Brussels Attack

Yeah Yeah

03-22-16

Originally Posted by Captain Steel

He said this in front of the United Nations no less - as a direct response to the attack!
He publicly reinforced, restated and openly supported the very reason the Islamic Terrorists murdered 12 innocent people at the Charlie Hebdo magazine.

With his words, he justified the terrorists actions and condemned the victims for exercising their rights of free speech. How else can it be interpreted when he literally decreed that the future "must not belong" to those who exercise free speech about Islam? He was extolling the exact same irrational & intolerant ideology that the terrorists used as their motive to kill.

Quick question: are you are implying that the quote you are referencing came after the Charlie Hebdo attacks?

mark f

Bright light. Bright light. Uh oh.

03-22-16

He does whenever he refers to it, but my post shows it was made three years earlier.

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christine

Dreams is freedom

03-22-16

Originally Posted by mark f

He does whenever he refers to it, but my post shows it was made three years earlier.

Yes I read your link there Mark and realised Obama said that in 2012. Three years before the attack on the Charlie Hebdo offices. In these fast moving times it's easy to criticise in retrospect. Attacking your own president today for a speech he made four years ago advocating peace seems harsh.

Captain Steel

"Lois, I never lie."

03-22-16

Originally Posted by christine

Logic doesn't come into it. It's a completely different world to 1939-45. We had hundreds of people working on deciphering codes in messages back then, now anyone can contact anyone else from the middle of a desert to the middle of a city. This is guerilla warfare not a national war and almost every nation has suffered in some way from guerilla war.
The Belgians had rooted out a cell of 30 people a few days before today, they were expecting 10 or so now this looks like another cell altogether. These might be rat bag terrorists but sophistication in planning and weapons and communication is no longer only the domain of government departments.

The immigrants that are being shuttled around Europe are running from the terrorists themselves. They're the ones that have been affected the most, losing their relatives, their homes, their country. They are the ones that hate ISIS the most, they've lost the most and are now seeking stability for their families. If we can find some way of dealing with this in a humanitarian way then we can build a future where we don't have a core of disaffected people who are the breeding ground of resentment and unrest. This is the source of terrorism.

Attacking your own president seems a bit of a sideline. The more publicity ISIS gets the more they're going to celebrate being the centre of the news.

Good points about modern communication. It does change the layout when it comes to global Islamic Terrorism.

BUT, aside from ISIS cells in other countries and lone wolves, we know where ISIS is. Seems like 65 of the Earth's nations, with the most powerful militaries on the planet, in a combined multi-lateral effort, moving from all directions toward the centers of Syria and Iraq for TWO YEARS could have and would have eradicated ISIS a long time ago - that's if this "coalition" really wanted to. It's quite obvious they don't want to (or there really is no 65-nation-strong coalition, or the few countries that actually ARE doing anything do not want to do what is necessary because it would be politically unpopular.).

P.S. Why did the President of France call for a coalition of nations be formed to destroy ISIS after the Paris attacks when the Obama admin. told us there was already a 60 plus nation coalition formed two years prior which included France? Something doesn't make sense.

Captain Steel

"Lois, I never lie."

03-22-16

Originally Posted by Slappydavis

Quick question: are you are implying that the quote you are referencing came after the Charlie Hebdo attacks?

I will eat some crow and admit I was wrong.

I was under the impression this statement occurred after the Charlie Hebdo attack because the speech was aired by various media outlets shortly after the attacks. Like many, I thought this was being aired because it was a response to the attacks given by Obama to the U.N.

Apparently, the speech was only thought relevant and worthy of revisiting because of the attack, and Obama's words now seemed prescient in hindsight.

From what I read, he was referencing the YouTube video that his administration first blamed the Benghazi attacks on (while they knew it had nothing to do with the event) when he spoke of slandering the prophet of Islam.

So I must withdraw the accusation that he reinforced or restated the ideology that drove the terrorists in the C. Hebdo attack.

Rather, he simply stated the Islamic ideology (which also mandates that criticizing the prophet is punishable by death) and may have inadvertently inspired the terrorists who attacked C. Hebdo, or possibly provided them a sense of legitimacy or justification for their plan by reminding the world of the edicts of Radical Islam.

Last edited by Captain Steel; 03-22-16 at 11:08 PM.

neiba

The thing isolated becomes incomprehensible

03-23-16

Are you people serious???

ISIS is NOT Islam! Obama said that to prevent violence against real Muslims who seek the peace as much anyone else and don't kill anyone who criticizes their prophet...

Islam is as violent as Christianity, Budhism or any other religion... It's the people who are bad and good, and finding an enemy in every Muslim is exactly what these terrorists wants...

matt72582

Please Quote/Tag Or I'll Miss Your Responses

03-23-16

Originally Posted by neiba

Neiba, have you ever seen an ISIS member drink a glass of water?

Captain Steel

"Lois, I never lie."

03-23-16

Originally Posted by neiba

Indeed ISIS does not represent all of Islam or all Muslims.

ISIS, like many Islamic Terrorist groups, is a fundamentalist faction within Islam.

We use terms like "radical" or "extremist," and to most of us with a rational intellect, terrorism seems radical & extreme. But a more accurate description of what Islamic Terrorists practice is a fundamental or literal application of their religion. And the religion is not just a faith in the supernatural, but it is a cultural socio-political ideology that thoroughly embraces the concepts of theocratic totalitarianism, conquest and earthly supremacy via the genocide of everyone who will not submit.

Fundamentalist Islam takes the edicts of the Koran literally. It follows the examples set by their prophet as Muslims are taught they should. (It's a very good thing that most Muslims do not follow the example of their prophet who engaged in mass murder, beheadings, assassination, slavery, rape, torture, conquest, forced subjugation, and pedophilia).

The foundational basis of Islam (its scriptures, its history, its political contingents, its teachings both ancient & modern, the example of its prophet, etc.) is one of intolerance and violence. So a fundamentalist of such an ideology is going to embrace those things. It is the only "religion" that claims to have a divine authorization from God that each believer has the divine right to take it upon themselves as their individual duty on Earth to kill anyone who will not bow to their self-proclaimed supremacy.

If anything, moderate or peaceful Muslims are not practicing an orthodox or fundamental interpretation of what Islam is, the example of their prophet they are instructed to follow, and what it literally teaches, (thank Allah!)

neiba

The thing isolated becomes incomprehensible

03-23-16

Originally Posted by Captain Steel

Try to apply the Old Testament to our days and you'll see how many people die!
Islam is not a violent religion, there are no violent religions. What is written in Quran made sense at that time, Mohammed was a soldier. The moderate or peaceful Muslims practice a religion adapted to our days as every Christian does.

So, stop blaming Islam or Allah for the stupidity of some people...

And I'm an Atheist...

Captain Steel

"Lois, I never lie."

03-23-16

Originally Posted by neiba

I can't blame Allah since I don't know that any such entity exists - I'm Agnostic.

Your point about the Old Testament is valid - it is quite violent. The big difference between Judaism and Islam is that Judaism has no standing edict from God that instructs the Jews to subjugate or kill non-believers in establishing supremacy of their religion. Judaism seeks neither converts, subjects or piles of dead infidels.

To say Islam is not a violent religion sounds a bit naive. One needs only read its scriptures, look at the life that its followers are instructed to emulate, and look at its history. It has always been violent because it is founded on an ideology of intolerance and violence.

It's true that moderate Muslims practice a religion adapted to our days (that's a great way to coexist in peace). But you can't compare adapting a religion with basic tenets of "kill the infidel" to modern times to the religion of Christianity which has no dogma whatsoever based on killing non-believers.

Christianity (as far as tenets) is quite simple - there are only a few:
The first two I don't really agree with (which is why I dropped out). Being: the only way to salvation is Jesus Christ, and the Great Commission (spreading the word).
The rest doesn't need to be adapted to any time because they are simply this: The Golden Rule, love your enemies, forgive, place spiritual matters over material possessions, practice mercy & compassion, and love each other.

It boggles me when people try to compare the tenets of a religious faith that says forgive and love each other to a theocratic political ideology that instructs subjugation and killing non-believers.

honeykid

MoFo Whisperer

03-25-16

Brussels attacks: Man arrested in Schaerbeek police raid

Belgian police have arrested a man in a raid in the capital Brussels in connection with recent terror attacks in the city.

The man, carrying a backpack, was shot in Schaerbeek district after refusing to obey police orders, media say. Explosions were also heard.

Ten other suspects have been held in Belgium, Germany and France.

Police are trying to prevent further attacks after Tuesday's Brussels bombings.

An investigation is continuing into the bombings, which killed 31 people and have been linked to November's Paris attacks.

The Belgian prosecutor has named another of the suicide bombers at Brussels airport as Najim Laachraoui.

So-called Islamic State (IS) has said it carried out both sets of attacks.

An area near Schaerbeek's Meiser square was sealed off by heavily armed police and military vehicles on Friday.

At least three explosions were reported. Bomb disposal personnel and robots were at the scene.

The operation is now said to have finished.

Schaerbeek mayor Bernard Clerfayt said a man had been arrested and shot in the leg.

Eyewitnesses reported seeing a man who had emerged from an underpass armed with a machine gun being shot in the legs by police.

A local resident, named as Marios, also described gunfire.

"I heard two very loud shots," he told the BBC.

"Immediately within seconds police arrived... The streets were evacuated..."

Schaerbeek is one of the districts where arrests were carried out on Thursday. French police sources say the latest raid was also linked to Thursday evening's operation in a Paris suburb during which another attack was apparently foiled.

'Je suis Bruxellois'

US Secretary of State John Kerry, visiting Brussels, said that IS would be destroyed.

Standing alongside Belgian Prime Minister Charles Michel, he expressed condolences for the victims and solidarity with Belgium, declaring "Je suis Bruxellois".

The Western alliance would continue its fight to destroy IS, Mr Kerry said.

"We will not be intimidated. We will not be deterred."

Details of further arrests have been emerging:
◾ Brussels: Six detained in the Schaerbeek and Jette districts, and the city centre. Media reports seventh suspect seized in the Forest district.
◾ Paris: Reda Kriket, 34, arrested in Paris' north-western Argenteuil suburb, alleged to be in the "advanced stage" of plotting an attack. 2015 Brussels court conviction for IS recruitment, along with Paris attacks ringleader Abdelhamid Abaaoud.
◾ Germany: Two suspected jihadists detained in Dusseldorf and Giessen areas on Wednesday and Thursday - both with suspected links to one of the Brussels bombers, Der Spiegel reports, and one with suspicious text messages on his mobile phone referencing Brussels.

More details of those killed in the Brussels attacks have been released. Nationals of 40 countries were caught up in the attacks.

Among the deaths confirmed so far:
◾Three Dutch citizens
◾Two Americans
◾One Briton, David Dixon
◾One Chinese national

The Brussels bombings continue to have political repercussions, with questions surrounding the issue of whether more could have been done to prevent them.

Turkey has said it arrested and deported one of the bombers, Brahim el-Bakraoui last June, warning Belgium he was a "foreign fighter" - but the message was "ignored". The Dutch authorities had also been alerted, Ankara said.

Bakraoui is one of three men who carried out the bombings at Brussels airport, killing 11 people.

The Belgian interior and justice ministers said they had offered their resignations but the prime minister refused to accept them.

The other two airport attackers have not yet been identified. Bakraoui's brother, Khalid, struck at Maelbeek metro station, where 20 people died.

There are reports of a second suspect being sought for that attack. One source told AFP news agency that a man with a large bag had been seen beside Khalid el-Bakraoui on surveillance footage at the metro station.

Meanwhile, the Flemish-language public broadcaster VRT reported that investigators were working on the assumption that the cell had been planning a far bigger attack, involving Paris-style shootings as well as suicide bombings.

Links have also emerged with Salah Abdeslam, a suspect in the Paris attacks.

Abdeslam was arrested and wounded in a police raid on a flat in Brussels last Friday - four days before the attacks in the Belgian capital.

Investigators say Khalid el-Bakraoui used a false name to rent the same flat.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35899353

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