A scary thing happened on the way to the Movie Forums - Horrorcrammers

Thanks!

Well then you won't like this because the victimization is the most protracted I have ever seen. That's partly why it's so hard to watch (and why it's been so memorable) because you can't ****ing believe what this woman endures.

I can see that, for sure. I just was slightly more shocked by the further-out-than-I'd-ever-seen-even-though-I-saw-it-2-decades-after-it-was-made frankness and realism of the violence of the initial encounter. I mean, one of the many reasons that TCM is a masterpiece is that it doesn't treat itself like a Horror movie, this is just happening to these people and, as many have said, it has an almost documentary-like feel. Which many have tried to ape and almost no one has succeeded. I mean, even the rest of Hooper's films, most of which I really like, still seem like movies. Eaten Alive is pretty freakin' gritty by any standard, IMO, but there's something about it that makes it simultaneously a lot like TCM and nothing like TCM. Because nothing is like TCM.

Also, for what it's worth, I saw the I Spit On Your Grave remake (I don't know why but the morbid curiosity I had to see what they would do with it won out over my disgust at the original film) and... I actually didn't think it was bad. I can't say I enjoyed it but I felt like they kinda got in the ballpark of what you could maybe do with what it was. And I liked the lead.

I Spit on Your Grave is complete shit. I don't think it is any more or less offensive than a lot of this kind of thing. Last House on the Left is considerably more upsetting with its use of violence, and even though it also pretty bad, it at the very least has a handful of memorable moments. Unlike Grave which is the worst kind of amateur hour exploitation

The scene that always disturbed me the most in TCM was the sequence of scenes of Leatherface running after, grabbing, and dragging Pam back into the house. I don't know why, but because I was going in expecting a slasher or some type of franchise movie, something about the way it played out seemed to seep more into the area of something I can easily imagine happening in the real world than anything else I've seen in slashers, or most horror movies, in a movie that I wasn't expecting it. Not the meat hook afterwards, but just how she struggled as she was dragged in there. And yeah, the rest of the movie has both the low budget 70's look that gives it the veneer of cinema verite (but only the veneer) and it journeys in and out of scenes of the macabre that is kind of disturbing on some level, but that one sequence always stands out in my mind of separating it apart from a lot of other horror movies.

I really appreciate this article. I have avoided I Spit on Your Grave, unaware of what merit someone might find in it, and always a little wary of the role of revenge in movies*, so this might get it put back on the list of movies, I'll watch "at some point." Maniac is still unseen by me, but is also on that list - though probably still much higher up on that list.

*: Namely revenge in retaliation to crime in a modern day setting. I think the short version of it is, "I'm okay if everyone understands this is fantasy and should only exist in someone's head. Trying to enact or indulge in these emotions in real world interactions will likely result in horrific results. And I often get the bad feeling the movie, or at least, a lot of the viewers, do not realize this" - the shortest answer I can give. I think the comment in the article about dissonance between talk of criminal justice reform while unironically wanting the law to send all rapists to an island and murdering them, is an example of that concern.
ETA: This is probably why certain movies, like Ms. 45, do work for me.

*I Spit on Your Grave goes down further on the list of movies I will watch one day*

Yes. Exactly.
That scene is so intense and utterly chilling. As I've said, and I assume we can speak freely about the scene here, the way that one ends where he just hangs her on the hook and goes back about his business as she struggles, like, as you say, the way she struggles for her life as he picks her up and drags her back in, I don't think there was anything quite like that and I really don't think any movie has ever quite captured it the same way, at least not one I've ever seen and it's not like I haven't been looking.
It's interesting that we have now three submissions for Most Intense Scene In The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and I think all three of them are winners. Anybody else got one?

That's what I figured, which is why it has never been something I've been all that interested in watching.

I mean, I do think that for some people there might be a benefit to seeing the ugliness of sexual assault on screen and understanding how much it is an act of violence as opposed to an act of sex. To understand the eternity of even a few minutes of such an assault. But I don't need any help understanding and I don't find actually watching such sequences in any way cathartic or insightful. I'd imagine many people in this thread don't need to see such scenes to have empathy or understanding for the main character.

I know exactly what you mean.

I thought Maniac was pretty good and would easily recommend it to any horror fan.

As for the merits of revenge films, well, I think that especially in the case of sexual assault you have a lot of people whose harm was never even put in front of the criminal justice system. Of the women (and men) I know who have been raped, only one actually reported it. And she had it handled by our college instead of calling the police (which was her preference). Never underestimate how many people (and especially women) have been harmed--even pretty brutally--and watched their attacker walk away totally unscathed. I'd be more critical of movie revenge dynamics if there were better legal/social systems in place to productively handle certain crimes.

Yeah, although it scarred me it's also left me with the desire to re-confront it at some future date. I always give credit to films that stick with you, whether in a negative or positive way.

ISoYG did not have that effect on me. I feel like I got its message the first time and there's no need to revisit that one.

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My Collection

I’m not terribly familiar with the subgenre, which is ok with me really, but own that stands out as a nobodies classic to me is Ms 45.
Revenge is also pretty good.

Keyhole, 2011

A gangster named Ulysses (Jason Patric) brings his gang into his old home, with a drowned young woman named Denny (Brooke Palsson) and a bound hostage (David Wontner) in tow. Ulysses wanders the home with the somehow revived young woman, encountering various strange memories as he searches for his wife, Hyacinth (Isabella Rossellini).

I've seen a lot of Guy Maddin's films at this point, and I've enjoyed them quite a bit. In the films I've liked the most---My Winnipeg and Brand Upon the Brain--themes of parents and children and seemingly personal memories have played a big part in the narrative.

Keyhole feels less personal than Maddin's other films, but I still really enjoyed my time with it. There's a lot more weirdness and overt comedy to it ("That penis is getting dusty", Ulysses observes about a wall-mounted penis in a hallway. There's a running gag about character's opening a door to find the ghost of one of Ulysses's sons masturbating while playing Yahtzee, then simply closing the door). The way that death seems to be suspended in the house is done in a fun way, and we are clued in with an early scene where one of the gangsters tells everyone to line up "If you're dead, face the wall." He then excuses the two dead men, telling them as they leave that the police will see to it that they find their way to the morgue.

Patric proves to be a solid central character, and he's well matched by Rossellini's supporting turn as the resentful Hyacinth. All of the actors do a good job of navigating the dialogue and finding the right tone for the strangeness, not letting their characters get lost in a mess of quirks which could have been an easy downfall of the film.

There is, of course, the usual Maddin sex/kink/queer vibe to everything, and I found it very charming. There's something refreshing about a film where nudity and sexy framing is applied with an egalitarian spirit, while at the same time there's an old-fashioned vibe to the sexual content as if the images were pulled from old timey erotica (like a shot of the bound hostage leaning against the edge of the bathtub). It helps that the humor is layered in with the sexual content, such as in a sequence where a regular sized bathtub somehow seems poised to accommodate three adults.

If you aren't a fan of Maddin's stuff, I don't think that this is the film to convert you. At the same time I thought it was a fun mesh of horror, fantasy, comedy, and drama. If you do like Maddin's stuff, this isn't necessarily his best but definitely worth watching.

I just recently watched this is enjoyed it as well. My first Maddin film. At some point I’ll hit up his other films.

I think that Revenge gets certain things right (among other things, the fact that the victim knows her attackers and isn't grabbed by some randos in an alley or the woods) that almost no other rape-revenge films do. In terms of the structure of such a film, it's probably the best I've seen.

I would highly recommend Brand Upon the Brain, My Winnipeg, and Dracula: Pages from a Virgin's Diary.

Both have been on my watchlist for awhile. Pretty much all of his has been. I just kind of…forgot about him.

For Maddin, The Saddest Music in the World was my introduction to him. Maybe that's why I'm under the impression that (or possibly Brand Upon the Brain) are his good introductory points (or as mainstream as he gets while being very Guy Maddin). My general impression is My Winnipeg is his most autobiographical.


For whatever reason I never saw Keyhole. I'd had to think (and remember) how I feel in comparison about the 3-4 other movies of his I've seen. Most of them have at least been entertaining.

I think your autocorrect attacked the second half of that first sentence and I can't reconstruct it in my head. Unless "a nobody's classic," is a phrase that I'm just not familiar with or just not placing.

Oof. That’s embarrassing. Yeah, meant to say “a classic nobody appreciated upon release to me” And somehow didn’t check it. Don’t know why the rest was cut off.
In my defense, I typed that up pretty fast during my break.

The scene where Franklin falls down while taking a leak.