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But even if he doesn't physically/sexually abuse her, it doesn't matter. The most abusive relationships I have seen from people I know have not involved someone having a hand laid on them. They have included: breaking into someone's personal e-mail and sending messages "from" them to others; making threats of self-harm; using children as emotional weapons (saying in front of a child things like "No daddy can't stay because mommy has decided she's mad at him"; not showing up for custody visits and saying "I wanted to come but your mom doesn't want me there"; literally not picking them up from a summer camp so often that the camp took the children to a police station where the police then called mom); calling their workplace and/or embarrassing them intentionally in front of co-worker; etc.
So very true. Gaslighting is another form of abuse I’ve mentioned before. The criminal court system in Connecticut where I live takes all this very seriously. A spouse/partner can be arrested for verbal abuse & harassment & after an arraignment is ordered to stand trial before a judge. The injured party is immediately granted an Order of Protection for a time certain at the arraignment. The OOP can be extended if the judge so decides.

I think I also mentioned that one of the police officers where I live told me that the non-physical abuse almost always leads to physical abuse eventually. He sees it all the time.
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I’m here only on Mondays, Wednesdays & Fridays. That’s why I’m here now.



Depends on which state she lives in here in America. If she lives on the west coast she might get half. If she lives on the east coast she might get an equitable distribution.

If she lives where property owned by either party before the marriage is off the table, then she won’t succeed.

Eleven years of marriage might not be considered substantial depending on where she lives.

But, good luck to her!
I mean, as to The Invisible Man, I don’t have a clue where the house is. I’m sure more attentive people might have noticed. But obviously, that was a general point to note that women can be calculating.

And of course, you’re totally right, it does differ massively depending on which jurisdiction we’re talking. I don’t know if you’ve read about the London High Court’s biggest divorce case, the Akhmedovs? The son was briefly a client of my firm’s, until we wisely chose to part ways just before **** hit the fan. The Akhmedovs were only legally married between 1993 and 2003 (or until 2000 as per his version of events) and she classifies herself as a ‘housewife’. Never worked a day in her life. Also, if you believe our ex-client (which I don’t), she cheated on his father in his (her husband’s) bed... She chose to conduct the proceedings in London for obvious reasons (as in, everyone is scared of him back home).

Well, she won 450 million quid and dear hubby’s superyacht with everything on it. Which is to say, you never know...



I mean, as to The Invisible Man, I don’t have a clue where the house is. I’m sure more attentive people might have noticed. But obviously, that was a general point to note that women can be calculating.
I responded to your hypothetical of a 19 year old divorcing at age 30.

Movie was filmed in Oz, but was supposed to be San Francisco.

“Women can be calculating”? Can we change that to “humans”?



I responded to your hypothetical of a 19 year old divorcing at age 30.
I mean, you’re right. I try to be specific, but on that occasion, it was a clear hyperbole.


“Women can be calculating”? Can we change that to “humans”?
Deal.



All she desires as a character is to get out of the relationship, you have convinced me Is that all it is? All I’m getting is ‘no, this character is not crazy’. But then this is where I will again readily admit this is something I’ve always hated. I hated A Beautiful Mind. So, perhaps you got to the bottom of it and I have reservations about it because underneath the invisibility-cloak-gimmick exterior, it boils down to the ‘Am I crazy?’ narrative.
Thank you for this reply, because I feel like I now have a much better handle on your issue with the film.

I did consider her emotional journey compelling and interesting. She goes from being someone who is afraid, to being someone who is tentatively exploring freedom (believing he is dead), to thinking she may be crazy (because he's dead, right? But someone is whispering her name), to knowing she isn't crazy but not being able to prove it to anyone else, to having to figure out how to take control of the situation herself.'

For me, that "am I imagining this or is this real?" feeling is one of horror. And even if we the audience know she isn't crazy, I felt that Moss did a great job of portraying those emotional shifts. Just as in a film where someone is realizing vampires or werewolves are real--we the audience already know the answer, but it can be compelling watching someone go through that realization.

So for you, this emotional journey alone did not hook you into the story. I was content not knowing how Adrian first wooed her or the nature of their relationship before things went bad, because I felt that I understood well enough the dynamics of their relationship and how it informed all of the characters' actions.



she classifies herself as a ‘housewife’. Never worked a day in her life.

Well, she won 450 million quid and dear hubby’s superyacht with everything on it. Which is to say, you never know...
There is a flip side to this, which is that some men consider it a status symbol that their wives do not have jobs OR they have some "old-fashioned" beliefs about whether women should even have jobs.

And many women who are never more than "housewives" do a ton of labor like laundry, housekeeping, accounting, child-rearing, child-bearing, grocery shopping, and so on. I know that you're talking more of a "sit by the pool while the 'help' does the work" housewife, but there are people who technically never have a job but do a TON of labor.

There is actually a law that gives payments to women whose husbands had jobs with pensions from like 1950-something to 1970-something. And it is to protect women whose husbands worked while they were housewives and then the husband divorces them and you end up with a woman in her 50s or 60s who has never had an income and thus gets no payments.

I think part of Adrian's problem was that he didn't find himself a woman who would be content to sit by the pool all day and be willing to exchange freedom for comfort.



I wasn't impressed by the first part, hope the 2nd will be much better. If you wanna watch something like this movie take a look at Gone Girl (2014).
Exactly. It succeeds at every level.



Thank you for this reply, because I feel like I now have a much better handle on your issue with the film...
It’s strange if took me so long to verbalise it, but there we go.

...For me, that "am I imagining this or is this real?" feeling is one of horror. And even if we the audience know she isn't crazy, I felt that Moss did a great job of portraying those emotional shifts. Just as in a film where someone is realizing vampires or werewolves are real--we the audience already know the answer, but it can be compelling watching someone go through that realization.
This is a curious analogy, I can’t fault it. What did you think about Soderbergh’s Unsane, if you’ve seen it? I feel this film is a 100 per cent on what we’re talking about now, with a very similar atmosphere but none of the invisibility stunt gimmicks to divert the viewer’s attention away from the ‘Am I crazy?’ narrative.

I admit my approach to this is maybe a bit reductive. I would like to be able to become as emotionally invested in these narratives as I do in others, but so far, something has been preventing me. It might also be the fact that I’m a relativist and think it’s very hard to judge what ‘sane’ means in practical terms. I agree with you (if I understood correctly) that it is to the film’s credit that we already know she’s not actually crazy, as in the werewolves analogy (i.e. we as the audience definitely sense from the get-go that she’s in the right - there’s also the meta-spoiler of us knowing the damn thing is called The Invisible Man for a reason).

So for you, this emotional journey alone did not hook you into the story. I was content not knowing how Adrian first wooed her or the nature of their relationship before things went bad, because I felt that I understood well enough the dynamics of their relationship and how it informed all of the characters' actions.
Indeed. Again, that is possibly reductionist of me. There’s also something that you touch on above which is that I don’t see these films quite as ‘proper’ horror. I think I’ll either get into it eventually when the time is right, or cross that sub-genre off as something I’m not in a position to appreciate, for some internal reasons.



This is a curious analogy, I can’t fault it. What did you think about Soderbergh’s Unsane, if you’ve seen it? I feel this film is a 100 per cent on what we’re talking about now, with a very similar atmosphere but none of the invisibility stunt gimmicks to divert the viewer’s attention away from the ‘Am I crazy?’ narrative.
I thought that the film was very mediocre. I never actually felt that it was a question with the main character's sanity, and I also found many aspects of it SO unbelievable--like the idea that male and female patients would be housed in the same bedroom and that a woman would be tied to a bed and then left unattended in a room with male mental health patients. I get that the facility was meant to be poorly run, but that's a step too far.

I mean, did you feel like you needed more from the film to understand that she was traumatized from her relationship? Like CiCi, we only have her word that the relationship was abusive.

I liked the invisibility set-pieces because for me it really hammered home just how bad of a position she is in. If someone came to you and said that an invisible person just choked them, what would you say? Is there any chance in the world you would believe them? I thought those scenes were effective because CiCi can't tell herself that maybe she is imagining it (the way you might if you caught a glimpse of someone or thought you heard a voice).

It might also be the fact that I’m a relativist and think it’s very hard to judge what ‘sane’ means in practical terms. I agree with you (if I understood correctly) that it is to the film’s credit that we already know she’s not actually crazy, as in the werewolves analogy (i.e. we as the audience definitely sense from the get-go that she’s in the right - there’s also the meta-spoiler of us knowing the damn thing is called The Invisible Man for a reason).
Right. My attitude with this movie is very much something like what you get in Fright Night or Bad Moon. Watching someone come to accept this supernatural/impossible thing is the journey you go on with them. And in this case, "sanity" merely means a correct understanding of the physical reality of events, ie is Adrian alive? Is he in the house? Is he here even though you can't see him?

And where I see us as the audience getting pulled in is when we do not know if Adrian is there. For example, there were at least two scenes where CiCi held back from saying something because she thought Adrian might be in the room. And both times, we as the audience never found out if he was there. It creates a nice friction because you want her to speak up, but you understand her fear. You don't know if she is making the right choice or not. Maybe my favorite thing in a horror movie is when you don't know whether or not the character is doing the right thing.



I mean, you’re right. I try to be specific, but on that occasion, it was a clear hyperbole.
Just noticed you meant “hypothetical”. Auto-correct, no doubt.

And many women who are never more than "housewives" do a ton of labor like laundry, housekeeping, accounting, child-rearing, child-bearing, grocery shopping, and so on. I know that you're talking more of a "sit by the pool while the 'help' does the work" housewife, but there are people who technically never have a job but do a TON of labor.
Unpaid slavery I always call it.



Just noticed you meant “hypothetical”. Auto-correct, no doubt.
No, I meant ‘hyperbole’, in the sense that 19 and 30 might have been exaggerated, but the general idea still applied. Upon reflection, Russian women (as the one at tue heart of the court case) would aim for precisely that timeline re: marriage and lucrative divorce. It is, of course, also hypothetical since I’m not basing the example on anyone in particular. Well, almost.



Unpaid slavery I always call it.
I think that there just needs to be more recognition of the value of labor in our country (and the world) that is unpaid or technically not a job--and that goes for men and women.

Like, being pregnant and bearing a child is, to my mind, a job. You honestly could not pay me enough right now to be pregnant. It is physical labor that literally does not stop for months.

I think that when we talk about people who "don't work" or "don't have a job", we need to make a big distinction between people who are putting in unpaid labor (like someone renovating a home or taking care of a child) versus someone who sits on the couch all day and eats chips. If someone is doing something during the day that you would otherwise have to pay for (laundry, teaching, childcare, cooking, cleaning, yard work, etc), that person is doing a job.

This report is interesting/depressing.



... versus someone who sits on the couch all day and eats chips.
I don’t care if someone wants to waste their life doing this, but only so long that my taxes are not supporting this.



I don’t care if someone wants to waste their life doing this, but only so long that my taxes are not supporting this.
I think that there will always be moochers in any large system, so I'm at peace with it. I think that the benefits of supporting people who genuinely cannot work because of physical/mental issues or other mitigating circumstances far outweighs the frustration of knowing that some people are gaming the system.