Anyone else think Terminator 6: Dark Fate will suck?

Terminator, 1991: I need your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle

Terminator, 2019: I need your v-neck, your almond milk, and your hoverboard

Oh man, where to start with Roy-boy here...

First off, if you want to complain about the "sociopolitical agenda" of Terminator having strong women then maybe you should have thought of that before trying to defend the first two installments that are centred around a woman discovering the strength to defend herself against murderous stalkers. They were never "purely sci-fi for entertainment" - for better or worse, they were making those statements and if you flat-out refuse to engage with that while acting like Dark Fate is suddenly awful purely for doing the same thing then that's on you.

Second, why would it be odd to have a Mexican Terminator? Their whole purpose is to pass for humans and that means using a variety of appearances to blend in (otherwise every single Terminator would look like Arnold, which would be impractical for a number of reasons). As for the "but Arnold looks like a powerful cyborg" bit, If it doesn't bother you when a smaller white guy like Robert Patrick gets to be a Terminator but it does when a Mexican with a similar build gets to do it, then...take a guess what that implies about your rhetoric.

__________________
Iro's Top 100 Movies v3.0

The first two films were not about female empowerment or anything like that. That's just how you interpret them. They weren't pushing a message. James Cameron never said they were, but he did say Dark Fate is.

It's odd to have a Mexican terminator because it won't appear as menacing on screen (yes, because of stereotypes). A brawny Germanic man certainly makes for an ideal terminator (also because of stereotypes). Doesn't mean it only has be a white guy. I can imagine Wesley Snipes as a terminator. So there. By the way, Robert Patrick is 6'2 and a much more intimidating screen presence.

I would say just the opposite, T2 and Aliens were both feminist films but they were feminist films of substance and balance rather than cheap "representation" grandstanding we often see today.

Both of those films I think stand out as well in that they don't take the view that an ideal "strong woman" is one solely based on masculine ideals. Both Ripley by the end of the film and Sarah are very brave and competent but their both still driven by strongly feminine ideals as well and Sarah's big moral test is retaining them in the face of knowledge of judgement day by not killing Tyson. In Aliens as well you see most of the marines(male or female) have a very strong masculine bravado but its Hicks who proves to be the most effective and he lacks this and is more compassionate to Ripley and Newt.

A modern equivalent to those films would be something like Fury Road or Rogue One with female characters of substance in them who face real moral conflict.

Well, yeah, it's a work of art. It should speak for itself and be open to interpretation (instead of just being mindlessly shrugged off as "pure sci-fi entertainment" for not being quite so blatant about its messaging), so of course I'm going to think the guy who wrote a main character that goes from ordinary waitress to musclebound badass over the course of two movies is going to have some interest in female empowerment. He doesn't have to spell it out for it to be readily observable as part of the films' overall theme (especially since it ties in neatly with the established conflict between human compassion and robotic malevolence). It's not like it gives me much reason to think that that's not at least part of what it's about, especially when it lays it on really thick at times anyway (e.g. Sarah Connor chewing out Miles Dyson) and how other sequels like Rise of the Machines and Genisys still rely heavily on competent female characters. As such, I can't blame them for leaning into it with Dark Fate - unlike Ghostbusters, this isn't a hard turn for the franchise so much as it is a continuation of what's come before.

Also, I thought it was part of the accepted absurdity of the franchise that Arnold would actually make for a terrible "secret" Terminator because he's a huge guy, barely talks, has a robotic Austrian monotone, and behaves antisocially towards everyone he meets. Robert Patrick at least manages to come across as a normal human being to the point where they tried to play him being the new Terminator as a plot twist because he was too good at being human (and it doesn't matter if he's 6'2" in real life, the movie still frames him as being a smaller and more average-looking guy that Arnold) so there's nothing inherently wrong with having the Terminators be a different race or gender. Besides, if it was a matter of having a problem with this particular guy being an unconvincing Terminator then you didn't need to bring up race in the first place, yet here we are.

True, but I think that's supposed to be a design flaw, at least for his particular model. I mean, it is a robot after all. So its behavior/communication would probably be a little stilted. Though I agree his conspicuous appearance wouldn't be a sensible idea. All I was saying is that Arnold had a better screen presence. That's where my judgement lies, outside of the movie context. Robert Patrick had a good screen presence too. And I can imagine Wesley Snipes would. This new guy doesn't have it. Besides, someone Mexican doesn't feel right as a Terminator (because of stereotypes). Neither would an Indian. Or an emo teen. Or a decrepit old man. Any of those would be deceiving and work well in the movie's world. But not cinematically.

There have been plenty of Mexican characters with a tough attitude, not to mention all the villains, particularly in westerns. You don't even seem to know a lot about Mexican stereotypes, as they are often depicted as intimidating in movies.

Yes, Mexicans are often portrayed as hostile and villainous in movies...emotional. That's precisely why it doesn't work. I can't picture one like Arnold or Patrick...having a relentless, emotionless demeanor. That kind of intimidating froideur.

Would Danny Trejo fit the bill?

On the other hand, consider Benicio del Toro in Sicario. Or the twins from Breaking Bad. It can be done.

Yeah, all you need is a talented actor and you can pull off any kind of character you want. Stop making this such a race issue.

I would say that actually the original film shifts rather from the idea of a "hidden killer" in the casting of Arnie. I mean yes he's disguised just enough to avoid his true nature being known but the film doesn't really play on the idea of him being hidden much. The whole thing I think plays on the kind of apocalyptic crime atmosphere you see in so many films of that era(The Warriors, Escape from Newyork, Highlander etc) with Arnie representing that, he's the threatening criminal thug not the secret assassin the same way Clancy Brown is as the Kurgan.

So in that respect you don't want to have him hidden you want him to be a menacing presense, he's the nasty looking biker everyday people fear might turn on them but with superpowers.

Oh, yeah! I was laughing the whole time during the trailer.

After watching the trailer again I feel what has Hollywood come to. I feel that we have now reached the worst decade in cinema history so far probably, where as the 2000s was one of the best oddly.

1. Robot travels back in time to kill someone before they can do whatever it is they are supposed to do so another robot, kind of, comes back in time to protect that person. (a.k.a. Same tired old plot.) CHECK


2. Aging Sarah Connor who, although was a total badass in the day, really just makes me feel sad now. CHECK


3. Aging Terminator, (yes, an aging ROBOT), who has already been destroyed a couple times before but, you know, timelines amiright? CHECK


Ugh! Just got started and already tired of it. Pretty sure this latest installment of "Metal Man Bad" is going to suck. Just another cash grab like Predator, Star Wars, The Fast and the Furious, and Saw franchises. This is so out-of-hand at this point. I'll save my money.

To be fair, it's been long-established that Terminators are living tissue over metal endoskeletons so it makes sense that said tissue would age like a human's would. Also, "timelines"? These cyborgs come off an assembly line. There's a new one in each movie. Not sure how Sarah Connor having aged like a normal person is supposed to be a bad thing either.

Speaking of cash-grabs, you looking forward to Zombieland 2?

Cyberdyne Systems Model Mickey

That's the Borg, but whatever.

You're correct about the living tissue but still, the original terminator played by Schwarzenegger was destroyed by a hydraulic press at the end of The Terminator, a vat of molten steel in Judgment Day, and by explosion of a hydrogen fuel cell in Rise of the Machines. The fact that this is the same terminator answers the question of timelines unless you are suggesting that these were, in fact, three different terminators that were built to the same specs only progressively aged to coincide with the approximate age of the original terminator had it not been destroyed? As far as Sarah Connor's aging is concerned...she's old, guy. I like the character but I can't be the only one worried about her breaking a hip. Maybe I'm wrong though, these are just my humble opinions.

And to answer your final question, no I'm not looking forward to Zombieland 2. I don't think they'll catch lightning in a bottle twice. Also, I'm still upset they killed off Bill Murray.

Yes, I am suggesting that. Each sequel explicitly acknowledges the existence of the previous films' Terminator/s. Take this exchange from Rise of the Machines:

John Connor: Do you even remember me? Sarah Connor? Blowing up Cyberdyne? Hasta la vista, baby? Ring any bells?
Terminator: That was a different T-101.
John Connor: What, do you guys come off an assembly line or something?
Terminator: Exactly.
John Connor: Oh man, I'm gonna have to teach you everything all over again.

As for the matter of Arnold/Terminator himself aging, I think you're just meant to ignore that across those first three films (it's only once Genisys had to deal with a significantly older Arnold that they had to make up an excuse for his age).