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Christopher Nolan after TDKR

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Is there anyone left who likes Nolan's films? I see a lot of hate, backlash after TDKR which was too much criticized..

What were your thoughts on that film?



Do you enjoy his movies or you hate him? What are your thoughts?

I believe he's in the same level as these directors:

George Lucas, Sam Mendes, Villenueve, Cameron, Fincher, Jackson, Del Toro, Inarritu, McTiernan



This should definitely have gone in Actors, Awards, & Directors. Also, we've got a lot of threads on Nolan already (just search for "Nolan") touching on the same question(s). Probably best to bump one of those.



This should definitely have gone in Actors, Awards, & Directors. Also, we've got a lot of threads on Nolan already (just search for "Nolan") touching on the same question(s). Probably best to bump one of those.
I also asked about TDKR, that's why i posted it here.

Couldn't edit the title though,

What are your thoughts anyway? I think a new thread would be justified since it can get more of a discussion,



I thought TDKR was pretty weak, frustratingly so. Begins showed such promise.
I don't dislike Nolan but I rarely watch his films and I haven't seen maybe his last 3 because he almost always disappoints me. "Disappointment" is very different from "hate".



I thought TDKR was pretty weak, frustratingly so. Begins showed such promise.
I don't dislike Nolan but I rarely watch his films and I haven't seen maybe his last 3 because he almost always disappoints me. "Disappointment" is very different from "hate".
There are some people, mostly Marvel fans or Burton fans that hate anything he does and think that even Batman and Robin is better than TDKR.

So yeah, I’d say he’s pretty hated (not on this site I guess).

TDKR is one of his best... why people hate it so much :/



Can't even see where the knob is
I think Nolan is a great ideas man, a solid director and a mediocre writer. He wouldn't know how to write characters and dialogue if his life depended on it, but he does occasionally manage to strike a decent pacing. But then again, so do Brett Ratner and Paul W.S. Anderson, so that's nothing to brag about.

Like I said, Nolan is an ideas man, a concept man, and that is by FAR his greatest strength. It's the reason why his films are considered events by some, like M. Night Shyamalan's early movies or all of Tarantino's movies are considered events. Personally, I'm not really falling for it, in Nolan's case, but I can see why people would be enthusiastic about his output. He brings something new to the table, even if it doesn't work.

As for TDKR, I strongly dislike the entire trilogy - yes, even its sacred cow middle chapter - for myriad reasons, but THAT movie is just the worst. Boring plot, laughably unmenacing villains, seemingly disinterested lead actor, bad dialogue, shoddy fight choreography and, worst of all, Anne Hathaway. I really have nothing good to say about the movie at all. I guess you have to be a Batman fan to truly appreciate what Nolan was trying to accomplish with this one? Hmm.
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I have the Batman trilogy and Inception on Blu Ray and have seen Memento and The Prestige.
TDK is the better of the trilogy but that just comes down to Heath Ledger's performance which I think was outstanding.
His IMDB ratings for directing are pretty good so while some might not like his offerings some of us quite enjoy them.
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I also asked about TDKR, that's why i posted it here.

Couldn't edit the title though
What was the title supposed to be?

What are your thoughts anyway? I think a new thread would be justified since it can get more of a discussion,
A lot of my thoughts are in the other threads I alluded to, which is why I thought (and still think) this is probably better elsewhere.

I don't follow the "more of a discussion" part, but in my experience if something isn't getting discussed in an existing topic, simply turning it into a new one generally isn't a solution, either.



I thought TDKR was pretty weak, frustratingly so. Begins showed such promise.
I don't dislike Nolan but I rarely watch his films and I haven't seen maybe his last 3 because he almost always disappoints me. "Disappointment" is very different from "hate".
This is more or less where I stand. I also hadn't seen his last 3, until I saw Interstellar last year, and that film really wasn't very good either.

But going back to The Dark Knight Rises, I think "disappointing" is the appropriate word. The film is, for the most part, technically sound and well acted, but Nolan goes overboard and out of control in so many ways that should be "easy" to rein in or control... His dialogues are too convoluted, preachy, or just plain clunky. The narrative symbolism of "The Pit" was too in-your-face. The logistics of Gotham being in this chaos for months was too far out there. The integration of both Selina Kyle and Miranda Tate as Wayne's romantic interests was forced and unnecessary, and the execution of the big "reveal" about Tate lacked any surprise or edge.

For what it's worth, I love Memento and The Prestige, but the whole Dark Knight trilogy is pretty much at the bottom of his filmography for me... above Interstellar.
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I think Nolan is a great ideas man, a solid director and a mediocre writer. He wouldn't know how to write characters and dialogue if his life depended on it, but he does occasionally manage to strike a decent pacing. But then again, so do Brett Ratner and Paul W.S. Anderson, so that's nothing to brag about.

Like I said, Nolan is an ideas man, a concept man, and that is by FAR his greatest strength. It's the reason why his films are considered events by some, like M. Night Shyamalan's early movies or all of Tarantino's movies are considered events. Personally, I'm not really falling for it, in Nolan's case, but I can see why people would be enthusiastic about his output. He brings something new to the table, even if it doesn't work.

As for TDKR, I strongly dislike the entire trilogy - yes, even its sacred cow middle chapter - for myriad reasons, but THAT movie is just the worst. Boring plot, laughably unmenacing villains, seemingly disinterested lead actor, bad dialogue, shoddy fight choreography and, worst of all, Anne Hathaway. I really have nothing good to say about the movie at all. I guess you have to be a Batman fan to truly appreciate what Nolan was trying to accomplish with this one? Hmm.
I think decent or good writer would be a fair assessment...

Prestige, Memento, inception, Dunkirk, following, Batman begins all have good writing. So does The Dark Knight.

Batman is my favorite character but yh I always loved tdkr tbh

What was the title supposed to be?


A lot of my thoughts are in the other threads I alluded to, which is why I thought (and still think) this is probably better elsewhere.

I don't follow the "more of a discussion" part, but in my experience if something isn't getting discussed in an existing topic, simply turning it into a new one generally isn't a solution, either.
Post TDKR

Yh but time passes so idk if you think the same stuff.



Sorry, that's the whole title, or appended to the current title, or something else? Please be specific for things like title edits.

Yh but time passes so idk if you think the same stuff.
That's true/fair, but also something people can ask in existing threads. It's not a big deal, I just think in this particular case it's been extremely well-tread already. And yeah, either way, goes in Actors, Awards, and Directors for sure. I'd just generally like people to be in the habit of minding thread placement and checking existing topics first.

All that said, I don't think I agree with the premise in the OP: "Is there anyone left who likes Nolan's films?" Obviously yes. The fact that we have a (fairly predictable) backlash to his popularity, where people maybe feel a need to "overcorrect" for what they feel is excessive mainstream praise, doesn't really come close to obscuring all the love he still gets and (mostly) deserves, IMO.



Sorry, that's the whole title, or appended to the current title, or something else? Please be specific for things like title edits.


That's true/fair, but also something people can ask in existing threads. It's not a big deal, I just think in this particular case it's been extremely well-tread already. And yeah, either way, goes in Actors, Awards, and Directors for sure. I'd just generally like people to be in the habit of minding thread placement and checking existing topics first.

All that said, I don't think I agree with the premise in the OP: "Is there anyone left who likes Nolan's films?" Obviously yes. The fact that we have a (fairly predictable) backlash to his popularity, where people maybe feel a need to "overcorrect" for what they feel is excessive mainstream praise, doesn't really come close to obscuring all the love he still gets and (mostly) deserves, IMO.
Christopher Nolan after TDKR.

I don’t know what to bump. Anyways, I see some full-haters that genuinely believe Batman and Robin is better than dark knight or inception. That’s why I was confused.

I always thought that until Interstellar, Nolan was widely liked and had little to no hater except some marvel guys...

Was it the second film in a row not as good as inception or Memento etc the reason of him be considered lower?

I was just thinking about this, I did rewatch TDKR yesterday so I dunno why it seems like that film got a divisive crowd after years



Nolan hated? I've always considered him to be one of the most overrated directors out there.

Personally, I liked Interstellar. TDK was trash and the rest of the ones I've seen have been mediocre. Memento perhaps deserves a rewatch. TDKR I didn't even bother with.
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That elusive hide-and-seek cow is at it again
IF Yoda is approving the thread to carry forward, then I'll add that I'm burned out on Nolan. I rewatched the Batman trilogy last month. Parts were better than I remember; parts were worse than I remember. IMO, I think The Prestige and Memento might be his best. Or at least most balanced movies?

Batman Begins gets points for the reboot, but Bale's coughing and too cropped action kind of dulls it up for me. I respect the potential and what it actually accomplished reviving a darker Batman, but I think I'd still rather watch Burton's. Could be nostalgia, but I don't enjoy Nolan's as much. Inception, Interstellar, and Tenet, to me, represent points on a curve arcing ever upward into ego-driven ridiculousness (and that's something for me to say, as I consider myself more a sci-fi fan). People love it, I give you that. The topics are interesting. But it comes all down to form over function; style over substance, where the former seems to always get more attention than the latter.

I'm not sure Dunkirk really qualifies for good writing, either. If I remember correctly, that was a pretty minimal film apart from its time-lapse concept. But, as Yoda noted a few times, there's already a thread for that. Huh. I wonder if the Simpsons did it?


I don't think I addressed TDKR. That might be the response tho.
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I've not seen his Batman films, I've only seen these:

Dunkirk
Interstellar
Inception
The Prestige
Memento

I could care less about what feels like Nolan's 'contrived mind trip movies', I.E. Memento and Inception. Dunkirk was a bore, then again most recent war films have been. I did like Interstellar and gave it a 4/5 but in retrospect I think that was a bit generous.

The one film of his that I thought was pretty damn good was The Prestige. Now that's a movie!...I wish he would get back to that style of story telling instead of making films that seems like he wants to be this generations Cecil B. DeMille...Nolan seems to be making films that are a testament to himself.



Not gonna touch your personal opinion but anyway yeah, he’s slowly becoming the most hated and downplayed director in the internet.

It seems like any director who gets put up, gets prop up and magically becomes a master of filmmaking, just because some have an hate boner with his realism or movies.

Speaking off others boards obviously,



I don't see what it matters if he has haters out there because who doesn't? Success brings hate, it's science. And a particularly dumb science. At least he's already established himself as a top tier director, and gets pretty much carte blanche to make whatever he likes, so he'll be fine. And when he makes a flop, he will have no end of rabid fanboys to prop him up. They got him through pseudo philosophical fluff like Interstellar, they'll pull him through Tenet as well I imagine. Regardless of the haters.


Personally, I think he's fine. He's made a few movies I don't like too much (Prestige, Interstellar), some I think are alright (Dark Knight, Rises, Insomnia, Following), other that are good (Inception, Batman Begins) and then most importantly Memento, which is pretty brilliant and easily his best.


If people want to overact and act like he is a cancer to cinema, let them. It's a pretty pointless take, because I don't think he is either good enough or bad enough to earn any passionate vitriol. He's fine and in the end, history will probably remember him as being exactly that. And that's fine too.



I think the "nolan hate" has become a joke in of itself. For me I started posting on message boards around 2012 and I remember anytime he got discussed it was people trolling for the sake of trolling. A kid picking on his little brother. I catch myself doing it now because it just makes me chuckle a bit remembering the absurdity that arose from those posts.



Also answers to Jabba
Lets be a bit more specific about Nolan's body of work:
Following, Memento, Insomnia, Batman Begins, The Prestige, The Dark Knight, Inception, The Dark Knight Rises, Insterstellar, Dunkirk, Tenet

Out of the 11 films he has made, I only haven't seen Tenet yet, so my thoughts will be focused on the rest.

Following was your typical good independent breakaway film. Much like Blood Simple by the Coens' it showed early promise and earned Nolan a chance to work with bigger studios.

Memento is for me by far Nolan's best work and it is mostly because of the structure that he chose for the story that made it so successful an idea. Told in a linear way, the story is far less impressive even if his brother's concept (Jonathan Nolan wrote a short story Memento is based on) can create plenty of situations for interesting events to unfold. However the decision Christopher took to use a complex, yet clearly defined timeline is one of those rare, brilliant calls that make a film stand out.

After Memento, Nolan steadily becomes more proficient in his craft, working with bigger budgets and more well known actors. Insomnia, featured Pacino - who I have a soft spot for- but is utterly flavorless and feels like the sort of film you would make as a filler until you get your next good idea, just to stay relevant. I am not aware of the details, but the script for it was written 5 years before the film was made and it is possible it was one of those scripts nobody was excited about but it was sitting on someone's desk collecting dust until it was finally used when a cash inflow was needed.

From Batman Begins and on, is when we see - at least in my submission- what I would call Nolan as an established director. He can pick his projects, initially piggyback on the marketability of Batman as a character, and eventually become someone whom the studios know can make them money. For the Batman trilogy as a whole, I will say that it is one of those films that one easily and falsely will either absolutely adore or passionately hate. This is because it takes on an established character that everyone has certain ideas or expectations about. Naturally you cannot justify everyone's wildly diverse opinions, so the outcome tends to polarize way more than it should. What I consider undeniable is that it is a departure from how we had previously seen these characters treated, as action sprinkled with a lot of bad comedy (the last Batman film before that was the horrendous Batman & Robin after all), and instead we see a darker side of superheroes, which laid the ground for the films that dominate the box office nowadays. I honestly doubt we could get the cinematic universes of DC or Marvel until somebody came along to show that this approach could work. Whether that's is actually a good thing, it is up to the viewer. As a parting comment, there is a huge drawback these types of films have that gives them a distinct disadvantage against other movies, and it is the same reason so many people flock to see them: familiarity with the character. Nobody with a modicum of familiarity with the stories was surprised at any of the characters' arks in those films, because the moment you utter someone's name, you can immediately place them in that limiting binary spectrum of good or bad. The examples are plentiful so I will briefly only mention one. You see Harvey Dent in his first scene, not as a virtuous character wanting to clean up a city as a DA, but as a time bomb waiting to explode since you already know he is the villainous Twoface. This takes so much away from the viewing experience as it immediately slaps a tag on the character. It would be similar to having a seemingly decent character in a random film named Sneaky McSinister and then expect audiences to be surprised as his journey leads him to darker pastures.

Between the 2nd and 3rd installments of the trilogy, Nolan made The Prestige and Inception, two films that were again technically sound and well acted, but for me have come to highlight Nolan's two biggest weaknesses: foreshadowing and complex plots. Although both can be considered good films, they both respectively suffer from the aforementioned problems. In the case of the Prestige, foreshadowing was done in such an incredibly obvious way, that any experienced viewer could pick up on the twist which was the film's climax from the first act. Subtlety goes a long way in such films and in my mind, no film can be a better example of this than -the also polarizing- Fight Club. After watching those two films, the later has you scratching your head thinking How did I miss that? whilst the former makes you think How could anyone miss that?

Inception, although based firmly on a decent idea and fresh take on the it-was-all-a-dream cliche, gets fuzzy and tiring resting on layers upon layers of complexity and ironically rehashes the cliche it tries to avoid, by being revealed towards the third act that it-was-all-a-dream...within-a-dream. It is by no means neither a bad film nor one that is especially hard to follow, but it is definitely -for lack of a better term- needlessly convoluted.

The reason I mentioned the aspects of foreshadowing and complex storytelling as Nolan's weaknesses, is because they come together as the perfect storm in Interstellar. More often than not, time travel stories end in the same way: that monumental event that took place to set the whole film up was initiated by the protagonist himself/herself...just in the future. From La Jetee to Predestination and anywhere in between, we have seen this play out time and time again, and Nolan's use of foreshadowing makes it so obvious that it really takes away from the experience, even more than in the case of The Prestige. Sprinkling high end physics in the film gives it a distinct taste that someone who appreciates scientific concepts -like myself- would enjoy, and it certainly makes the hero's journey more colorful, but in the end does little to supplement the story and mostly serves as a way to make it more perplexed.

If you have ever played poker you may be able to recognize the conundrum I find myself in. Invest a lot of chips in a mediocre hand early on and you have to see it through to the end. I am now about 40 minutes into this post realizing that you are probably skipping this section altogether hoping for a tldr version. More on that later...

Dunkrik is as close as we have ever gotten to a Nolan passion project. Written by himself it seems like he was finally confident enough to abandon his previous tricks and try his hand at something new to him. Definitely a more artistic film that the rest of his work, it takes a page out of Malick's Thin Red Line to create a pacifist WWII film. However, Nolan being Nolan he feels he does need a gimmick of some sort, something to set his film apart, so he cuts it into three overlapping segments, one for each of the branches of the armed forces. Alas, I think the true great move Dunkirk has pulled off is putting you in the position of the soldier and his unknown destiny. You don't get to see what the Axis powers are discussing in their HQ in order to have some idea what to expect. That may not be fresh, as from the Dirty Dozen to Saving Private Ryan, many films have employed the same tool, but Nolan takes it a step further, by not even showing an enemy on screen for the duration of the film. The threat remains invisible and always looming, which makes for some eerily thrilling situations. The transitions to different segments of the Armed Forces dulls the effect a bit though, as not everyone is facing the same danger at the same time, which means at times, pacing suffers as a result.

All things considered, after the Batman Trilogy and barring Tenet, which again I haven't seen (although it seems like it is a return to his familiar style), Nolan has taken a single departure from what we have come to expect of him in Dunkirk. Perhaps the reason it may feel as a decline in quality to the OP and others, is a form of saturation from being exposed enough times to the relatively limited arrows in his quiver. That is not a unique characteristic of Nolan but quite the opposite. Most directors out there are a one-trick-pony and no matter how well you perform it, if you keep doing the same trick over the course of decades, fewer and fewer people are going to be impressed by it.


tldr: There is no tldr to be had. Life rarely works that way. Do you think I wanted to write such a long post for a director I am mostly indifferent about? I got lost in a sea of drowsiness and caffeine unable to realize what I was getting myself into until it was too late to stop. Join me in this unnecessary, half-baked, semi-knowledgeable analysis or don't. But don't expect a shortcut.



I think the "nolan hate" has become a joke in of itself. For me I started posting on message boards around 2012 and I remember anytime he got discussed it was people trolling for the sake of trolling. A kid picking on his little brother. I catch myself doing it now because it just makes me chuckle a bit remembering the absurdity that arose from those posts.
I could understand some fair criticism or people simply not liking his films but Batman and Robin above TDKR or inception being worse than Nightmare 2 etc seems pure trolling..

I see some people who have some kind of vendetta with never voting for Nolan and hating him.

Fortunately, not on this site.