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Originally Posted by Guaporense
Those are clichés.
*laughs* Narrative cohesion is a cliche like a car with 4 wheels is a cliche.

Originally Posted by Guaporense
Its very common for Westerners to evaluate Japanese culture from their Western standards of what's good or bad. I have the impression you are doing that sometimes when you talk about Japanese stuff. Its very common among Western animation fans to complain about the fact that Japanese pop culture "panders to otaku".
There's a difference between "pandering to" and "aimed at". What kind have people can fully appreciate the likes of Lucky Star and Genshiken unless you're speaking on the same level? I like Kill la Kill and it's pretty hard to imagine most people "getting" Kill la Kill that aren't already in that target demographic. And considering that I'm IN the target demographic, it's worth also considering the fact that I might not appreciate disruptions in tone and story in order to play into the interests I've been stereotyped with.

Imagine if you're at a rockin' metal concert and they stopped a song DEAD partway through a solo and the guitarist walked up and threw a bunch of Suicide Girls gift certificates in your face before walking back and struggling to find their spot back in the song.

That what it feels like to me.

Originally Posted by Guaporense
Here that you are mistaken. Japanese culture does not place as much emphasis on adequating their narratives to Western standards of consistency.
I certainly don't get that impression and I have no idea where you get it. It frankly sounds offensive to the countless people who put a lot of effort to defying that very idea... like Miyazaki.

Originally Posted by Guaporense
Also, " pandering " is universal, since everything has a target audience, people who complain about pandering and messy are projecting their own perception, that is culturay conditioned, of what is pandering or messy. Its essentially ethnocentrism.
It's ethnocentric to expect a story to follow it's own rules it's established? That's AMAZING. I've never heard that one before.

Originally Posted by Guaporense
Yep. Fanservice is of universal appeal. I like these Japanese character archetypes, the idea that clumsy girls are cool is from the facts that: men feel intimidated by powerful women making them clumsy makes then appear less intimidating and more amiable.
I'm not sure "universally appealing" is the best way to describe male idealism.

Your description is precisely why I don't like that character archetype; because it lowers it's female characters to a level preferred by low male audiences. There are females reading All You Need Is Kill too, and not all males appreciate the distraction.

Originally Posted by Guaporense
I find transformation sequences silly for the most part. Why? I don't know I just dislike looking at them. Although there are some that are cool (Nanoha movies) most are not:
UUUUUGGGGHHHHH that was stupid drawn out.

No, you're right, there are a lot of bad ones, but I'm not generalizing all instances of the trope, I'm talking about the trope itself.


Originally Posted by Guaporense
Well, I sometimes enjoy a good repetition of old tropes that is made well. In fact, that's the reason why people read old books, since there is nothing new there by definition.
Sure, but those tropes aren't exactly "old" if they're still being played straight to this day.

Originally Posted by Guaporense
All I Need is Kill is an excellently executed manga that uses some clichés of Japanese culture from time to time. That's not a problem for me that ruined my experience reading it.
It was less the Japanese cliches that bothered me than it was the nonsense plot and the romance that overwhelmed the climax. That's definitely not just a Japanese thing.

Originally Posted by Guaporense
You put it perfectly there was no need for me to add anything else.
I'm disappointed you think this was just about what I like.

That kind of casual dismissal is a much more frustrating trope than anything in All You Need Is Kill.
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I'm not old, you're just 12.
Damn. This is like a Manga world up in heyar'! Of course theres japanese kids that love only the western books.

Anybody ever read Dave Sims Cerebus? Neil Gaimans Sandman? Alan Moores Swamp Thing? Preacher was good till it ended like Inglorious Basterds. Total cop out.
I still need to read Cerebus, but the rest of those are great. Preacher is my favorite series of all time, actually. I didn't think the ending was a cop out, I thought it was fitting, considering the rest of the story. I'd add Watchmen, V For Vendetta, Punk Rock Jesus, and Fables to your list, too.
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Damn. This is like a Manga world up in heyar'! Of course theres japanese kids that love only the western books.

Anybody ever read Dave Sims Cerebus? Neil Gaimans Sandman? Alan Moores Swamp Thing? Preacher was good till it ended like Inglorious Basterds. Total cop out.
I haven't read any of those. I am not really interested in the content of Swamp Thing tbh, but since it's Alan Moore I may have to give it a shot at some point. I read part of Sandman and it didn't really do it for me. It's been a while since I read a comic, but the last good one I read was Batman: Year One.






Year One, I remember when that hit the shelfs. Frank Millers stuff would fly off the shelf, his work on Daredevil propelled that character like RDJr did for Iron Man. Klaus Jansen and Miller worked together alot, but not Year One.

Idk Monkeypunch, I was hoping all along theyd reveal John Wayne as the God, it would have made sense, and then....well, it ended B-rated stupid. my 2 cents, many more agree with you.

Cerebus was in-credi-ble Issues 1-25, High Society, and Church & State I & II. Skip the other 175 issues as Sim goes on a literary form of mental masterbation writing, droning on and on pointlessly. The art crowd might dig the last 175 issues, but those first 125 issues were an inarguable masterpiece.




Has anyone read The Matrix Comics?

They are awesome, and expand the universe. I believe there are two volumes comprised of short stories by different authors and artists.




Jango Fett: Open Season was a really nice 4 part mini-series. Objectively I wouldn't say it's great in terms of artwork and story, but still decent for a comic. It was more the content that was interesting, the Mandalorians.




Neil Gaimans 1602 is the next TPB Im gonna read. Hes like an R-rated version of Alan Moore, who is NC-17.




I'm not old, you're just 12.
There's nothing R-Rated about 1602. You're going to be terribly disappointed if that's the reason you're reading it. It's fantastic reading though.



Camo

I see you have a Preacher av, we might have discussed this already Im not sure, but I wanted to ask - Did you like how Preacher finished? I was seriously let down but seem to be the only one. It reminded me too much of the ending to Inglorious Basterds, where QT wrote himself into a hole and copped out with his "homage to drive in movies" ending



Haven't even finished it yet mate. Only read the first 38 issues. Loving it so far though, i'll come back and tell you what i think when i'm done.
Oh Dude! Dont let me discourage you, its a fantastic series Yeah Ill definitely want to chat about it when youre done.



I've been reading Amazing Spiderman from the start as well haha. Read the first 20 issues. Really interesting seeing all of the characters introductions and the differences from how i know Spiderman. I really like Stan Lee's simple writing as well; he's no Alan Moore but he does make the stories fun even though they are corny as hell.



I have to return some videotapes...
Year One is one of the best comics ever written, I think I like it more than The Dark Knight Returns.
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Damn. This is like a Manga world up in heyar'! Of course theres japanese kids that love only the western books.
The most popular foreign comics in Japan are Korean and Chinese. Overall the US comics are not a large medium compared to Manga or Korean or Chinese language comics. Their international influence is not that great either. Japanese comics are enormously larger as a medium, in fact, there is no country that is remotely close to Japan in that area of cultural production, their dominance in Comics and Animation is overwhelming.

Also, I should add that I am Brazilian so I don't have any cultural connection with American comics in particular. I read mostly Japanese comics because they are very well made and have genres that I like: historical, slice of life, science fiction and high fantasy. I don't like particularly the superhero style but I enjoy American 4 panel comedy comics liek Cyanide and Happiness and Hagar the Horrible.

Anybody ever read Dave Sims Cerebus? Neil Gaimans Sandman? Alan Moores Swamp Thing? Preacher was good till it ended like Inglorious Basterds. Total cop out.
I have brought the Sandman books. I will read then at some point.



17- Azumanga Daioh (2001)



The little girl is an essential element of Japanese culture. Its widely used in manga of all types aimed at all demographics. Its common in Japan for manga aimed at adult males to feature little girls aged 8-17 as main characters. I personally view this as something great because little girls are an excellent way to create characters that are vulnerable and reflect some of man's nature without the vener of masculinity and it's associated stoicism.

In this case we have a collection of 4 panel comic strips that are very funny but still very realistic depiction of high school life in Japan. Its the original source material for the now popular genre of anime, "Cute Girls doing Cute things". However, this manga is more realistic and subtle than most current incarnations of the genre

After reading through its 700 pages I felt refreshed and "healed" by the daily "adventures" of these girls. Although the art is of relatively low quality.



Its the original source material for the now popular genre of anime, "Cute Girls doing Cute things". However, this manga is more realistic and subtle
Thoughts on +Tic Nee-san?





Has anyone read The Matrix Comics?

They are awesome, and expand the universe. I believe there are two volumes comprised of short stories by different authors and artists
I just brought it, As a big fan of the movies.