Who Will be Our Next President?

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Yeah, I dunno. I think a lot of what he says can be explained the way you're saying (though it still matters, and since he's the actual President, he needs to be held to a higher standard), but some of it can't. That's my basic position here.

Anyway, to avoid these things dragging on, it's probably good to just state something if you think it's obvious and provide evidence if and when it's disputed. Like, if you say China misled us, I'd just have said yeah, and you save a lot of time. Similarly, I haven't launched into a granular breakdown of Trump's obvious lies and their damage, because maybe I mention it and you say "I agree, BUT" and we move on from there.



In defence of keeping these threads open as much as possible, when I joined this forum I was 16 years old, really left-wing and couldn't fathom how any "decent" person could vote for someone "right-wing". I was actually pretty surprised that so many people on this forum seemed to have the opposite views to me. My views have changed over time, which isn't really surprising going from 16 to 25 but I like to think that this place has helped with a lot of my knowledge on certain issues in American politics and also debating in general. It was the first time that I really saw "right-wing" politics argued quite eloquently, back then I had quite a simplistic view that supporting the left was intelligent, morally good, and the opposite was dumb and morally bad. I find the whole thing fascinating and have been absolutely riveted by this election. I really enjoy reading people's different opinions and would happily go for a drink with most people on here and have a chat about politics. It makes a change from a lot of social media echo chambers where you just get the same things shouted back and forth between each other, where people are horrified if someone has a differing opinion.
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That elusive hide-and-seek cow is at it again
If you're talking about putting up a building I don't think there are risks in bringing in more workers that know what they're doing.
No. My bad on assuming we were talking about government contractors, given the government topic here. Yes. I agree (never really disagreed, only added more detail to the discussion that seemed to be overlooked), if throwing more bodies at a problem can resolve it fast then by all means send them in. If we're only building a house, then labor force is relatively easier to find to support that. For example, I'm sure I can google my tri-state area and find easy 20 or so general contractors. Each of those contractors probably has access to 10-50 general laborers that can be called into work. I think we can both agree, though, that those numbers go down the higher up the specialty labor ladder we go. Brick layers, concrete, roof tiling, carpentry, plumbing, electrical, county inspectors, heavy equipment operators, metal work, etc. The higher up that chain we go, the more restrictive the education, certification, and/or licensing gets and the thinner that labor pool becomes. It would be easy to find a general contractor to help me with some repairs. Getting someone in today to add a room to my home with county regulated permits, with a backlog of 3 month, not so easy.

That's the dynamic my original reply was trying to point at. Throwing more people isn't a one-size-fits-all solution.

I came at this from a government contractor's perspective, which is a different world. My post reflects my experience in that world, which I feel we can agree is not the same as building a house. I think we would also agree that medical R&D is even farther removed from either field.

You seem to be telling me that any accelerated timeline comes with a risk and there's no way around it. I don't believe that.
I'm telling you what I've tried to say from the start. Reducing timelines increases risk. I never said there is no way around it. Actually, I've tried pointing to examples to show that just increasing the number of hands-on isn't always the solution. There is a difference. Granted, some risks are low, relative to others. Granted, some problems can be solved with more laborers. I assumed it should also be granted that not all problems are equal and that while throwing more people to the problem can work, that doesn't apply to every problem equally. Being as casual for unknown medical development as we would be for general construction is weird to me. Those are not the same thing. They aren't even close.

I think there can always be a reasonable hope that things may get done quicker than originally expected. I don't think that is anything outlandish.
Agreed. That in an of itself is not outlandish. What I find outlandish in arguing that those same assumptions apply across the board and for something as potentially lethal as a C-19 vaccination test (edit: I mean, the virus in general too, here and our responses to it). Did I say it IS lethal? No. I'm stressing the potential. I don't think that is something to take likely or dismissively though. And again, that was my point: to note what seemed to be dismissed in some of your earlier posts.

I guess I find it a bit outlandish too that this has gone on for so long lol. I mean, for all I'm trying to add to the conversation, I really just expected, "Well, yeah. Of course there's risk. I didn't go on about it because I figured it was a given." Or something along those lines rather than the push back on details.

If you're saying there are risks to an early vaccine, I'm wondering risk to who? Not to the public since it has to be approved first.
That's not true though. How do you think they test the vaccine? Usually testing would go through a series of non-human trials before being tested on humans. Humans (read: the public) are volunteering to test vaccines now. One has died already for it. Has the vaccine been approved by any governing body? No, but people have these tests in their systems. That is a very real example of the risk I'm trying desperately to note. Hey just one person died that I know of. I admit that's relatively good odds. Still, that is a very real example of what cutting corners may lead to. I have no idea if others are experiencing non-fatal side effects though. Should we assume no, and move on?

To beat this gasping dying horse one last time, I am NOT arguing that speeding trials shouldn't happen. I am arguing only to be mindful of the possible risk and outcome and to not blindly charge in or be so casual agreeing that others should blindly charge in just because it totes works for home construction and that he means well even if it is arguably a political stunt to save face.

definately last post this time.

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"My Dionne Warwick understanding of your dream indicates that you are ambivalent on how you want life to eventually screw you." - Joel

"Ever try to forcibly pin down a house cat? It's not easy." - Captain Steel

"I just can't get pass sticking a finger up a dog's butt." - John Dumbear



Sadly for me I think it may be Biden. I've been down too many rabbit holes to talk about, but for the past 8 months I've been investigating dialog and both sides. Trump is a deeply flawed man, but imo he's the best we have. That seems clear to me. I believe americans got swindled by the dnc, and I'm someone who didn't know a lick about politics before this germ warfare came into our country.

Tons of questions not answered.

How's everybody? Seen any good movies lately? LOL



That elusive hide-and-seek cow is at it again
Sadly for me I think it may be Biden. I've been down too many rabbit holes to talk about, but for the past 8 months I've been investigating dialog and both sides. Trump is a deeply flawed man, but imo he's the best we have. That seems clear to me. I believe americans got swindled by the dnc, and I'm someone who didn't know a lick about politics before this germ warfare came into our country.

Tons of questions not answered.

How's everybody? Seen any good movies lately? LOL
JOEL!!!!
*tackles*
MISSED YOU MAN!?!?!!
*slobbers uncontrollably in goofy surprise*



We've gone on holiday by mistake
Sadly for me I think it may be Biden. I've been down too many rabbit holes to talk about, but for the past 8 months I've been investigating dialog and both sides. Trump is a deeply flawed man, but imo he's the best we have. That seems clear to me. I believe americans got swindled by the dnc, and I'm someone who didn't know a lick about politics before this germ warfare came into our country.

Tons of questions not answered.

How's everybody? Seen any good movies lately? LOL
TV series, but was very impressed with the Queens Gambit on Netflix last week. Also enjoyed the Chicago 7 last night.
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What's really shocking to me is the quality of the candidates that the Democrats have fielded, or who have won the nomination.
Especially when there were some really viable options.

Like him or not, Yang made some solid points RE: we're going to have to deal with people losing jobs to tech. This is a real concern and it's coming fast. No one else is talking about it.

Also, I really like Tulsi Gabbard. She has more real experience than many others who made it further than she did. Great points RE: unnecessary wars + world policing.

There've been a lot of allegations regarding Trump's past behaviors, but no real evidence. There is ample evidence of Biden's malfeasance but no one seems to care.




There've been a lot of allegations regarding Trump's past behaviors, but no real evidence. There is ample evidence of Biden's malfeasance but no one seems to care.
To me it just seems like the dnc used the shiny, distracting umbrella of "vote orange bad out" to be able to convince ppl to vote Harris's ridiculous platform. Wishy wash on energy industry, play downs of introducing a more aggressive blending of socialism (2 days b4 election!), and just a general arrogance of everyone offering their ticket there has been proven worthless as career establishment politicians. Trump for me has been the punk rock president. The early punk, not the blink 182 variety.

Regardless of his alleged shady dealing with his money and utilizing tax loopholes, he wanted to save america from bad trade deals and end unnecessary wars. OK, sounds good, right? WRONG.

Is it?

4 nobel peace prize noms. Not too shabby. Peace in the middle east after decades of failed attempts by previous admins.

Brining jobs back (many argue this). Making us favored nation, lowering insulin prices, offering chouice for education. Standing against cancel culture, preserving american feats despite some spotty history. If you erase history, you never learn from mistakes, imo.

There's a lot to cover. I have been drinking the kool aid from the tap, though. Straight news briefings at the WH and capaign. Comparing it to what the dems have, or libertarians.

I've always figured I'd be a dem if I had to pick.

I was wrong.Not a modern dem, anyway.

Sorry for the rant.



Also, I really like Tulsi Gabbard. She has more real experience than many others who made it further than she did. Great points RE: unnecessary wars + world policing.
There is no country better suited to police the world than USA. We need USA to be the good policeman of the world.



You ready? You look ready.
The thing that really rubbed me the wrong way this time around was the way the left got the vote out. I mean, I remember a time when it was just about getting people to the polls and there wasn't any agenda tacked onto a lot of the campaigns to energize people to vote.

This election it seemed like every campaign that used to be impartial had placed a moral imperative on voting and the way in which it was presented showed that a lot of the backers of those campaigns had an agenda with who they wanted you to vote for and it came across in the language they used.

Yes, I still think voting is important. And yes, I think we still have a duty to energize voters to vote without hidden agendas. But when they start placing a morality judgment upon the need to vote I think it does a great disservice to voter autonomy and paints a very clear picture of who they think needs your vote.
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"This is that human freedom, which all boast that they possess, and which consists solely in the fact, that men are conscious of their own desire, but are ignorant of the causes whereby that desire has been determined." -Baruch Spinoza



The thing that really rubbed me the wrong way this time around was the way the left got the vote out.

when they start placing a morality judgment upon the need to vote I think it does a great disservice to voter autonomy and paints a very clear picture of who they think needs your vote.
The alternative was a a really easy target, so I assume that helped with the whole "moral high ground" pitch to us.



The thing that really rubbed me the wrong way this time around was the way the left got the vote out. .
They got the vote out all right - some districts have produced up to 200% votes - that means twice as many votes came in as there are registered voters for those areas!

What they are calling data dumps have come in with 100% votes for Biden - that is a statistical impossibility and could only be produced via alteration, manipulating votes or ballots, or some form of ballot harvesting.

Every crazy scheme predicted that the Left might try is being discovered, exposing the fact that they did try - and even some tricks no one foresaw.



There is no country better suited to police the world than USA. We need USA to be the good policeman of the world.
Why does America have to police the world? Who appointed us cops of the world?

Nice to see you again Joel. Hope you're safe and well.
11 months to the day since he last posted.

I can't wait to see that smug fake smile fall off his orange face when he finally loses this election and the state of New York sues him and his son for manipulating asset values.
I can’t wait not having to see that silly smirk of Jared Kushner’s. Creepy guy.

Human trafficking and opioid smuggling are way down.
Huh? Thought we had an opioid epidemic here.
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I’m here only on Mondays, Wednesdays & Fridays. That’s why I’m here now.



28 days...6 hours...42 minutes...12 seconds
They got the vote out all right - some districts have produced up to 200% votes - that means twice as many votes came in as there are registered voters for those areas!

What they are calling data dumps have come in with 100% votes for Biden - that is a statistical impossibility and could only be produced via alteration, manipulating votes or ballots, or some form of ballot harvesting.

Every crazy scheme predicted that the Left might try is being discovered, exposing the fact that they did try - and even some tricks no one foresaw.
I'd love to read those stats if you could provide them please.
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"A laugh can be a very powerful thing. Why, sometimes in life, it's the only weapon we have."

Suspect's Reviews



You ready? You look ready.
Why does America have to police the world? Who appointed us cops of the world?
Coca Cola!
Huh? Thought we had an opioid epidemic here.
Yeah, I don't know where he's pulling that info from but the number of overdoses in my area is the highest it has ever been and that number was reached in the first few months of the summer.

I suspect nationally we are going to see a disturbing surge of overdoses as the cause of death for 2020 when the data is finally tabulated. Right now the young are far more likely to die of an overdose than COVID.



Yeah, I don't know where he's pulling that info from but the number of overdoses in my area is the highest it has ever been and that number was reached in the first few months of the summer.
Same here. We’re in the middle of a drug corridor between Boston & New York.



Why does America have to police the world?
It doesn't have to, but it's nice of them if they do.
Who appointed us cops of the world?
USA sort of appointed itself after Second World War. Trump sort of backed off from this position slightly. His doctrine was peace through strength. He threatened to use US armed forces if some country misbehaves or he put economic sanctions on countries. So with big stick and candy Trump managed to facilitate more peace in the world. So maybe Trump didn't back off from policeman role after all.

USA doesn't conquer countries in literal sense. It implements democracy and leaves countries to their own devices.