BBC airs interview of Indian rapist ; India fears for it's image

Whether the rate of honour killings are more or less in Islamic nations than in India is besides the point. (and who would even begin to know those statistics anyway given the secretive nature of the crime). Religion is besides the point too - didn't even think of religion while I was watching the documentary . It was a heinous crime that no religious or cultural excuses can absolve.
Of course we have to have defence lawyers , that's part of a fair judicial system, but in no system do we need ones that are prepared to speak outside court in such a vile and backwards thinking manner.
This is the twenty first century, India is a democracy , it has many fine women in government and in charge of institutions, it just looks to the outside world like a divided country.
From your own point of view Ashdoc, leaving religion aside please, what can be done or is being done in India to change that type of mans attitude towards women?

I don't know how many prosecutions there have been in the UK for honour killings (I hate that terms, but that's what they're called) but I can't remember one that wasn't Islamic. Sometimes I don't think it's mentioned in a report because, well, it doesn't matter. It's murder. But I think that it usually is, and in the case it certainly will be, and whether it's Hindu, Muslim or anything else makes no difference to most.

Sadly these things seem to be on the rise in the UK, however, it could also be that people are more aware of them now and so, where suspected, those disappearances and accusations will find a more receptive audience. Sadly it seems a misguided form/sense of political correctness (as well as self interest) has meant many of these crimes (and those relating to the abuse of children in care homes and other vulnerable children) have been unreported/covered up for decades. Thankfully these things have started to see the light of day over the last 5-10 years. In time, I'd hope we as a society will be better off for it.

Here's just a few links from the first page of searches of honour killings UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/honourcr...honour_1.shtml
http://www.dawn.com/news/741811/hono...ling-in-the-uk
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/a...-alarming-rate
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-1...llings/5082946

Also, not only is the woman named in the documentary (why shouldn't she be? It's her story. She did absolutely nothing wrong and was raped and murdered for it, suffering for nearly two weeks before succumbing to her terrible injuries. Injuries so severe the doctors wondered how she made it to them alive, let alone that she would last the night.) but her parents were proudly onscreen talking about their daughter, her life, what she meant to them and how terribly her tragic death has affected them. If her name isn't mentioned in India and the reporting of the case in India out of a sense of shame, then maybe that's the first thing that should be looked at/changed.

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5-time MoFo Award winner.

i still feel that the media is taking unfair advantage of india's democracy . people with attitude of the lawyer exist in all third world countries , but most third world countries are not democracies . so facts are suppressed there .

on the other hand , india is more open and the western media can go anywhere and dig up things that are suppressed in other third world countries . remember that the media can raise such a hue and cry because we indians are ready to take it in our stride .

as far as rapes are concerned , they occur in all countries . but the western media tries to portray that only india has this huge rape problem . i have heard several times in the last one or two years that ' india is the rape capital of the world '---a statement that is blatantly false and has come into vogue only recently after the wide publicity of the rape case involving the delhi girl . actually india is probably the only third world country that allows its people to introspect on the problems that its society faces .

what can be done ? improving the economy is one option , because if everyone has a job then he wont go into crime . north india ( that part of india where backward attitudes exist towards women ) is less literate , and improving the literacy rate is another option .

Definitely, I agree with you HK. Jyoti Singh's name should be known. Her parents obvious pride in such a clever, kind and ambitious young woman shone out through the tv screen. Not only did her mum and dad lose their child, India has lost a girl who would've made an empathetic doctor.

I've noticed over the years that often nothing happens about crimes within religious or cultural communities until people from within those communities start to rebel and say enough is enough. Here in the UK a lady called Jasvinder Sanghera was disowned by her family for refusing to marry at the age of 14. Her own sister committed suicide rather than go back to an abusive husband for the honour of her family. This lady managed to gain the confidences of women within her community and founded an influential charity that helps women threatened with forced marriage. She has been instrumental in changing the law so that forced marriage is a criminal offence and the Home Office now has a special unit set up to provide practical help both here and abroad.
The same thing has happened in the UK with female genital mutilation. It was some of the girls affected who began speaking out against FGM that started a more open public debate. These brave girls face some criticism from within their communities but such practises don't belong in this century whatever your cultural roots.

Women are more likely to report rape now, domestic violence is also starting to be treated properly by the police not ignored as something to be kept behind closed doors. There's a long way to go but the more publicity and the more openness within society can only be a good thing to get rid of violence against women in any form.



Yes Ash, but don't you see that the media should take advantage of India being a democracy ! India is big enough and brave enough to stand up and be counted! Let the media root out terrible things that are going on then let the people stand up and demand change. Look at all those brilliant women and men who took to the streets after Jyoti was murdered. It's time to build upon that . Forget about suppression in other third world countries, everything can't be changed at once. India can set an example instead of getting defensive ! Well, nothing is easy in such a big country with such a massive difference in income and education, but you have a great vibrant country

It isn't an unfair advantage, IMO. Obviously it is because India is a democratic and open country that allows this to happen, but that's something to be proud of. Do you think India is thought of in the same way as these third world countries you speak of? Obviously I don't know which ones you're thinking of specifically, but I wouldn't mind betting that India is thought of much better.

Quite. And as I said before, this is something to be proud of. No one's proud of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, China or many other high profile countries with appalling human rights records and whose rulers rule undemocratically.

Yes rapes do occur in every nation and every society, as do crimes of all kinds. However, this isn't a reason not to highlight them. Children go missing every day. Thousands of them. Do they all make the news? No. Why? Well, for many reasons, the sheer number being one of them, but also to do with the news day itself, the child that's missing and the circumstances in which he/she disappeared, how good/pleasant/appealing the picture of the child is (sad but true, this is possibly the biggest factor) but I don't think any country is seen as the World's kidnapping/disappearance Capital. I suppose the rape capital of the world is the place with the most rapes per capita, but it's completely unhelpful wherever it is. So long as the crimes are reported and dealt with properly when reported, that's all that really matters.

Education is all, IMO. Not only with rape, but society in general.

I agree with just about everything Hk and Christine has said, while being somewhat sympathetic to the way Ashdoc feels his Country is being portrayed whether or not this is the case. Just to Clarify something for Ashdoc (assuming this is even what he meant), i read something about the parents being lead to believe by the Documentary maker that they and their Daughter would be left Anonymous, and that they will now possibly take action since this wasn't the case. Not sure if this is true or not, but if it was i agree with Ashdoc that her parents wishes should have been honoured.

Still haven't watched it all myself, i saw the first 15-20 minutes then had to leave; i'll probably watch the rest tomorrow. Truly horrible situation my heart goes out to the girl and all of her friends/family. Still it's nice to see a civil debate going on here (meaning this thread), and i'm hoping in India (and everywhere else) on how to combat these problems. The only silver lining (hate saying that about something so horrendous but still) is that this might lead to more open discussion about violence, sexual or otherwise all over the world and particularly in Countries and Areas where this is prominent.

that is something that YOU are saying---only after i made all my points .

but the western media does not highlight this point . they tell people that india is this country full of rapes , creating the image of men preying around for rape .

in the past the image that was created was that of beggars and people who defeacate on streets . this found its way into movies as well . 'indiana jones and the temple of doom' showed indiana surrounded by about 25 filthy beggars the moment he landed in india , and indians eating monkey's brains and soup containing eyes . 'eat pray love' showed similar scenes of beggars .

the more recent image is that of 'slumdogs' with movies like 'slumdog millionaire' showing indians living in horrid slums . also this movie shows hindus attacking muslims , portraying hindus as communal .

you really think the media thinks this way ? actually the western media thinks that india is an easy target for sensational journalism , shocking people by showing its all-too-easy-to-report crimes and injustices . the crimes to be reported are carefully chosen , and the only crimes that are reported are the ones done by hindus .

Personally i've never seen India portrayed as the country of rape here, maybe since the bus incident some ignorant/hyperbolic news sources portray it this way but i'd hardly call that the "western media". If anything India has always been portrayed as a progressive, improving nation at least pertaining to most other 3rd world countries. This is kind of going in circles, but is it at all possible that the Indian Media is doing the same you are accusing the Western Media of, by only showing these aforementioned News Sources? If not is it at all possible you are personally seeking these out, to give you an outrage source? The only reason this has been somewhat prominent in our media (but not really tbh), is because certain politicians in India apparently tried to have it banned. Without that i doubt the shock would last as long. JMO.

You are correct in how India is portrayed in Western Culture, but that's hardly exclusive to India. On a much milder setting think how Scottish people are portrayed in England or vice-versa, or how Brits are portrayed internationally, or Americans, or the Irish or Whoever. That's without venturing into more offensive portrayals of countries other than India.

True, but I was responding to you. I couldn't have said that if you hadn't written what you did. I see no need to come onto the forum and defend India or any other country. It doesn't need my help and it's not what this is for.

I agree with this but, as Christine said, it's a few stories and mainly since this particular one which wouldn't have been known of at all were it not for the reaction on the streets in India. It seems that you think the media are all sat about waiting for things to happen in India so they can be demonised over here. I don't know what the outside perception of India is like in India (you're there and know this only too well I'm sure) but I can tell you that, from this side of things, I don't think that's the image of India that many people have here. Let alone the majority.

As for the media and how they portray things. If you lived over here you'd think that there was a paedophile behind every corner just waiting to steal your child so they could rape and/or murder them. They've slowly built up this atmosphere over the last 25 years or so and now it's the perception. However, things haven't changed. There aren't more, there aren't less and you aren't any more or less likely to be taken off the streets by a stranger than you were when I was a child, my mother or my grandmother. Now as then, you're far more likely to be killed, raped, molested, etc by a family member or close friend than you are a stranger, but there's no sensationalism or profit in telling people that the people closest to them are the most likely to hurt them.

I don't remember any mention of hindus or muslims at all.

Here is a TIME article about why India has got undeserved reputation as rape capital

http://world.time.com/2013/11/08/why...actually-isnt/

Agree with you.

I don't think so it's because India is democratic or Indians are mild; it's because the general image of India in the west has not changed much over the last several decades and India is still being viewed as underdeveloped, backward and poverty-stricken like back in those British colony days. As the saying goes 'the first impression is the best impression', india's image is still low in the West. Indian government would definitely want to ban a documentary that still propagates that image.

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SJ.
Wait and Hope

one more story that creates the image of indians being rapists ; this one from new york times . it may talk about a brave girl who tried to get justice for rape and teach her rapists a lesson , but in the end it creates the same image about india being a rapist's nation---

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/op...mare.html?_r=0

I don't feel that at all. I think it shows a country where the roles of women are changing and changing for the better. You can't not show the bad if you hope to change it. I think what she's doing is right and I'm also pleased to see her family backing her. You should be proud that this change is happening, ashdoc.

It will be sensationalised, and by numerous sides I'm sure, but I think that's just one more reason to have it looked at properly and discussed, so that it isn't just a succession of headlines which exaggerate and terrify in equal measure.

You guys didn't hear about the 5-yr old girl raped in India?? I read her family was offered $42 to shut their mouths... Evil.

I mentioned this to a chatter I know from India - I asked her why this seems to happen so much in India. She gave a shrug (?) and said, "It's become part of the culture" - shocking...

Any explanation, ash? Not that it's your responsibility, nor are you a representative, I'm just curious.

the only explanation matt , is that these thing probably happen in every third world country . but india is the only one which is democratic enough for the media to be openly allowed to discuss it .

Not to speak for him, but it happens because it works. Same happens elsewhere, it's just that the amounts are larger and we're more sensitive to it because the culture is different. A rich man (perhaps from a powerful family) rapes a woman. First there'll be denial then, if there's evidence or she kicks up a fuss/won't go away or something, there'll be an offer of money. One that'll probably increase each time it's turned down. There'll be threats of 'take it because no one will believe you anyway' or 'you don't want to make this public', 'think what it'll do to your parents/friends/family/job prospects/be in the media/whatever' and there'll be threats about how horrible the experience will be in court, exposing personal details etc, but it's the same deal.

And, sadly, 5 year olds get raped. 2 year olds. Babies. 90 year olds. Happens everywhere.

India ... welcome the 'world' of the United States! Here, at home, the USA is God's country, but to the rest of the world? We're just petty thugs - a violent, barbaric society. Apparently, though, we're selective about it - as our own media would have us all believing that the only victims of crime in this country are young, photogenic, white women. The media is about entertainment, it's not about real news and hasn't been, probably since the sixties. I wouldn't take it too much to heart, honestly, that the perception of India is that it's somehow the land of rapists. Despite New York's reputation as a paradise for purse-snatchers and subway muggers ... Manhattan's where the action is.