Rioting in the U.S.

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I stumbled on this on another forum. She pretty much sums my general opinion on these matters.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/...atch_permalink
I've seen a lot of her the couple of years, and while I don't always agree with her, she's pretty impressive. She's a great role model for young women and African Americans who question if their voices can be heard. She's not afraid to be brutally honest about real topics that other people are afraid to talk about.

The girl in the video is full of shiitake mushrooms. She's hateful and indifferent to the murder of George Floyd and she doesn't care that his family is suffering.
Responses like this are a problem in this thread and out in the world. Do you care more about Floyd and his family more than any other person who passes away? It's sad and upsetting for everyone but you shouldn't. It's how it happened that's really concerning. People give honest and well thought out statements and responses, but if it's not pandering to a certain crowd then they are vilified. How about telling us what she said that you disagree with? I've been saying the same thing all along, don't misidentify the problems. There's a lot going on, and people saying nonsense about acknowledging their white privilege are living in fantasyland. The police department needs to fix their ****, and the black community needs to fix theirs. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be empathy and understanding, and a willingness to help. That cool experiment that TUS and his friend did going into a store? Yep they looked at the black friend more suspiciously. That's because they live in reality. That's not racism and the exact same would happen if the store clerk were black. But let's chalk it up to the alternate reality of white privilege. By the way, you criticized a black woman talking about the black community. If you were on the other side of the fence, that would automatically make you an insensitive racist. I don't mean to sound overly critical because again, I think everyone here means well.



I've been doing some self reflecting lately and I've thought about my initial feelings in the George Floyd case. On the day the news broke, my mom telephoned me and told be about this horrible event where a cop had crushed the neck of a helpless black man who was handcuffed and pleading that he couldn't breath. I was horrified and angrily declared how rotten it was that a white racist cop killed a black man. I wanted the cop to pay for what he'd done!

By the time this thread was created, I began to question my own belief that this was indeed a racist motivated hate crime. There had been no evidence that the cop was a racist, but yet I had declared him a racist just because his skin color was white and the dead man was black. I thought to myself, what if the cop had been black but the same exact circumstance happened leading to a death of a black suspect? Would I still call that racism? And what if George Floyd was a white man who died while a black cop subdued him with a knee to his neck...would that be racism? I realized I had been wrong and that without any concrete evidence of racial hatred by the cop, the skin color didn't matter.

So then I decided in my head that the cop, Derek Chauvin, must be some psycho bully cop who gets his kicks abusing people. But then I thought about that and read about the case and how George Floyd, a very large and powerful man, resisted arrest as he was being put into the squad car, claiming he was claustrophobic. That made me realize why the cops had him pinned down on the ground and when he said he couldn't breath, to them it was the same as when he said he couldn't get into the cop car because he was claustrophobic, they thought he was lying.

I don't believe any of the cops intended to hurt him or to have him die. I believe it was a one in a million circumstance where the elements came together to cause his death. Sort of like what happened to the Titanic or what they call the 'perfect storm'.

I do think the cops were careless and there forth negligent. A third degree murder charge (manslaughter) would be appropriate. Anything else and we're just throwing these officers under the wheels of justices to quell social unrest.

All Lives Matter.



I've been doing some self reflecting lately and I've thought about my initial feelings in the George Floyd case. On the day the news broke, my mom telephoned me and told be about this horrible event where a cop had crushed the neck of a helpless black man who was handcuffed and pleading that he couldn't breath. I was horrified and angrily declared how rotten it was that a white racist cop killed a black man. I wanted the cop to pay for what he'd done!

By the time this thread was created, I began to question my own belief that this was indeed a racist motivated hate crime. There had been no evidence that the cop was a racist, but yet I had declared him a racist just because his skin color was white and the dead man was black. I thought to myself, what if the cop had been black but the same exact circumstance happened leading to a death of a black suspect? Would I still call that racism? And what if George Floyd was a white man who died while a black cop subdued him with a knee to his neck...would that be racism? I realized I had been wrong and that without any concrete evidence of racial hatred by the cop, the skin color didn't matter.

So then I decided in my head that the cop, Derek Chauvin, must be some psycho bully cop who gets his kicks abusing people. But then I thought about that and read about the case and how George Floyd, a very large and powerful man, resisted arrest as he was being put into the squad car, claiming he was claustrophobic. That made me realize why the cops had him pinned down on the ground and when he said he couldn't breath, to them it was the same as when he said he couldn't get into the cop car because he was claustrophobic, they thought he was lying.

I don't believe any of the cops intended to hurt him or to have him die. I believe it was a one in a million circumstance where the elements came together to cause his death. Sort of like what happened to the Titanic or what they call the 'perfect storm'.

I do think the cops were careless and there forth negligent. A third degree murder charge (manslaughter) would be appropriate. Anything else and we're just throwing these officers under the wheels of justices to quell social unrest.

All Lives Matter.
You know what's interesting about this? There's more evidence of racism by the people who call the cop racist, than by the cop. There is zero evidence that anything about the incident was racially motivated. So why are people calling him racist? Because he is white obviously.



I've been doing some self reflecting lately and I've thought about my initial feelings in the George Floyd case. On the day the news broke, my mom telephoned me and told be about this horrible event where a cop had crushed the neck of a helpless black man who was handcuffed and pleading that he couldn't breath. I was horrified and angrily declared how rotten it was that a white racist cop killed a black man. I wanted the cop to pay for what he'd done!

By the time this thread was created, I began to question my own belief that this was indeed a racist motivated hate crime. There had been no evidence that the cop was a racist, but yet I had declared him a racist just because his skin color was white and the dead man was black. I thought to myself, what if the cop had been black but the same exact circumstance happened leading to a death of a black suspect? Would I still call that racism? And what if George Floyd was a white man who died while a black cop subdued him with a knee to his neck...would that be racism? I realized I had been wrong and that without any concrete evidence of racial hatred by the cop, the skin color didn't matter.

So then I decided in my head that the cop, Derek Chauvin, must be some psycho bully cop who gets his kicks abusing people. But then I thought about that and read about the case and how George Floyd, a very large and powerful man, resisted arrest as he was being put into the squad car, claiming he was claustrophobic. That made me realize why the cops had him pinned down on the ground and when he said he couldn't breath, to them it was the same as when he said he couldn't get into the cop car because he was claustrophobic, they thought he was lying.

I don't believe any of the cops intended to hurt him or to have him die. I believe it was a one in a million circumstance where the elements came together to cause his death. Sort of like what happened to the Titanic or what they call the 'perfect storm'.

I do think the cops were careless and there forth negligent. A third degree murder charge (manslaughter) would be appropriate. Anything else and we're just throwing these officers under the wheels of justices to quell social unrest.

All Lives Matter.
I'd agree with all of that.

The only part I'd question is the one in a million circumstance (yes the circumstances were one in a million, but the outcome was significantly determined by the cops' actions).

What I mean is: the duration of time Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd's neck was probably the most significant factor. Almost 9 minutes of a knee on a man's neck significantly increases the odds of something permanently injurious or fatal happening.

That seems to be the biggest problem with Chauvin's actions. Almost 9 minutes during which Floyd (who was already cuffed - which is another major factor in determining if he needed to be restrained in such a manner) said he couldn't breath, pleaded for his life and passed out.

That Chauvin continued for almost 3 minutes after Floyd passed out is unconscionable - even if he thought Floyd was faking it, a cop can't risk taking the chance that it's a fake - you role the guy over, check his vitals, and if he's faking you can go back to restraining him.

If Chauvin had used this tactic for maybe 2 or 3 minutes, it's quite likely no one would have had a problem with it, but to continue it for 9 minutes - 3 of which were after Floyd appeared to lose consciousness... well, that's a problem.



You know what's interesting about this? There's more evidence of racism by the people who call the cop racist, than by the cop. There is zero evidence that anything about the incident was racially motivated. So why are people calling him racist? Because he is white obviously.
Good question and that's what I was asking myself. Why did I initially call it white racism?

My only answer is: like a lot of people I hate injustice...and I rushed to judgement based on my emotions...without having any hard facts. I filled in 'the facts' from preconceived ideas and then proceeded to declare that the truth, all based on my empathy for the victim. I think that's a human weakness and something the majority of people do. We say you can't judge a book by it's cover, when in reality we love to judge everything on the scantness of evidences.



I'd agree with all of that.

The only part I'd question is the one in a million circumstance (yes the circumstances were one in a million, but the outcome was significantly determined by the cops' actions).

What I mean is: the duration of time Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd's neck was probably the most significant factor. Almost 9 minutes of a knee on a man's neck significantly increases the odds of something permanently injurious or fatal happening.

That seems to be the biggest problem with Chauvin's actions. Almost 9 minutes during which Floyd (who was already cuffed - which is another major factor in determining if he needed to be restrained in such a manner) said he couldn't breath, pleaded for his life and passed out.

That Chauvin continued for almost 3 minutes after Floyd passed out is unconscionable - even if he thought Floyd was faking it, a cop can't risk taking the chance that it's a fake - you role the guy over, check his vitals, and if he's faking you can go back to restraining him.

If Chauvin had used this tactic for maybe 2 or 3 minutes, it's quite likely no one would have had a problem with it, but to continue it for 9 minutes - 3 of which were after Floyd appeared to lose consciousness... well, that's a problem.
I agree with your reasoning. 'One in a million' was me just trying to say it was a rare fluke and not something that happened on a regular basis. I agree that Chauvin (and maybe the other cops) caused the inadvertent death of Floyd by their negligent actions. I was mainly just wondering at my own thought processes and how my mind changed.



Good question and that's what I was asking myself. Why did I initially call it white racism?

My only answer is: like a lot of people I hate injustice...and I rushed to judgement based on my emotions...without having any hard facts. I filled in 'the facts' from preconceived ideas and then proceeded to declare that the truth, all based on my empathy for the victim. I think that's a human weakness and something the majority of people do. We say you can't judge a book by it's cover, when in reality we love to judge everything on the scantness of evidences.
That's why I mentioned in an earlier post about my buddy getting arrested years ago. I remember thinking at the time why is he arresting the black guy when there's 8 of us and 5 of us are white. The fact of the matter once I had a clear head was that it was obvious and justified. Live and learn.



Deleted several posts and issuing a temporary ban, just FYI.
If anyone insults me I don't mind. I think it's good to have these talks and get things out.



I agree with your reasoning. 'One in a million' was me just trying to say it was a rare fluke and not something that happened on a regular basis. I agree that Chauvin (and maybe the other cops) caused the inadvertent death of Floyd by their negligent actions. I was mainly just wondering at my own thought processes and how my mind changed.
I agree with your main point - the aspect of racism is only being applied due to the visual skin colors of the people involved, when, without knowing the internal though process of the cop, no one can say for sure (unless or until more information is obtained).

Plus, these types of incidents happen a lot without the same reactions from the public - white cops kill white people (sometimes justifiably, mistakenly or through brutality with hatred & anger), black cops have killed black people and white people under the same sets of variables.

In most cases, it seems the racism label is usually applied when it's a white cop and a black victim. Also, if the killer is a minority and they kill a white cop, we don't usually hear cries of racism and major protests against it even if that turns out to be a suspected part of the motivation.



This is all true, but at the same it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was racist. I just don't like guessing in these situations when it can help instigate problems like rioting, looting, and more killing. One of his incidents was pulling a woman out of her car, in front of her baby, for speeding. He sounds like an equal opportunity ahole tyrant who like to bully and intimidate. This time he went too far.



This is all true, but at the same it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was racist. I just don't like guessing in these situations when it can help instigate problems like rioting, looting, and more killing. One of his incidents was pulling a woman out of her car, in front of her baby, for speeding. He sounds like an equal opportunity ahole tyrant who like to bully and intimidate. This time he went too far.
The thing is the bulk of the protesting and rioting is based on the assumption of racism before the facts are in.

If we speculate that Chauvin's victim had been a white man, it's unlikely we would have seen either the protests or the nation-wide destruction (does anyone disagree with that speculation?)

And, plenty of white people (more actually than blacks) have been wrongly killed by cops, but we have never seen major protests or riots over them.

So it seems kind of obvious that the protests and riots are due to an assumption of racism when, as you suggested, Chauvin's actions may have been based on his inner make up - he might have just as easily choked out anyone of any color or any gender under his knee just based on how he was feeling that day.



The thing is the bulk of the protesting and rioting is based on the assumption of racism before the facts are in.

If we speculate that Chauvin's victim had been a white man, it's unlikely we would have seen either the protests or the nation-wide destruction (does anyone disagree with that speculation?)

And, plenty of white people (more actually than blacks) have been wrongly killed by cops, but we have never seen major protests or riots over them.

So it seems kind of obvious that the protests and riots are due to an assumption of racism when, as you suggested, Chauvin's actions may have been based on his inner make up - he might have just as easily choked out anyone of any color or any gender under his knee just based on how he was feeling that day.
That pretty much sums up why I posted in this thread and blamed the media in my first post.



We've gone on holiday by mistake
I think you missed the point I was trying to make.
Yea I must have, I guess the first half of your post sounded like playing the violin for the poor Police.
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That stretches for about two blocks and it's about a mile and a half from Fenway park. Peaceful and nobody in the streets, no problem.



This is the height of hypocrisy:
https://districtherald.com/rioters-c...-freed-on-cnn/
https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/2...el-greenfield/

Protesters have been calling for justice and demonstrating against racial injustice & police brutality - but here it seems some protesters who are part of the same movement want a killer cop freed who killed a completely innocent person (the very person who called 911 for help) for absolutely no reason at all. And I can't seem to figure out any reason they'd want him freed except that the cop was black and the victim he murdered was white.

And ironically, this also occurred in Minneapolis!