Harry Potter

Well, Ryan you have gotten us all hyped about your movie. Even though it's a word-of-mouth type thing, still that's a lot of people.

As for "Pot-Mania," some parents won't let their kids read the books, let alone see the movie. I understand there's a line you have to draw when kids start getting interested in witchcraft, but if you're a smart enough parent you can teach them between right and wrong.

Alas, nobody dressed up when I went to see "Potter," I was really looking foward to making fun of some idiot dressed up in a cap and robe. I mean come on people, it's just a movie. Why didn't anybody get dressed up and decked out in ape makeup when POTA came out???

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"I was walking down the street with my friend and he said, "I hear music", as if there is any other way you can take it in. You're not special, that's how I receive it too. I tried to taste it but it did not work." - Mitch Hedberg

Well, most of them haven't heard of it. Don't go all Indy on me, Ryan! Aren't you excited about "Ocean's Eleven"? Don't you ever go to movies and get excited about them and expect them to be good even if you haven't seen 'em?

This movie is unique. I've never seen anything like it scince Phantom Menace. Even then, Phantom Menace didn't use the same media ploys as Harry Potter has done. The movie has broken new records for shameless advertising, as far as I'm concerned. Even going as far as running actual scenes from the film, on T.V. There's contests,too. If you watch some certian show, and remember the " Harry Potter-word-of-the-day" you get free tickets, or whatever.It's just a huge marketing deal between tons of companies that are making money off this thing.

No offense (I hate the idea of getting on your bad side), Sades, but I don't see the advertising as at all bad, or "shameless." Well, perhaps shameless, but principally because there's nothing to be ashamed of! I've seen a few tie-ins here or there, but when you think about it, it's not much considering the fact that it's about to break the all-time record for an 3-day weekend gross.

Not much?! Not much you say?! Fear my wrath T! You are insanely biased because you're obsessed. This movie was advertising way, way in advance. Not only that, but the masses of toys generated...and the costumes at Halloween...the school supplies! It's Harry Potter everything! You can't go anywhere without being bombarded with it! T, you have to admit( or else I'll murder you in your sleep!) The advertising was above and beyond the call of duty. Kids were going to see it regaurdless, okay. No need for the ramming of throats with it!

The kids were going to see it, but you don't break records and get yourself a huge hit movie without just one demographic like that...you need lots of 'em, and that's what Harry Potter has now. I mean geez, you make it sound like seeing a trailer on TV for the movie is somehow physically painful, or annoying: I tell everyone to shut up when they come on!

And besides, LOTR had teasers and such out as far in advance as Potter, for sure...they had some stuff about it over a year before the release date. It was really freaky how far in advance they've done stuff. They've got a Burger King tie-in lined up, too...but honestly: would you have acted so furious over that when you found out?

I don't think I'm biased in that way. I find flaws in the things I'm obsessed with quite often. You have to be obsessed with Harry Potter to nitpick it the way I did when I saw it Friday.

I have to admit I'm going with sade and Director Paige on this one. Both have good points.

True, a movie has to have a large demographic to make the buckets of money HP is making, but what I object too is what a mass culture potluck the whole thing has become.

Rawlings might have concieved "Harry Potter" as a series of children's books, but they've become became a pop-culture phenomenon based on the "me-too" principle: "Hey.....everybody's reading these books.....let's read them too so we can be part of the massive homogenous cultural mix that has already subverted us with ubiqutous franchises such as the Gap and McDonalds!" After a point, it just doesn't matter whether the books are "good" or utter tripe-- because thousands of people are reading them, thousands of OTHER people will try them out "just to see what the fuss is about" and the whole thing will snowball into a ridiculous frenzy, perpetuated in large part by a Corporate America with a vested interest in selling and re-selling the concept as many times as we'll lay out dollars for it. As soon as something becomes popularized to the extent that the quality of the original product is no longer evaluted critically, it's gone too far. I believe that's happened with HP.

I don't think Rawlings predicted this, but I doubt she could be happier: she will never have to work another day in her life. But that's not what bothers me: what bothers me is the extent to which people will allow themselves to be roped into the lemming-like fancies of the masses.

OK! Rant over. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree

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Everything is destined to reappear as simulation.
Jean Baudrillard
America, 1988

Uh, her name is J.K. Rowling.

Anyway, I don't think it's as simple as that. Some things catch on in a "well, I've got to see this!" kind of way. It's why "Temptation Island" actually fared well enough in the ratings to demand a second installment. However, this is not Pokemon we're talking about here. This is America, and in America, a lot of people dislike reading. Harry Potter got it's start because it's a damn good book. It became more popular because of word of mouth. I think it could easily drop the "Well, I've GOT to try it now" crowd and still be beyond huge.

Duid you guys see Potter's Friday estimate? Same total as the info Commish quoted: $29.45-million!!!

Jeepers. Not a bad day, huh? Can't wait to see the Saturday estimates.

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"Film is a disease. When it infects your bloodstream it takes over as the number one hormone. It bosses the enzymes, directs the pineal gland, plays Iago to your psyche. As with heroin, the antidote to Film is more Film." - Frank Capra

If they live up to the hype with a good movie, then it doesn't bother me.

It's too bad that the studios can't do that every time when a hyped movie. Regular people seem to enjoy this movie, so if it lives up to their expectations, then good for it.

But it is amazing to me how many people will go so far out of their way to see this movie. A teacher in Dallas took her kids on a field trip to see this movie yesterday. (And here we got in trouble with the district for taking time out of class to vote in student elections when I was in school).

I do want to see Ocean's 11, but if I read bad reviews about it ahead of time, I may not make it there on opening day. Bad reviews didn't stop anybody for Potter.

And I admit that I don't get this Potter-mania. I've seen the trailers, I know the gist of it. And there's nothing there that I'm remotely interested in seeing. At least I could understand Titanic even if I didn't agree with the love for that movie. I don't get this one at all. I like to see movies be successful, but I like it better when it's a phenomenon I understand. This one makes no sense to me at all.

By the way, the AP story I saw said $31.3 million gross for Friday. Either way, it's a record, but I wonder why the discrepancy.

Oh, and there's a difference in going to a movie and expecting it to be good and being so fanatical about a movie that I buy my tickets way in advance, dress up like a character from the movie (or wear some Harry Potter-related t-shirt or sweater or whatever), standing in a long line to get in (I don't do lines. Not since 1983, at least) or even going so far as to take off school or work just to see a movie. I want to see Ocean's 11, but I'll saunter in when it's convenient for me, buy a ticket as I walk up (as long as there isn't a line) and refrain from wearing any Ocean's 11-related merchandise (and if I had a real job, I wouldn't take off from it to go, nor would I take my kids out of school to take them). What is going on here is fanatical and that goes beyond just wanting to see a movie and hoping it will be a good movie-going experience.

Yeah, I've done the same thing. I've gotten everybody hyped about a bad movie. I'm just like Michael Bay. Shame on me.

Yeah, this is exactly it. T, I know you read the books before there was such a fuss over them, but you can't deny that the people who are going to read them now...are reading them to know what all the fuss is about. It's the same concept of Oprah's book club. Would the books that Oprah chose be as popular on their own, without her seal of approval? There's no way to know for sure. It's the " me too " concept Sullivan is talking about. No one wants to be left out, so they're jumping on the bandwagon. Oprah read it, so should I. The WORLD is reading it, so should I! I could be missing out on something!

Yeah, but this is different, and here's why: Oprah's choices are almost never huge hits before she slaps her big ol' seal of approval on them. Potter took off without any "What's the fuss about?" readers jumping on the bandwagon. I really don't believe for even a fraction of a second that it's those people that have made this thing completely huge. I think it'd just be REALLY huge without them. Aside from that, you get that with anything at all that's successful. So the real question is this: does it happen with Harry Potter MORE often than with most other popular things? In my opinion (and I mean this honestly), no flippin' way. Not even close.

LOL...Well, not hardly as bad as Bay, your film should be entertaining to watch. Maybe even see some props to MoFo on there....

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Sades, remember when Jurassic Park came out and they had all these toys(still do) marketing this franchise. I mean it's just a way of making money. You can't expect a movie about kids to come out and not have any toys dealing with the movie available.

T, you're blinded man!

All I'm saying is that this whole thing ran a natural progression of earned sucess, until the movie started it's advertising campaign. That's it. I'm saying the books did fine on their own, it was obvious that readers of the books, would naturally go see the movie...but the advertisement went overboard. WAY overboard. It's called saturation. Don't even try to excuse it.

Yeah, exactly. No one forces us to buy those. My little brother Charlie loved/loves his JP toys, and he used to love his "Shrek" doll (at least for awhile). He was nuts about the movies, and wanted the toys to go with them. Hey, fine by me. If I start selling MoFo t-shirts, hats, mousepads, and little figurines of myself ( insert your own inappropriate joke here ), I'd bet you'd be cool with that.

Anyway, still looks like Potter is gonna crack $80 million without batting an eyelash...we'll have some real estimates within a few hours....the Sunday-afternoon estimates are almost always within a few million.

I can't agree with that. I don't see a movie as really being able to be saturated that way. Advertising is advertising -- how can you have too much of it, save for it being on HALF of the airtime of the station's commercial breaks? The advertisements help the movie...no movie brings in record totals with book loyalty alone...they need to attract others, which is what they've done. It's not as if they'd conquered the world and were still asking for money...the advertising you've seen, as over-the-top as you may think it is, has most definitely contributed to this record-breaking weekend.

Yeah. I remember people not even knowing it was a book first. Jurassic Park is different. Kids have always loved playing with dinosaur toys, that's an obvious choice of advertising. The Harry Potter toys are totally gay though. There's this one game where you control this levetating ball through different objects...the toy cretors are relly reaching. There's no obvious choice for a toy here...but they sure as hell are gonna sell something to the kiddies!

This is part of what I'm arguing. Ok, so the book / movie deal is a victim of the "snowball" effect-- I'm content to frown at that from the sidelines without bursting any major blood vessels.

But, as you stated yourself, Americans don't like reading. Compared to some other cultures, we're not horribly literate on the whole. Hence: our standards of what qualifies as "quality" childrens' fiction are comparatively low, and we accept fluffy bubblegum-adventures as "great children's fiction-- and great for adults, too!" because the majority of us do not have good standards of comparison. I mean, come on: "great for adults?" If I had a dollar for every time I'd heard an adult say, "And I LOVED THEM TOO!" I'd buy this domain from you, T. WHY exactly do all these adults love the books? Because they either A) want to jump on the bandwagon, or B) have low standards as to what constitutes 'good literature'.

Okay, so maybe HP & Co are not a victim of the "snowball effect" to a greater extent than any other mass culture phenom. It still strikes me as too bad that a series of really mediocre (IMHO) books have become the popular, modern standard by which all other children's fiction is being currently judged.

And, as Director Paige has brought up, the fanatacism bothers me. But heck, the fanatacism surrounding Episode 1 bothered me, too.

One more, and I swear I'll quit:

I do think the over-the-top advertising has contributed to a record-breaking weekend. But the question I would pose is: "Is that really a good thing?"

As George Lucas once said (ironically): "Everybody thinks a good movie is a movie that breaks records. What's that got to do with anything? Like, who cares, really?" (Premiere May 1999)

Think Episode 1. Think Titanic. Think ET. Think Jaws. Now tell me there's a direct correlation between "gross ticket sales" and "quality of movie".

Hey, I'm not saying that HP is an objectively "bad" movie. If you like the movie, more power to you. I'm just saying that I think the hype and the hullaballo is disproportionately large in relation to the quality of the original books.

Yeah.

and one last thing. I better not hear anyone say that the best thing to come from all of this, is that children are reading. That makes me want to burn down things. I mean, donate all the proceeds from ticket sales and stupid toys to children's literacy, if that's your bag.(yeah, like that'll happen. )