Vote on the next countdown (Feb. 2023)

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What should the next countdown be?
47.37%
27 votes
War
35.09%
20 votes
Noir
35.09%
20 votes
Musicals
22.81%
13 votes
Romance
57 votes. You may not vote on this poll




I mean at a certain point we'll run out of alternatives.

But real talk, I think maybe long-term it makes sense to decide that some of these are more focused, specialty lists, and to have a little less pomp and circumstance, maybe a host who hand-selects a panel of people who've expressed significant interest, make it a top 25 or something, and just do the whole process slightly differently. That would be my suggestion, at least.

So you would do what you end up doing in most of these countdowns and just reorganizing films that already showed up in other countdowns.



So you would do what you end up doing in most of these countdowns and just reorganizing films that already showed up in other countdowns.
You say "showed up in other countdowns" as if it were an obvious or inherent problem for everyone. It isn't. It's a problem for you, and presumably anyone else for whom the countdowns are valued primarily as a way to discover or recognize new films.

It's totally reasonable to care about that, and to value the countdowns primarily for that. What isn't reasonable is assuming everyone else feels the same way, suggesting it's a universal problem rather than an idiosyncratic one. People also care about seeing how the group's tastes change over time, or seeing how films that have shown up on more general countdowns will place in genre-specific ones, or vice-versa. The fact that some random musical placed 97th in a decade list nine years ago doesn't tell us anything about how it'll stack up in a musical-focused list now.

Also, you've made this objection before, and I've replied to it before, and that's usually where it gets dropped. If you want to discuss it, cool, but that means replying to my reply, and not just waiting until the next countdown to copy-paste the same initial complaint, never moving the conversation forward or addressing any counters to it.



You say "showed up in other countdowns" as if it were an obvious or inherent problem for everyone. It isn't. It's a problem for you, and presumably anyone else for whom the countdowns are valued primarily as a way to discover or recognize new films.

It's totally reasonable to care about that, and to value the countdowns primarily for that. What isn't reasonable is assuming everyone else feels the same way, suggesting it's a universal problem rather than an idiosyncratic one. People also care about seeing how the group's tastes change over time, or seeing how films that have shown up on more general countdowns will place in genre-specific ones, or vice-versa. The fact that some random musical placed 97th in a decade list nine years ago doesn't tell us anything about how it'll stack up in a musical-focused list now.

Also, you've made this objection before, and I've replied to it before, and that's usually where it gets dropped. If you want to discuss it, cool, but that means replying to my reply, and not just waiting until the next countdown to copy-paste the same initial complaint, never moving the conversation forward or addressing any counters to it.

I find this post and the PM you sent me to be highly unacceptable and a complete abuse of your authority on this board. I don't like talking to you...you have a bad track record with me. I was not picking a fight with you nor was I speaking for anyone other than myself. And frankly your point makes no sense...I'm speaking for other people because you want to have a small group of people making lists. I mean I don't even know where to start with that logic pretzel.

You don't care if a film showed up on a previous list but you do care if I mention it...or if I mention it to many times...or if I stop mentioning it and then bring it up later in a different thread which is what I assumed was the basis of your objection for my posts noting the redundant films.

Part of why I don't like talking to you is the idea that if I don't justify my opinion, you are going to do what follow me around looking for excuses to ban me?



@Siddon I think we can all work out a way to do a Musical and Noir countdowns in the future. I believe that's what Yoda was saying, that smaller niche countdowns can still have a chance to be done but the format might have to be different. I see that as a positive and if a Noir & Musical list was curated by a group of enthusiastic people it could be a tighter more focused list without a lot of repeats. You're not the only one who doesn't want a Noir list with the same old same-old movies that also made the other countdowns, Holden Pike said something similar to you:
...So instead of Noir you could call it "Thrillers" or "Crime Films" or something else, but again, it becomes so broad that all of the usual suspects from the decade lists rise to the top and maybe you get a handful of actual, classic Film Noir. Maybe....
I think we just have to be patient and chilled...and eventually when the time is right we'll do a Musical and Noir countdowns and do them right.



I find this post and the PM you sent me to be highly unacceptable and a complete abuse of your authority on this board.
I'd love to hear why, because I think this reaction is pretty bizarre. You quoted me to argue with me (again), and I responded. You're suggesting...what? That I should ignore you?

And frankly your point makes no sense...I'm speaking for other people because you want to have a small group of people making lists. I mean I don't even know where to start with that logic pretzel.
Me neither, but I'm not the one who baked it. I didn't suggest any link between those two things. You replied to the idea of smaller groups by mentioning your usual complaint about repeated films, and I said it was speaking for other people to imply that this was an inherent issue. You cite repeated films as if it's ipso facto evidence of a problem, and we never get past that point.

You don't care if a film showed up on a previous list but you do care if I mention it...or if I mention it to many times...or if I stop mentioning it and then bring it up later in a different thread which is what I assumed was the basis of your objection for my posts noting the redundant films.
I don't care if you mention it, or mention it "too many times." I care if you repeat it over and over without really engaging with responses or objections to it. And to a lesser extent I care about people making inexplicable demands, like trying to simultaneously argue with me and tell me not to talk to them.

Part of why I don't like talking to you is the idea that if I don't justify my opinion, you are going to do what follow me around looking for excuses to ban me?
Okay, but where do you get that idea? Because it sure hasn't been from me. This was first brought up almost two years ago, and you've agitated over it several times since. Have I threatened to ban you for it? No. I actually attempted to reassure you on this point a couple of years ago: you ignored it.

And again, if you're freaked out about the idea of disagreeing with a moderator, why on earth would you repeatedly quote one to argue with them, or accuse them of abuse of authority? Your words, apart from not being based in anything I've said or done, are completely at odds with your actions.



I'd love to hear why, because I think this reaction is pretty bizarre. You quoted me to argue with me (again), and I responded. You're suggesting...what? That I should ignore you?

You replied to the idea of smaller groups by mentioning your usual complaint about repeated films, and I said it was speaking for other people to imply that this was an inherent issue.

I don't care if you mention it, or mention it "too many times." I care if you repeat it over and over without really engaging with responses or objections to it. And to a lesser extent I care about people making inexplicable demands, like trying to simultaneously argue with me and tell me not to talk to them.
Well I certainly wasn't arguing with you before but I am now. When was the last time I complained about the repeat titles it wasn't in the last countdown thread. So you think something is common that I don't think I've brought up in a year. But yet you felt it was such a problem that you misrepresented my point that I was speaking for other people.

Even if I did bring it up all the time...what type of response am I supposed to make with something that is factual? What is the criticism for stating facts? Is it the existence of the facts that offend you so much that you need to send me private messages.


Okay, but where do you get that idea? Because it sure hasn't been from me. This was first brought up almost two years ago, and you've agitated over it several times since. Have I threatened to ban you for it? No. I actually attempted to reassure you on this point a couple of years ago: you ignored it.

And again, if you're freaked out about the idea of disagreeing with a moderator, why on earth would you repeatedly quote one to argue with them, or accuse them of abuse of authority? Your words, apart from not being based in anything I've said or done, are completely at odds with your actions.
I get th idea you aren't someone to be trusted because you are telling me that I bring this up all the time. I don't agree with you on this...as a matter of fact I just spent the last hour going through my old posts and the last time I brought this up was in January of 2022...over a year ago. On the other hand you've brought up the lack of participation on multiple occasions and yet you still want to do the same thing.

I can't argue with the thoughts especially when they aren't based in reality. You were blatantly wrong on three fronts
1.) I wasn't talking for other people I was talking for myself.
2.) I was not arguing with you I was quoting your suggestion with my feelings on why it's not a good idea...an opinion is not an argument.
3.) I bring this issue up all the time, that is factually wrong. It's an issue that you have



Guys, come on. I'm in charge of the war one! Happy tidings. Margaritas and party hats. Drunk white women for everybody.



Even if I did bring it up all the time...what type of response am I supposed to make with something that is factual?
You could explain why it's important to you. Or why you think it's more important than the other considerations I mentioned. Or anything other than "it'll be mostly films that have been on other lists" and letting that sit there as if it speaks for itself. Anything that might advance the discussion/open some kind of dialogue/maybe even persuade some people.

Is it the existence of the facts that offend you so much that you need to send me private messages.
I'm starting to get the impression that you regard private messages as somehow aggressive or hostile. They aren't. It's actually the opposite: calling someone out in public, demanding a response in front of everyone else (like what you're doing now), is the more aggressive thing. Contacting someone in private takes discussion impediments like pride and face-saving out of it, and (in theory) allows for more candid and nuanced conversation. It also means not subjecting other people to all this kind of stuff if it isn't strictly necessary.

1.) I wasn't talking for other people I was talking for myself.
If you're only speaking for yourself, then you would have to go on to make some kind of case for why it's a problem. But if you don't ever really make that case, it implies the problem is self-evident, which is how we get to speaking for other people: not elaborating implies the problem is obvious and/or universal, rather than idiosyncratic.

I'm willing to believe you when you say this was not your intent, but hopefully you can see how it comes across that way.

2.) I was not arguing with you I was quoting your suggestion with my feelings on why it's not a good idea...an opinion is not an argument.
It's pretty disingenuous to repeat the thing we've argued about before, in a clearly dissatisfied way, and say it isn't arguing. Complaints are inherently argumentative, because complaints mean something isn't right. You wouldn't tell your waiter the order's wrong and say "but don't fix it, I just really wanted you to know."

3.) I bring this issue up all the time, that is factually wrong.
Well, first, I didn't say "all the time." So yeah, it's factually wrong. It's also factually wrong to say I said it. You can quote me loosely, or you can be pedantic about what you said, but you can't do both.

Second, this can't be refuted with calendar time ("I last said it a year ago!") because we only do a couple of countdowns a year to begin with. You could bring it up every countdown and still honestly say you "haven't brought it up in eight months!" or something like that. Before the last time, you mentioned it twice in (relatively) short succession. What matters is the hit rate.

Third, the frequency is the least important part. The more important thing is the repetition of bringing it up and just sort of leaving it at that, repeating the opening each time. I'm fine with you making an earnest case every single time if you want, but that's not what happens.




Also, I'm not sure you appreciate how significant it is for you to throw out an accusation of authority abuse. It's the most serious accusation you can make towards a moderator, and it basically forces me to address all this in public. And I'm not seeing any explanation or defense of it, still. From what I can tell, you invented a fear about me banning you for arguing (literally over my own reassurances inviting you to respond to me), it made you uncomfortable, and you just transferred that onto several otherwise innocuous communications and decided it must mean I was doing something wrong.



Sorry for the distraction, everyone, but obviously some really important things (and serious accusations) there that I can't really ignore. And since trying to discuss them privately is apparently further incitement, no real option but to have it all out here.



I mean it's not going to be mostly films that have been on other lists at all. That's my prediction.

I do have a heap of questions about what is eligible though, and it being War now means I have a few 3 hour films to watch, one 5 hour film to watch and a 9 hour trilogy to watch. Which is a good thing as this will finally spur me on to get started on them.





All in good fun. I don't want any of this to come off as hostile. I'd like to be able to just talk openly and candidly about all this stuff, and I try to deescalate whenever possible, but as I mentioned earlier sometimes the things you do to deescalate are taken the opposite way. Hopefully it's just an unfortunate misunderstanding and we can start over and have some productive discussions about the countdowns and what everyone wants from them.



Guys, come on. I'm in charge of the war one! Happy tidings. Margaritas and party hats. Drunk white women for everybody.
What if you are a white woman?