Obama's Legacy

It is a well known fact that Obama is the most pro-abortion president in U.S. history and he will always be remembered as such. No other president has been so instrumental in promoting death over life. It is a major travesty of justice.

He will be remembered moreso for 139946 other things, I promise you, so no it's not a well-known fact just because it comes from your brain. Have you forgotten that every president since 1973 has kept the law as is?

"President Obama similarly doesn't talk about abortion much. He famously tried to avoid the question in 2008 when Pastor Rick Warren asked him what rights, if any, unborn children have. "The answer to that question is ," he said then. With his strong election victory, Barack Obama was promoted to the office where the buck stops, where such questions demand an answer. His answer has been clear: none. The unborn have no rights at any time, in any context.

"President Obama has been the most pro-abortion president in history. That was a distinction not easily won, especially after eight years of Bill and Hillary Clinton. They famously said abortion should be "safe, legal, and rare." That seemed to be a middle path. But the only place they made abortion rare was in Antarctica. President Clinton sent out the Red Cable to all U.S. Embassies ordering them to press their host countries to make abortion on demand legal and paid for by the state."

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...l-for-Abortion

Anyone who claims Obama doesn't have a history of promoting abortion is totally clueless.

I'm mesmerized by your attempt to hijack this thread with the abortion issue. In your eyes it seems Obama is the father of abortion.
You give him way too much credit.

...and this thread went so far down the toilet you'd need a plunger to get it out.

I'm so sick of hearing the President, ANY President compared to Hitler or Stalin or any famous dictator just because someone doesn't agree with their politics. There was ONE Hitler, and that was...well, Hitler. To use this as a comparison just because we're mad at a healthcare law? It's insulting, insensitive, and shows a total lack of historical perspective. We can debate til the cows come home about whether we like this issue or that issue, but when you invoke the greatest murderer in history, you lose credibility. Done.

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He invoked it for abortion, but I agree. Every President gets called Hitler now. When someone actually is Hitler nobody saying so is going to be taken seriously.

There are two problems with this, I think.

The first is that, if you don't even know what the alternatives are (let alone honestly consider them), you're not in any position to declare them inferior to the system you prefer. The fact that you believe universal care is the best system doesn't explain your dismissal, it just leads to the question of why you believe it in the first place if you haven't compared it to anything. It also doesn't get rid of the obligation to be informed.

The second problem is that you weren't talking about whether or not you would agree with an alternative, but whether or not an alternative would be effective, which is important because apparently you're measuring effectiveness simply based on how much like universal care it is. It's misleading to say you don't think anything else would be effective when what you really mean is it wouldn't be effective at being universal health care. You're not really replying to what those other people said at all if you have to use a completely unstated, idiosyncratic definition to do so.

I think everybody who puts their thoughts out into the world has an effect, even if only on the quality of the discourse.

I don't think I'm very likely to talk you into being a conservative, especially if you don't already feel an innate obligation to hear opposing arguments before declaring them invalid. But I might be able to talk you into being a more thoughtful, informed liberal. Be against all those things, if you like, but be against them because you've heard the other arguments and can clearly articulate why you disagree with them. And if you're unwilling to do that, that's your business, but I think it's a clear prerequisite for issuing opinions about them in public.

Mesmerized and all other interested parties, I have posted my thoughts on President Obama and abortion in the abortion thread. Please read my comments and post in that thread, so we can keep this thread dedicated to the main topic. I look forward to continuing the discussion there. Thanks so much.

I've moved a handful of posts about abortion, specifically, into the thread AKA's talking about, so as not to overshadow all the other discussions in this thread, including the discussion about universal healthcare still going on (well, in theory).

Truth of the matter is, Obama will be remembered as the first black president. That's about it. He did nothing spectacular while in office, and I feel like he never will, so that will be his only legacy.