Money keeps the world spinning!

My point has been that any social persecution with a racial component is a step beyond the social-alone belittling SoulInside brought up (and Nazis used 'big nosed' racial inferiority propaganda on top of their 'bash the rich jew' pitch to an impoverished nation to further their aims). I felt, and feel, it was an inappropriate comparison. But I wanted to draw you out on your reasons for pitching. But yeah, enough rehashing

So you fear some kind of revisionism or forgetting of WW2 lessons and deeds? Fair play, but I still think you would have been better off citing the French Revolution or something if you wanted to bring history to bear on Soul's example.

From what I've read the blanket bombing and Dresden mission in particular were considered points of shame (Dresden because it killed more than Hiroshima via fire bombing but it wasn't a great military hub - just mainly 'cultural' wooden buildings and easily burnt, so I'm told). The UK's had an underdog sympathising aspect for a while now though, and with the tide turned, and the bombing survived, I think some stomach's churned at certain civilian-targeting actions. But yeah let's not wander off topic

Good chatting ruf, let us agree and disagree again in the future (I'm off for a few Easter days now )

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Virtual Reality chatter on a movie site? Got endless amounts of it here. Reviews over here

OK, I think I understand your point now. I'm still not convinced it was all that inappropriate, but at least I understand more why you do. Different perceptions.

Well, not to reopen another front, but the author of the book I mentioned and a few other sources claim Dresden was a legitimate target that was attacked by British and US bombers at the request of the Russians who were kicking down the door to Germany on the Eastern front. Proponents of the attack make the point that Dresden was never declared an open city as was Heidleberg, that it did have some war manufacturing, but primarily it had a concentration of rails and roads along which supplies could be transported to German troops on the front, and along which the Germans could retreat back into the interior. The Russians wanted that door slammed shut so to speak to prevent supplies from reaching the enemy that opposed them and also to prevent the escape of German forces into the interior where they would have to fight them again. The author I was reading made the point that the casualties were so high at Dresden primarily because circumstances combined to create sort of a "perfect storm" of destruction. For one thing, he says, the antiaircraft guns and fighters previously assigned to defend Dresden essentially had been pulled out prior to the raid and sent either to the Eastern front to try to push back the Russians or to the interior as part of the last ditch defense around Berlin. Therefore more bombers got through and were able to make their bomb runs without flack and fighters to disturb them. Moreover, weather conditions were clear and the pathfinders had placed their incendiary markers precisely, plainly marking the target perameters. Also, many civilian refugees had moved west along with the wounded and retreating German troops, so the city was packed with people. And as you pointed out, many of the buildings were old and wooden, so a whole string of circumstances came together to create one of the worse fire-storms of the war. That was not totally unique, however. Towns in both Germany and England had suffered fire-storm bombings before--The Germans did it to Coventry long before Dresden was ever hit. Also, many tissue-paper Japanese cities went up in flames, killing more people in those raids than in the atomic bomb attacks. But that is nothing new--citizens have always been targeted in wars to one degree or another. People generally have acknowledged it only since Sherman marched through Georgia destroying everything that could support enemy troops and breaking civilian support for the Confederacy and the war.

Well, I did enjoy the debate. You argue your side well. If I came across too strong at times I'm sorry--someone once told me I have a "rough bedside manner" in these discussions, although I don't mean to. Hope you and the rest of the forum have a happy Easter and you all come back safely so we can agree or disagree some more. Happy holidays to all.

Ruf, I remember talking to my dad about Dresden, I have all his, and my mum's and nan's 'life during the war stories' filed inside my head! He said that we were shocked by the German's firebombing of Coventry and London early in the war, but as the media wasn't as extensive or as incessant as it is now, so unless you were actually living in those places you wouldn't have known how bad it was. Plus of course our government would want to play it down too for morale reasons.
All our family comes from Liverpool so were all there during the May Blitz of 1941 when Liverpool, a vital port, was bombed the hell out of by the Luftwaffe. Over a few nights the city centre and docks were targeted heavily along with the closely populated housing along the river Mersey, including where we lived and 2000 civilians lost their lives in just those few days. My dad told me that people in Liverpool were demoralised and bitter as the damage and loss of life was so downplayed. So when Dresden happened he thought they had sympathy for the German civilians specially as our media was making the most of what happened and horrible scenes were shown the our newspapers. Just goes to show that ordinary people can sympathise with each other even though they're on different sides hey?

Happy hols to all!
x

Yeah, I remember years ago a British film called Yesterday's Enemy about the vicious fighting between the Japanese and British troops in SE Asia during the early days of the Pacific war and the unfortunate collateral damage to local natives. At one point, one of the British actors states the point that years later both sides would become "yesterday's enemies" who would then be allies and laying wreathes at each other's memorials to the dead of WWII who fought so bitterly against each other.

War truly is hell, and nobody really wins in the long run, but it was important to stop the German and Japanese aggression back then or else allow much of the world to be enslaved.