Have you got a gun/would you kill someone?

I thought this was a good post that Yoda would have liked at least

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It is clearer, yes. Thanks.

I'm sure there's a degree to which everyone unconsciously plays down their own side's culpability, but to be clear, I'm saying something very narrow: I'm saying progressives disproportionately fall into this specific thing. There are absolutely things that conservatives are more prone to fall into, they're just different things. Happy to expound on them if that makes it feel less like partisan sniping.

I don't think this is really such a controversial or partisan idea, though; it makes perfect sense that different worldviews would be more or less susceptible to different intellectual pitfalls.

I mean, I can Google the exact quotes, but I can't imagine you haven't heard most of it by now. People telling Rubio that looking at him is like looking down the barrel of a gun again, the whole stunt implying he values each student's life at $1.05. This would be pretty extreme if you threw it at pretty much anyone, but it's particularly absurd when tossed at one of the few people actually standing there, taking the abuse, and still trying to forge a compromise.

Part of this probably isn't resolvable, because it seems like I can give examples of extreme rhetoric, and you'll tell me it's not extreme because the thing it's confronting is just that bad. Suffice to say, it's easy to justify anything if you start with the premise that the other side is just awful, even though (again) everybody thinks that, which is precisely why we have to be careful to argue from shared or neutral premises in the first place.

Fair enough.

I've heard people say that about the kids, too. I think that's pretty extreme. I don't think they're old or mature enough to consider the full measure of this debate or reliably express themselves in appropriate ways, however. And I definitely think lots of people want to manipulate them to their own ends in this debate and don't much care how it will effect them. You seem to, which is good, though the mere fact that you admit to wrestling with it suggests you understand the tension there.

I dig. No worries. Appreciate the response.

It's an unfortunate match, because when someone lists five or six things in quick succession I usually want to reply to each in turn, so when combined with the stream of consciousness stuff...ooo boy, the replies get out of hand quickly. Cynically, it's because most people who do that are just Gish Galloping or venting or whatever, but I realize for some it's just a habitual manner of communicating and not malicious or deceptive.

I think we can whittle this one back down to a reasonable size going forward, though, if there's even that much left to say.

I owe you a reply to a few other things from the previous post, too. Hopefully today or tomorrow, if it's easier to wait and reply to it all. I can probably cut it down since some of the things in the first post were addressed in the second.

Either way, will make a serious effort to cull this down to the essential points. Sorry if it's a little unwieldy.

Appreciate it. Some of the points have probably been debated enough. I would be happy to get back to the crux (at least what I think is the crux) of "should be we be looking to these kids as leaders in this movement". If I have it right your answer is "no because its wrong" and my answer is "ideally no because I worry about them but no one else can and its working!"

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Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies...

everyone needs a gun(s) the gun laws here are cr1Q
someday everyone will have guns..


people kill/hurt people
guns are just guns
you need protection from everyone/everything


whos gonna police the police..


Id kill everyone that stands in my way

Are you cool with the fact that a deadly weapon is just part of your life? I'm just curious because like i was saying to Yoda the idea of our already bad knife problem turning into a gun problem is terrifying to me.[/quote]

Who knows mang

Wish the early apes had discovered delicious coffee, would have probably saved us a lot of not great cups of coffee, i mean our coffee would have been pretty consistently solid!

Who knows mang [/quote]

What? bad knife problem..? I carry a knife everywhere I go now...
you wouldn't have any problem carrying a knife and or gun etc if you
lived the dangers of reality

What? Let's not be Assumy Assumenson here kinda makes you seem dumb.

Assumy Assumenson!

Who are you to tell everyone what they need? I'm serious. You must be pretty important. Same thing goes for your last comment. That's a pretty negative outlook on life. I'm sorry you feel that way. It must be a terrible burden to carry.

what...? I don't know what that means...

dumb...? how..?


me,a 29 yr old man who is normal/sane (with proof) ... you need a gun for self defense... against EVERYTHING that tries to hurt you...
its NOT an outlook...its reality... you live in a tellytubbie world then?
I don't feel.. I see/know the reality of everything... I don't carry anything,except what I know exists...what Ive seen and NOT seen...
IF ANY of you actually knew me,met me,known me pretty well you'd totally be saying the opposite,but none of you have,have you...
don't make fast assumptions of people til you've met and verified what/who they are..

You made a ridiculous and i might add wrong assumption based on practically nothing.

What about all of the people that live full and content lifes without ever touching a gun?
[/quote]

I don't own a gun.

Well I'll be. Women not shaving their armpits must have been desirable in the art deco period. Apologies for OT.

Back to guns - I cant answer such a hypothetical, I've decided. Would I kill someone? I can say doubtful, but who knows what tomorrow would bring. I live in a quiet suburban community where nothing happens until a poor young kid got killed 2 minutes walk down the road in the early hours of the morning. A gun wouldnt have saved him from whatever he was running from - he died instantly, apparently, from running straight into a parked garbage truck and decapitating himself. Sorry for the graphicness of such a post. Yes I did just make that word up.

Another time a gun was used in this 'burb a young guy shot his bestfriend in the head then blew his brains out infront of his mother as she stood on the staircase in horror. I didnt know the best friends but probably talked to them in passing, but I do know the mum and older brother who had to fly back from the other side of the country to console his mum who was out of her mind for quite some time. Absolutely tragic murder suicide that happened on an ASSumption. If the mum had a gun could she have stopped it? Once again, doubtful. She wasnt in the main part of the house when her son was killed but ran out when she heard the first blast. So would a gun have helped her? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

Third example just because I like 3s - A young woman was abseiling into the bush at the end of my street. She fell and impaled herself on a broken branch that went straight through her femoral artery, then exsanguinated. I didnt know her because she's not from this village, but I do know her then bestie.

Onemore because it's a very important number and I just cant help myself - a dear, sweet older gentleman I knew when I was mixed up with the dog show crowd died instantly when a stray bullet hit him in the head. He was minding his own business eating a sandwich late at night while having his obligatory rest (professional truck driver). I have not stopped grieving for him and I dare say the rest of the people who knew him have not either. This man did so much for kids in need, even taking his dogs to visit them in shelters and children's wards at xmas, easter etc, and for women generally. Bob was always there to help his wife's girlfriends or anyone else when they were in trouble. A couple of young men got into an argument in a bottle shop carpark, two streetsaway and Bob was dead. Why! A gun would not have helped him. Vale Bob. I still miss you and hope we meet again one day.

OK that's enough. The room just filled up with dust (I stole that line from Yoda!!! Thanks, Yods)

That's funny, because I was wondering if that's what it was supposed to be, or just an awkwardly drawn line illustrating the underarm!