Fifty Shades of Grey

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I have been sitting here thinking about how I feel about what you guys are debating for ten minutes. I still don't think I have landed on a definite thought about who I agree with. If I don't think Breaking Bad is creating meth cookers because Jessie and Walter are cool characters is it fair for me to think Fifty Shades is creating abusive men and submissive women just because I think the subject matter is stupid and the characters look dumb? I don't know. My war cry with art has always been that it reflects culture and doesn't inform it. Is that just me making excuses because I like stories about anti-heroes though? I'm not sure. Is it fair for me to condemn the art I have absolutely no interest in, and endorse that I do?

There is something to be said for tone. Again this is a slippery slope however. Gilligan never holds up a sign that says, Meth is bad. I personally don't think Walter's story arc makes it look enticing, but does it to some? I haven't heard a lot about Fifty Shades, but Filmspotting reviewed it this week and there does seem to be some character conflict there. I understand that the story is not all that nuanced, but is Fast And Furious? This is an old debate and one that will never be solved but it is worth talking about. I would love to be on the side of throw Fifty Shades in the trash, but I don't know if that would be fair to the argument. Instead I will just not go see it, and hope it goes away quietly.
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Chappie doesn't like the real world
Once again the difference there is that everyone understands that drug dealing is bad . You may like Walt, you may root for him but there is no misunderstanding that Walt isn't a good guy.

Is there that same understanding about Christian or does the movie serve to promote that old "I could fix him and that would make me so special" type mentality that is unfortunately true among so many girls and even women.

They difference here is that the romantic hero is a walking talking billboard for what as potential abuser says and does, but he is also the object of desire.

I used to man the phones at a woman's crisis center. We weren't allowed to council them but only to direct where to get help and also to inform the caller of the warning signs. I hear a lot of "yeah, but he only does that because [insert excuse here]. This film is doing more to romanticize those excuses.

Usually, I'm the first one to say that you shouldn't get your morals from movies and that they are pure fantasy but with this movie I think the fantasy is too real, the lines to blurred and what would in reality be an abuser of women being a romantic ideal is unsettling to me.



Chappie doesn't like the real world
Oh, another thing. I don't think 50 Shades is creating abusers in any sort of way. I don't know that I even think it's creating victims rather than reinforcing those beliefs and behaviors that allow victims of abuse to be abused.



I understand completely how you feel Godoggo. My ex works at a dometic abuse shelter and she shares your sensibilities on this subject. I tend to be in your guys camp but if I am honest with myself I am not sure why. I do think some people make excuses for and are enamored with criminal activity. I think the point that more people are acceptable of domestic violence because we still misinterpret it is a fair one. I am not sure the numbers are as skewed as you might think though.



Oh, another thing. I don't think 50 Shades is creating abusers in any sort of way. I don't know that I even think it's creating victims rather than reinforcing those beliefs and behaviors that allow victims of abuse to be abused.
This is a good way of putting it I think. I can get on board with that for sure.



Chappie doesn't like the real world
He was making a joke about 90s saying that Winter and I were attempting to speak for an entire group because we both know people in the BDSM community that are upset about the movie linking bondage to abusive personality types.



Registered User
Oh, another thing. I don't think 50 Shades is creating abusers in any sort of way. I don't know that I even think it's creating victims rather than reinforcing those beliefs and behaviors that allow victims of abuse to be abused.
"I believe the world was created in 6 days buy the God of the Bible". Beliefs are like ********, everybody has them.

I already mentioned that the possessive behavior is the prime source of conflict and the reason she ends the relationship, so this is still a non-sequiter. It's also an accurate portrayal of many relationships.

I do think some people make excuses for and are enamored with criminal activity. I think the point that more people are acceptable of domestic violence because we still misinterpret it is a fair one. I am not sure the numbers are as skewed as you might think though.
Criminal activity? No. People can admire the traits and characters qualities of film characters while mentally distinguishing between admiring a trait, and admiring the actual criminal behavior.

Someone for example can think Al Pacino's character in the Godfather is fascinating, without actually "admiring the mafia".



Registered User
Is there that same understanding about Christian or does the movie serve to promote that old "I could fix him and that would make me so special" type mentality that is unfortunately true among so many girls and even women.
Within reason bad character traits can be improved and reconciled (though that would ultimately have to be on the part of the one with the faults rather than the other) - in the film the behavior never ventured into extremes which were beyond reconciliation - not to mention she ends the relationship despite her attraction because she realized that the lifestyle was too risky for her.

They difference here is that the romantic hero is a walking talking billboard for what as potential abuser says and does, but he is also the object of desire.
That's how desire works from an evolutionary POV - desire is a biochemical attraction completely independent from some socially constructed definition of "abusive".

I used to man the phones at a woman's crisis center.
People tend to let their pre-disposed biases influence their objectivity.

We weren't allowed to council them but only to direct where to get help and also to inform the caller of the warning signs. I hear a lot of "yeah, but he only does that because [insert excuse here].
He did it because of dark personality traits - there's no "excuse for it", on the same not it was not extreme enough to put reconciliation out of the question.

This film is doing more to romanticize those excuses.
Prove it?

Usually, I'm the first one to say that you shouldn't get your morals from movies and that they are pure fantasy but with this movie I think the fantasy is too real, the lines to blurred and what would in reality be an abuser of women being a romantic ideal is unsettling to me.
The character's "romantic ideal" was because of his charismatic traits, unrelated to the dysfunction - essentially she's attracted to him for his desirable traits, and the dysfunction is what makes her torn between her attraction and her realization that the relationship was dysfunctional.

He was making a joke about 90s saying that Winter and I were attempting to speak for an entire group because we both know people in the BDSM community that are upset about the movie linking bondage to abusive personality types.
In the case of someone with an actual paraphilia by the APA standards I'd say there is a link; the idea that everyone who does light bondage on occasion has a fetish or dysfunction isn't true - however if someone is unable to achieve through any means other than bondage, that is a dysfunction.





Criminal activity? No. People can admire the traits and characters qualities of film characters while mentally distinguishing between admiring a trait, and admiring the actual criminal behavior.

Someone for example can think Al Pacino's character in the Godfather is fascinating, without actually "admiring the mafia".
I am so reluctant to engage you again.

I said some people. I was saying how different people engage in different ways. I never said if you like these characters you automatically admire their behavior. My whole point was most people don't.



Registered User
73% dropoff in sales, queue the void, thank god
$410 million on a $40 dollar budget? I don't think the creator's are worried about that

Just for comparison, Birdman (which was actually Oscar worthy material) made a paltry $70 million throughout its entire gross).

The people have spoken - political correctness is going the way of the Dark Ages, And 2 more films to come. If it wasn't for the idiosyncratic rants about this film I heard on this site and others, I never would have watched the movie. Thanks for the free PR



political correctness is going the way of the Dark Ages
If that's far from here, you should tag along.



Registered User
Unfortuneately, there are two more to come.
Fortunately I predict the PC crowd will continue to give this film free PR online, and help them to outdo this one in the box office.

It's grossed more in the first week alone than American Sniper has in it's entire run - already the top grossing movie of $2015. Hehehe



Registered User
If that's far from here, you should tag along.
Me and the other millions of people who've helped make this film the #1 movie in America already?

...versus some random guy on the internet with a hypocritical PC disdain for this film?

Uh yeah - I think the jury's spoken on this one hon. You're far, far in the minority here - right up there with the Al Sharpton crew who thinks the Oscars is a racist institution.

If you want perspective, go chat up some people at a local bar, or a party, or any real-life social situation other than this website - and tell he how many weird looks you get for expressing these views, while at the same time having the arrogance to assume 'defenders' of the film are a "minority"? You'd be laughed out of town.