronicles

Chasing Liberty and First Daughter (2004) – teen White House romances

Capote and Infamous (2005/06) — Truman Capote bio-pics

The Prestige and The Illusionist (2006) — 19th Century magician tricksters

Happy Feet and Surf's Up (2006/07) — animated penguins

27 Dresses and Made of Honor (2008) — bridesmaid romances

Observe and Report and Paul Blart: Mall Cop (2009) — overweight mall-cop comedies

Despicable Me and Megamind (2010) — animated supervillains

Friends With Benefits and No Strings Attached (2011) — flings gone right

Mirror Mirror and Snow White and the Huntsman (2012) — live-action Snow Whites

Lincoln and Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Slayer (2012) – aged Abes

The Double and Enemy (2013) — a man tormented by his own doppelganger

Olympus Has Fallen and White House Down (2013) – terrorism at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

After Earth and Oblivion (2013) – apocalypse soon

This Is the End, The World's End and Rapture-Palooza (2013) — apocalypses for laughs

Marguerite and Florence Foster Jenkins (2015/16) – cluelessly terrible opera singers

Barry and Southside With You (2016) — young Barack Obama

Rough Night and Girls Trip (2017) — girlfriends carousing

RBG and On the Basis of Sex (2018) — Ruth Bader Ginsburg origin stories

Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness and Everything Everywhere All at Once (2022) — multiple multiverses
Are Smile 2 and The Substance "twin movies"? Maybe not, but there are some strikingly similarities that indicate that the passed through the same hands and crosspollinated. Below is a list. No single item on the list, taken in isolation, really proves anything, but read together suggest a pattern.

1. Body Horror
2. Female Celebrity Lead
3. Body issues involving looks and performance
4. Performance anxiety explored as horror on stage
5. Climax in front of a large crowd
6. Elements of surreal horror

Are they more similar or dissimilar? Are there points I have missed?

.



Stirchley's Avatar
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01-13-25
Seen both. Didn’t think of them as being “twin movies”.
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Corax's Avatar
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01-15-25
Twin movies? No. Similar themes? Hmm...



ueno_station54's Avatar
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feral housewife
01-15-25
i think these movies are only similar in some really surface level ways. the substance is about body image, the nature of the industry, women as a desposable commodity etc. whereas smile 2 is more about like ptsd and anxiety. smile 2 is way more similar to something like jacob's ladder imo



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Pass the popcorn!
01-15-25
Star Wars and Star Trek are also significantly similar

  1. Spaceships
  2. Lasers/phasers
  3. Hyperspace/Warp speed
  4. Furry/bumpy-headed aliens
  5. Planets that look curiously similar to Earth
  6. Aliens with pointy ears





Corax's Avatar
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01-15-25
Originally Posted by FilmBuff
Star Wars and Star Trek are also significantly similar

  1. Spaceships
  2. Lasers/phasers
  3. Hyperspace/Warp speed
  4. Furry/bumpy-headed aliens
  5. Planets that look curiously similar to Earth
  6. Aliens with pointy ears


But are they thematically similar? is the subtext similar?



Corax's Avatar
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01-15-25
Originally Posted by FilmBuff
And the joke raises an important point. If we go looking for similarities, we will always find them. If we look for differences, we will find them to. Do these films have enough in common to warrant the comparison?



Corax's Avatar
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01-15-25
Originally Posted by ueno_station54
i think these movies are only similar in some really surface level ways. the substance is about body image, the nature of the industry, women as a desposable commodity etc. whereas smile 2 is more about like ptsd and anxiety. smile 2 is way more similar to something like jacob's ladder imo
My intuition is telling me that these films have something in common, but that "something" might merely be that I watched them in the same week.

It is interesting that both of our leads kind of "bring it on themselves," that the outer horror is an expression of inner corruption
WARNING: "Don't!" spoilers below
Vanity in The Substance, guilt over having killed her BF in Smile 2.


They both imagine (or experience) a traumatic physical disfigurement on stage resulting in a freakout. That was a curiously similar beat.

The monster within is "externalized" and "manifested" in the third act climax.

I agree that Smile 2 is more about a young person dealing with the issues of a younger woman (in present year), whereas The Substance deals with the issues of an older woman (in present year). One is trapped inside the fishbowl/bubble of celebrity, whereas the other is desperately trying to get back into the fishbowl.



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feral housewife
01-15-25
Originally Posted by Corax
My intuition is telling me that these films have something in common, but that "something" might merely be that I watched them in the same week.

It is interesting that both of our leads kind of "bring it on themselves," that the outer horror is an expression of inner corruption
WARNING: "Don't!" spoilers below
Vanity in The Substance, guilt over having killed her BF in Smile 2.


They both imagine (or experience) a traumatic physical disfigurement on stage resulting in a freakout. That was a curiously similar beat.

The monster within is "externalized" and "manifested" in the third act climax.

I agree that Smile 2 is more about a young person dealing with the issues of a younger woman (in present year), whereas The Substance deals with the issues of an older woman (in present year). One is trapped inside the fishbowl/bubble of celebrity, whereas the other is desperately trying to get back into the fishbowl.
i don't really see how smile 2 is addressing any issues unique to young women or women broadly. the lead being a pop star feels more like it was picked because they thought of the ending first than out of any interest to explore themes of fame and women in the industry. i can't really see these as similar films when the extent of the similarities is that it stars a woman and has a monster.



Corax's Avatar
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01-15-25
Originally Posted by ueno_station54
i don't really see how smile 2 is addressing any issues unique to young women or women broadly. the lead being a pop star feels more like it was picked because they thought of the ending first than out of any interest to explore themes of fame and women in the industry. i can't really see these as similar films when the extent of the similarities is that it stars a woman and has a monster.
Well, both films get into performance/presentation anxiety. Because they're both celebrities and because they're both performers, an aspect of the terror is how they are viewed as performers (i.e., the fear of not being able to perform adequately). Smile 2, for example, has the public speaking nightmare scenario of a teleprompter failure. Dennis Quaid boots Demi Moore off her own show. And again, they both fail embarrassingly in dance routines when their bodies betray them.

Body issues do come into it. They're both concerned about how they look. The case in The Substance is obvious, but in Smile 2, our lead refuses to wear an outfit because she is paranoid that her audience will see a scar through the material.

There is more that they have in common than women and monsters.



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feral housewife
01-15-25
Originally Posted by Corax
Well, both films get into performance/presentation anxiety. Because they're both celebrities and because they're both performers, an aspect of the terror is how they are viewed as performers (i.e., the fear of not being able to perform adequately). Smile 2, for example, has the public speaking nightmare scenario of a teleprompter failure. Dennis Quaid boots Demi Moore off her own show. And again, they both fail embarrassingly in dance routines when their bodies betray them.

Body issues do come into it. They're both concerned about how they look. The case in The Substance is obvious, but in Smile 2, our lead refuses to wear an outfit because she is paranoid that her audience will see a scar through the material.

There is more that they have in common than women and monsters.
i think the reason i don't see them as similar films is because the substance is very much about these things where as smile 2 is lightly touching on these concepts to get somewhere else. smile 2 feels like it's much more about the effects of stress and ptsd than the causes. i guess you could say it's two sides of the same coin but i really don't think these films have the same point, goals, intent or anything really.



Corax's Avatar
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01-15-25
Originally Posted by ueno_station54
i think the reason i don't see them as similar films is because the substance is very much about these things where as smile 2 is lightly touching on these concepts to get somewhere else. smile 2 feels like it's much more about the effects of stress and ptsd than the causes. i guess you could say it's two sides of the same coin but i really don't think these films have the same point, goals, intent or anything really.
Fair enough. I agree that Smile 2 is more about depression, addiction, stress. The Substance is more like a modern version of the picture of Dorian Grey. Again, I don't think that these are twin films per se.

That stated, there are some curiously similar beats in these films. Also, I think that they do share some themes, such as, regarding celebrity, performance anxiety, and public display of the body (i.e., measuring up physically).



Corax's Avatar
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01-17-25
The Substance really doesn't hold back on those homages to Kubrick. The carpet in the hall at the TV station. The funky bathroom at the station. The funky paint scheme on the wall. 2001 blaring as monstrosueelizabeth takes the stage. The wall of blood that covers the walls in the hallway.

I think we need a moratorium on using the carpet from The Shining. That's too obvious and too common. That needs to stop.