Site looks off

This. I'll mainly feel bad if I can't participate in the HOFs like I have for all these years.

Respectfully, this is a little hard to believe. First, because you said earlier you always disable mobile sites, so there's no way you could know how much of it was habit if it's never tried.

Second, because some of this is based on really fundamental usability stuff. Specific things around the edges can be better or worse (and I'm happy to listen to feedback on those points), but I can't fathom a serious argument for "it's better to have to zoom on what I want to read than to just read it," for example.

And third, because the power of routine cannot be overstated. Again, everything you're describing is totally in line with how users observably react to sudden changes. Everything. It's practically a trope among developers. And all of them swear up and down that it's just worse and it's not habit. But it very often is.

I can't really understand or relate to the idea that the "fun" of the site has to do with moving back and forth between elements rather than the actual people and their posts. If someone's enjoyment of the site is dependent on the layout rather than the content, I'm afraid I can't help them. I try to make the users and what they post the stars, and the mobile design is a reflection of that.

It doesn't have anything to do with getting used to it. You made changes before that I found jarring at first. To me this is just plain ugly and unappealing.

It's pretty misleading to keep phrasing things as if you're unable to participate. You're choosing not to. And you're choosing not to because you saw the mobile style for a couple of minutes and decided a) you hated it and b) you will inevitably hate any version of it, forever.

That's your choice to make, however kneejerk and dismissive I might find it, but it's inarguably a choice.

You may love your dirty wooded lot, but when I come to visit I can remember the beautiful beach that was once there. That's what I loved.

I can only find so many ways to point out that people can't really know this, or that users the world over talk exactly this way in similar situations, so I guess we're at an impasse.

If anyone is skeptical but open-minded, please note that that is both my job and my hobby, and I've been doing it over half my life. If that turns me any trust, please give mobile a try as I work on it. I hope you do.

Sorry you feel that way. I'll be tweaking the mobile design and have some ideas about how to make the two look a bit more similar, but if the stuff you find unappealing is the mere fact that it's a mobile site, with buttons that are easier to click and easier-to-read text and all that, then I don't imagine that would make a big difference.

This change has revealed who is claustrophobic, and I count myself among them. But it's not like you put me in a box and buried me, so I will live.

And just remember y'all. This is Yoda's site. His non-profit site. You should all be counting your blessings that he understands your feelings and is trying to mitigate/resolve them the best he can. That's a hell of a lot more than you will get from anywhere else.

__________________
"This is that human freedom, which all boast that they possess, and which consists solely in the fact, that men are conscious of their own desire, but are ignorant of the causes whereby that desire has been determined." -Baruch Spinoza

And here I thought the draw was the people and the conversations they have.

I'm sorry if it turns out we have such different ideas about the site and what makes it good. Pretty design elements are nice, but I've never thought of them as the reason anyone comes here and I'm definitely not going to make choices that prioritize the design (without even getting into whether it looks nicer zoomed out to begin with) over the basic actions of reading and posting. If those aren't the primary reasons someone is here, I'm afraid they're going to be frustrated with a lot of the decisions I make.

Anyway, if anybody has general thoughts about improving the mobile style, I'm all ears. I think the rest of the stuff has reached an impasse. I'll still gladly listen to it (to a point) via PM or something, but let's keep this thread for improving the mobile style where we can.

And I sincerely don't mean to be offensive at all, but if you did everything a different color, that's something I'd have to get used to. This is far more than that for me. Usually I turn on my phone and I can see on my page who is where, what's going on, and decide where I want to go. I can't do that now. It's so radically different for me it's like I don't recognize it. It's a style that's been around a long time, I've had my own website for 10 years, I just don't like it at all. I'm not going to suddenly enjoy eating shlt if I practice.

Sorry didn't see the last post, will just keep my fingers crossed.

I'm not sure it works to say you don't mean to be offensive and then compare something as innocuous as screen-filling posts to "eating s**t" a few sentences later. People describing (incredibly common!) design elements as if they were extrajudicial interrogation methods seems like strong evidence that something more than a normal design disagreement is at play.

Anyway, no problem on not seeing the other post first. If things go well I'll be able to roll out a few tweaks today and/or tomorrow. I might kick a few of the bbCode helper features out a little early, with less testing than I'd normally like, just to make the transition as easy as possible.

All that said, it's worth addressing the feeling of "seeing where everything" is, since that's something that we might be able to address.

Obviously, a smaller screen will never have as many things visible at-a-glance as a larger one, and obviously there's a mutual exclusivity between seeing the general outline of an element and being able to read it or interact with it. It is (and will continue to be) inherent to mobile that the stuff in front of you can simply be read/seen/clicked on, without zooming or panning around. If that's the part you hate, I'm afraid it's not going to change.

If, on the other hand, you just want more features, and you just want the mobile style to have more detail here and there (possibly with an extra click or swipe), that is very doable and will definitely happen.

Raul & Cricket, I'm sorry to see you guys feeling so bad about using the mobile version of MoFo. You guys are two of my favorite MoFos and I hate to see you leave.

So please consider this: a mobile phone is a dumbed down computer. It's like a swiss army knife, it does a lot of things, but doesn't do them as well as individual tools. So if seeing the full desktop version of MoFo is important to you, use a small tablet or wait until you're at home and use a laptop.

@Citizen Rules: My mobile phone is the most powerful device I own. A dumbed down computer it is not. But I get what you're trying to say and it is mostly valid.

The only time I really have on here is usually with a phone. Sometimes a tablet but the phone was far more convenient. I won't leave, but I see my time on here decreasing. Which really it has anyways.

I don't have a computer but I'm interested to see how it looks on my wife's IPad. I just rarely have access to that. It's not only how it looks, it's also very much that I can't do what I've always liked to do. It's still early though and not like any decisions need to be made. Yoda always does what he can to make things the best they can be. Wait and see mode.

The auto scrolling "Now Playing" sidebar is a feature I like which is missing in the mobile. I also like the "Who's Online" section that not only shows who is online, but also shows where they are on the site. I think it would greatly improve the mobile view if you could add those features.

Obviously desktop is much better, but I can assure that that I’ve been able to participate fine in HoFs and other discussions with mobile (which I’m using right now). Of course when you have to paste links and images you need to switch back, but I really do hope people consider still doing the HoFs in mobile!

Who’s Online is on the bottom of mobile already.