World War II HoF

You know I could have nominated many types of films for this ... believe me.. if someone else would have joined.. I might have changed my recommendation to a Nazi exploitation film. ... or I could have went with a docudrama like "The City of Life and Death".... or even a actual Nazi propaganda film like "Der Ewige Jude"... or even a type of documentary overall... but I was pretty much considerate and picked a drama piece....

The City of Life and Death would fall under a WWII film as it was what preset the war..

I have many films that are WW2 based on all sides of the warfront..

War films, doesn't matter what war it is, can be horriblly depressing for me. I don't know what it is, but there is just something depressing about them. Not all, but a good deal of them. I think a lot of the films that deal directly with the soldiers get to me the most. Maybe it has something to do with getting to know the soldiers on a certain level. It is almost like you become attached to them in a way. And when there is no "happy ending", I can end up in such a terrible funk. I don't know why I do it to myself - watching war films, but I do quite love them.

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I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity - Edgar Allan Poe

I can agree with that. And that's kind of what Kirk Douglas said about the 1 man trapped in a cave in Ace In The Hole.

What about now?

I can't see it, neiba.

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5-time MoFo Award winner.

On the nominations post, can't you see the Come and See Poster? damn...

I see it now.

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"A laugh can be a very powerful thing. Why, sometimes in life, it's the only weapon we have."

Suspect's Reviews

Come and See is definitely one of the most unpleasant movie experience I've ever lived, man is that movie hard to watch, but I think it's intended that way. The music, the visuals, the coldness all culminated in this experience. I think the director wanted to reproduce in the more realistic way possible the horror of what war was and he succeeded. An other aspect of the film that I admired was that it showed WW2 from a russian perspective which is something I hadn't really seen before. Like most WW2 films, the film is not only antiwar, but also anti nazi. It demonstrates how they caused suffering everywhere they went. I had the idea of the nazis torturing people in France, but I never really thought about what happened on the eastern front and it was as brutal or even worst.

Also, the fact that we see war through the eyes of a young teenager gives a contrast to the film that really accentuates the director's message. What I mean by contrast is that a 13 year old's world view is always sort of idyllic and how the perception of this character had to encounter the harsh reality of war makes it even harder and brutal. By the end of the film it almost feels like he had become an old man. The sound effects made us feel through the whole film that we were him, that is why it was unpleasant, but it doesn't make the film bad in that case. So overall I'd say it's not a film I would want to rewatch in the nest 10 years, but it is a fantastic anti war film that I admire. It makes me wonder what a good war film should be. Should we ''enjoy'' ourself while watching a war movie? (Movies like Inglourious Basterds or even Apocalypse Now or Full Metal Jacket ar quite enjoyable) or should we feel an experience like Come and See presents us? I don't know, but I think it's a good question.

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I do not speak english perfectly so expect some mistakes here and there in my messages

Good write up PG...I haven't seen Come and See yet, but I like what you had to say about it, especially this part:

That's a very good question. Hopefully after I watch Come and See I will have an answer.

Come and See is not only complete fantasy in terms of it's depiction of warfare but also racist against Germans, who are depicted as monsters in that film. I found it to be a prime example of politically correct war movie that is praised for it's ideology.

300, for example, is a much more realistic depiction of warfare and the nature of war than Come and See. Come and See comes out very forced in the end. I think that movies like All Quiet in the Western Front and Grave of the Fireflies manage to portray the idea that war is bad in a much more convincing way.

Which makes it even more forced in it's political correctness: "look how war is horrible if we thrown a kid in the middle of it and make the kid suffer. Ohhhhhhh......." While I like very explicit movies (Grave of the Fireflies and All Quiet in the Western Front are not subtle about their message), Come and See comes out as just an example of bad taste to me.

Honestly, I had a similar intuition while watching the film, the germans are definitely seen as monsters, but the question I think is the following: Were the nazis monsters? I honestly don't know since I'm not an history major and haven't studied the question, but what I can say is that some films (like the very good movie Diplomacy) show nazis as human beings that are not solely evil like they do in this film.

Maybe it's politically correct in the way the movie portrays nazis, but I maintain that the film is an artistic achievement in the way it depicts the brutality of war.

That's interesting, I'm glad you posted that and now I'm really interested in watching Come and See.

An interesting comparison would be the German made film, As Far as My Feet Will Carry Me. This is about the abuse of German prisoners of war at the hands of the Russians.

I have felt for years that it was politically correct to portray a German soldier as being evil. As far as the way that I feel about things, there is a difference between German soldiers and a Nazi. And I know a lot of people would tell me that it is the same thing. But if a person tells me that, I know it would be hard for me to explain what I mean. In my mind the Nazi is the person in power, or someone who has some sort of authority. He isn't the common everyday soldier that was actually fighting in the war. And I don't care to always see EVERY German portrayed that way. It gets old. It gets a little hard to take. I am not ignorant to what went on with them, but what went on wasn't done by every soldier. And, in reality, a lot of what was done by a soldier wasn't necessarily done by choice. It was what was commanded of them. And what is a person going to do? Risk his own life by disobeying orders? I don't think so. So, when I see movies that do nothing but portray every soldier as evil, it gets to be too much sometimes.

I haven't seen "Come and See". So I can't compare how I feel about any sort of portrayal in general to that film yet. My brother is really into WWII films. He wanted to know which movies we were watching, and as soon as I said that one he said "I think that's Russian. I think I saw it and it was an OK movie". So, I am not too sure if "OK" means "good" or just "OK". I am hoping he meant "good", which I am assuming he did.

I think some are blind to what Adolph Hitler and his top men did. They made many propaganda films to teach the common German that Jews were less than human. I have seen one of the propaganda films and yeah its pretty harsh. I should have nominated that. I think CR has watched it, not sure about anyone else in this thread. Germans were cruel due to brainwashing. It happens in every war!

The typical German soldier was very much like the typical soldiers from other countries. A total of 18 million soldiers were drafted into the German army, all of them had no choice other than to fight. Most Germans were against the war, by the way (source: Germany and the Second World War), but they fought because it was their duty in the army. Very few German soldiers were even aware of the holocaust, even among the top generals, since the Nazi party knew that was a crime against humanity information about it was very secretive.

The level of brutality is exaggerated in most movies, the difference is that the Nazi party had an organization called Waffen SS, which was small compared to the army but had all the psychos and it was the organization that ran the holocaust. Still since there were 1 million men who were drafted there most cannot have been psychos and most soldiers there also didn't know exactly what was happening in the camps (need to know basis), although they could guess given the trains of people coming in and apparently nothing coming out...

I also noticed that in older American movies like Cross of Iron, A Bridge too Far or The Great Escape the Germans are depicted as humans while in newer movies like Saving Private Ryan the Germans are depicted as Nazi caricatures. Essentially the Nazis became part of popular folkore and German soldiers became caricatured as "Nazis" as time goes on and the war looks more and more distant.

You know, I never see anyone mention this on that day. This would be the first.

I have watched several of the movies nominated. I think that so far the one I liked most was Lora. Which is a very good modern Europea cinema experience: it's very real, very physical/visceral type of movie. Older movies lack that visceral quality, apparently.

Could we have your thoughts on what you've seen Guap?

And I just started with the watchings for this HoF!!


This is one of my dad's favourite movies and I've been meaning to watch it for a very long time so I felt happy when I saw it being nominated.
It's an incredibly immersive film, with a terrific cinematography and script! The acting is pretty good by all the cast too!
I loved the Stockholm Syndrome Colonel Nicholson was going through and the opposing of different ideas on war and following of the rules!
It may not be as intense as some other movies on war, but it delivers its point in a magnificent and beautiful way! A classic that will likely be on my 50's list!