Conspiracy Theories

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We've gone on holiday by mistake
I always felt the Joker explains the last couple of posts rather well with his "all part of the plan" monologue.
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"Money won is twice as sweet as money earned."



I always felt the Joker explains the last couple of posts rather well with his "all part of the plan" monologue.
Yeah, exactly. Things going wrong in places full of poor or desperate people "make sense" in that we understand the relationship between these things and the dangers they often result in.

It's the seeming lack of cause and effect that really unsettles people.
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We've gone on holiday by mistake
It's a shame though when bad things happen as a result of rich countries foolish actions and no attention is paid. Example Baghdad bomb killing 50-60 same day as Boston bomb, all due to the US inventing reasons to invade and destabilise. How many have died since in Iraq, indirectly or directly? Maybe a million.

Vietnam, 58,000 US deaths, maybe 2 million from the other side, never needed to happen. Massacres like Mai Lai swept under the rug, the perpetrators unpunished, the whistle blowers given extra dangerous missions.

American media only goes on about US casualties.

Rambling a bit here but you start to see why the US is justifiably hated in many places.



Rambling a bit here but you start to see why the US is justifiably hated in many places.
Yep. And that's my main reason for it.
About the Joe Doe: I just try to bring movies to discussions in movie's forum's.



Yep. And that's my main reason for it.
About the Joe Doe: I just try to bring movies to discussions in movie's forum's.
I can appreciate using movie quotes to enhance discussions, sure...just not if using the quote causes your statement to mean something you're not actually trying to say, of course.



We've gone on holiday by mistake
Back onto Epstein there's been a leak of an off air recording of ABC news anchor Amy Robach complaining that they've been sitting on the Epstein story for 3 years, and quote "had" Clinton (Bill), but the story has repeatedly been killed. I believe she also complained about the pressure the Palace (UK royalty) put on them about linking Prince Andrew in the story.

I guess this would have been extremely damaging to Hilarys presidential campaign.

Also the employee who leaked the footage, despite now working for CBS has been fired. Strange, it's almost like all these huge media companies are being run by the same tiny group of elites who have friends/family linked to Epstein..... Oh wait!

What a great country USA no1, a choice betwee a protected paedo's wife or a reality TV star incompetent for President. Wait a go. (I can't talk, the Queens son is involved too)



The Epstein thing seems at least plausible to me, yeah. I don't think we'll ever know what happened, but it wouldn't shock me. Wouldn't shock me if it was really incompetence, either. People routinely underestimate how many people screw up, and how often, even with high stakes.

Don't really have any doubt he probably had damning information on several very well-known people, too, who might never be caught now. Disturbing.



Ami-Scythe's Avatar
A bucket of anxiety
My husband came up with a funny one. Not as an actual "Ah, yes! Without a doubt, that happened," but as a joke:

Heat is a government scheme created by President Bush to sell air conditioners. The files for this were in the twin towers so....
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Ami-Scythe



Captain Steel's Avatar
"Lois, I never lie."
The Epstein thing seems at least plausible to me, yeah. I don't think we'll ever know what happened, but it wouldn't shock me. Wouldn't shock me if it was really incompetence, either. People routinely underestimate how many people screw up, and how often, even with high stakes.

Don't really have any doubt he probably had damning information on several very well-known people, too, who might never be caught now. Disturbing.
I have no trouble accepting incompetence, but it's difficult to accept surrounding Epstein... because he was extremely high profile.

The guards had to be briefed and repeatedly nagged about not slacking around him or letting anything go wrong.

I was a security guard for several years, and on a couple occasions the Governor came to our site for a presentation or to speak - we went through months of preparation: practice drills, inspections, coordination meetings, long lectures from our bosses, etc., all to make sure that everyone was at the top of their game, at their posts, on their marks, and that no one would foul up on the day the Governor came. For us it was a high profile guest and I imagine it would be similar in a holding facility for a high profile criminal who still hadn't been sentenced.



I wouldn't accept incompetence as an explanation once they decided to make special allowances for him, because he's high-profile, but it works great as an explanation for not making those allowances in the first place. Or if the guards tune that stuff out.

Re: security guard. Private company, or government entity? I imagine that makes quite a difference. Some pretty unbelievable stuff happens under the purview of prison guards. It's not particularly well-screened or well-compensated, from what I can gather.



Captain Steel's Avatar
"Lois, I never lie."
I wouldn't accept incompetence as an explanation once they decided to make special allowances for him, because he's high-profile, but it works great as an explanation for not making those allowances in the first place. Or if the guards tune that stuff out.

Re: security guard. Private company, or government entity? I imagine that makes quite a difference. Some pretty unbelievable stuff happens under the purview of prison guards. It's not particularly well-screened or well-compensated, from what I can gather.
My experience was with a private company (pharmaceutical). Our bosses were former State Police and they ran the security dept. like the military. I used to say it was like going into the army for 8 hours a day. I'd probably still be there if they hadn't outsourced the dept to a private contractor company.

I realize it's different from being a prison guard (as a couple of my co-workers went into that profession - apparently they regretted the decision, saying they hated it... some hated it just for the depressing atmosphere of being surrounded by people who were incarcerated and so much negative energy).



Yeah, it's hard to say. I don't have firsthand knowledge, just know some lawyers and other people with some proximity to it who've expressed bewilderment over how it's run sometimes, and talked about how it can be bad enough that it really does look indistinguishable from actual malice/intent.



We've gone on holiday by mistake
It's weird that he was even held there and not some super secure facility with FBI guards, think Frankie in Godfather 2 on his army base surrounded by Feds, cause they want him to name names right??!.......right?...... Nope do(did) they **** want him to talk.



A system of cells interlinked
@GulfportDoc Just to clarify, I wasn't claiming that group of engineers were kooks. I framed that as a question just to get people talking about that side of things. I haven't spent enough time researching that particular group to have an opinion on the issue.
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@GulfportDoc Just to clarify, I wasn't claiming that group of engineers were kooks. I framed that as a question just to get people talking about that side of things. I haven't spent enough time researching that particular group to have an opinion on the issue.
Oh no, I wasn't suggesting that you believed the group to be kooks, but were simply wondering which end of the spectrum others perceived them to be.

In my view, those who are interested in this type of thing generally fall into two camps: those who are inclined to believe the government, and those who are inclined to think that the government lies. I'm in the latter group, and have been so since the truth started coming out about the JFK assassination years ago. Others believe that the government would never lie to the public. But one thing is for sure: everyone is entitled to their own opinions....so far..

~Doc



Captain Steel's Avatar
"Lois, I never lie."
Oh no, I wasn't suggesting that you believed the group to be kooks, but were simply wondering which end of the spectrum others perceived them to be.

In my view, those who are interested in this type of thing generally fall into two camps: those who are inclined to believe the government, and those who are inclined to think that the government lies. I'm in the latter group, and have been so since the truth started coming out about the JFK assassination years ago. Others believe that the government would never lie to the public. But one thing is for sure: everyone is entitled to their own opinions....so far..

~Doc
I feel un-inclined either way.

I trust people, but am skeptical. I have faith in law enforcement, but believe many are corrupt. I can believe the government to an extent, but I also know many within it lie. This is probably why politically I'm an independent.

Basically I base my opinions on evidence and take each issue or incident independently (without influence from party or philosophy). And this case has a preponderance of questions over a guy that had so many devastating secrets that a lot of people would want him shut up permanently - so this story about so many particulars going wrong at one precise moment for this guy to kill himself in a place designed to prevent such things all seems a little too convenient as to be believable. Possible? Yes. Plausible? No.



I don't think that's an accurate bifurcation. For one, there's a huge logical leap from "will lie" to "will murder thousands of their own civilians." For another, I'm pretty conservative, and thus not inclined to think much of the government, and yet I don't believe in any far reaching 9/11 conspiracy.

In fact, that's one of the reasons I don't believe it: it would be difficult for someone who generally found government ineffectual (which describes you, I'm guessing, based on other interactions--correct me if I'm wrong) to somehow carve out the huge exception to that belief necessary to believe the government was competent enough to sustain a lie of this magnitude. Seems like cognitive dissonance.



Captain Steel's Avatar
"Lois, I never lie."
I don't think that's an accurate bifurcation. For one, there's a huge logical leap from "will lie" to "will murder thousands of their own civilians." For another, I'm pretty conservative, and thus not inclined to think much of the government, and yet I don't believe in any far reaching 9/11 conspiracy.

In fact, that's one of the reasons I don't believe it: it would be difficult for someone who generally found government ineffectual (which describes you, I'm guessing, based on other interactions--correct me if I'm wrong) to somehow carve out the huge exception to that belief necessary to believe the government was competent enough to sustain a lie of this magnitude. Seems like cognitive dissonance.
As said, I take each issue / event individually.
In my last post I was addressing the Epstein "suicide".

I generally accept the government's explanation for 9/11 (although I admit, like in most major crimes or mass murders on a huge scale, there are still some unanswered questions, or answers that don't make total sense).

For one, there's a huge logical leap from "will lie" to "will murder thousands of their own civilians."


I agree with this - I don't think Bush or even Cheney were "evil" enough to murder thousands of their fellow Americans as a "false flag." And I don't think they or their agencies would buy into the twisted logic behind such a scheme. Plus, in the last 20 years, I've learned a lot about Islamic Terrorism and have little doubt that that ideology was behind 9/11 and many other terrorist attacks throughout the world.

But with Epstein - too many coincidences and "conveniences" surrounding this one guy who could potentially bring down entire dynasties for the suicide narrative to be believable.



I haven't read this thread so I don't know the particulars surrounding the death of Epstein or what other's have already said...It could be likely that he was killed during a beating and then there's a coverup of the murder.

Remember the serial murderer/human cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer? He was murdered in prison by a fellow inmate, probably because his crimes were so heinous that it evoked rage, rage enough to kill him. In the Dahmer case it was a fellow inmate who did him in. But what if Dahmer had been beaten to death be a couple of prison guards? Then they cover up their crime as they didn't want to end up on the other side of the bars.

In the same vein, I can see a guard or two beating Epstein just because of the nature of his crimes. That beating could have been fatal and then a coverup by the guard or guards involved. No grand conspiracy is needed to explain the mystery, if it is indeed a mystery.



That's plausible, the guards beating Epstein, but I don't think is the most probable. He was shocked to death, no punches, no nothing, he was shocked until he couldn't breath anymore, there was no signs of being brutalized, I don't think a guard would take pleasure in shocking a inmate until he died for personal gratification, sense of justice served, punching the hell out of him, yeah, sure, it's very possible, making his life a living hell, very probable, but even that I think is not that probable, because they see crimes like his every single day. We're talking about someone relatively famous and with some power, a prison guard would know that if he showed any signs of beating, Epstein lawyers would get that to the press and that sounds like troubles. But look, I don't know, I guess no one will ever know. Him being killed by an inmate is also possible, but, the cameras had 0.1 percent of failure and the two guards had to be both sleeping at the same time, and that is not probable at all, that means that inmate had to have enough money and power to pay those guards, and those guards had to anticipate the events Epstein death would lead to, and that is a lot of money I don't think an inmate would have, or even pay just to kill a guy. I don't believe in the possibility of incompetence of the guards, because, even, let's assume, the guards were really both sleeping at the same time and the inmates could see the guards sleeping, something I don't think they could, but let's assume they did, and they decided to take there change in bringing justice, they would have to know the cameras were turned off, someone had to tell them that. The only reason we don't have some inmate saying he killed Epstein is because that inmate would have to be killed as well.