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Arrogant Pats? That shows a clear lack of knowledge about the Pats, who have been anything but arrogant this entire season. Aside from the last two minutes of the super bowl, when they were indeed acting arrogant, they have been quite humble all season, considering.

They provided virtually NO bulletin material all season, while plenty of other teams spewed bullshit all over the place.

I mean, if you have lot's of printed or video evidence of all this arrogance, let's see it.

If this is about the alleged "running up the score", which plenty of NFL teams who have lost to the Pats have called nonsense, you are dead wrong, period.



Tyger, Tyger, Burning Bright
Arrogant Pats? That shows a clear lack of knowledge about the Pats, who have been anything but arrogant this entire season. Aside from the last two minutes of the super bowl, when they were indeed acting arrogant, they have been quite humble all season, considering.

They provided virtually NO bulletin material all season, while plenty of other teams spewed ******** all over the place.

I mean, if you have lot's of printed or video evidence of all this arrogance, let's see it.

If this is about the alleged "running up the score", which plenty of NFL teams who have lost to the Pats have called nonsense, you are dead wrong, period.
wow... for someone who said "let the floggings begin" you sure are being touchy...
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Passions running high -- very understandable. I'm going to respectfully disagree with a couple things, though...

Arrogant Pats? That shows a clear lack of knowledge about the Pats, who have been anything but arrogant this entire season. Aside from the last two minutes of the super bowl, when they were indeed acting arrogant, they have been quite humble all season, considering.

They provided virtually NO bulletin material all season, while plenty of other teams spewed ******** all over the place.

I mean, if you have lot's of printed or video evidence of all this arrogance, let's see it.
You're right about "bulletin material." They didn't do too much trash-talking...at least, not directly. But like any team, they had a few lapses. Bruschi calling the win over San Diego the "most satisfying win of [his] career" was pretty clearly a swipe at anyone who doubted their past success in the wake of Spygate. I'd say that qualifies as (some) arrogance.

It's a fine line, though. Is Belicheck's constant stonewalling and icy demeanor arrogant, for example? Seems somewhat smug, at the very least. Was Brady arrogant for his response to Burress' own arrogance when he said he expected to score more than 17 points?

Hard to say. When a team is as good as New England was, a lot of swagger is justified. How and when that crosses over arrogance is hard to say.

If this is about the alleged "running up the score", which plenty of NFL teams who have lost to the Pats have called nonsense, you are dead wrong, period.
Well, plenty of losing teams said they didn't mind. They refused to make excuses and put the responsibility on themselves to stop them, but that's not quite the same thing.

There's really two issues here: 1) did they run up the score, and 2) if so, is that a problem? I'm not sure about #2, but I think #1 is pretty clear-cut. If I'm not mistaken (I might be), at one point they ran a score in with 17 seconds left. If they take a knee, the game's over, so I'd say that qualifies as running up the score.

Ditto for the many instances in which they kept airing it out with big leads in the 4th quarter. I'm not suggesting they should really let up, but this wasn't a guard against comebacks. Just the opposite; common sense dictates that those comebacks are far less likely if you run the ball and burn as much clock as possible.

So, I dunno if it's a problem when a team runs up the score, but I do think that's what they were doing. And it's understandable why other fans could find it "arrogant" to keep scoring when a knee ends the game.

And, of course, it could be perceived as somewhat arrogant to keep playing your starters in several meaningless games with the only conceivable benefit being a) breaking records and b) going undefeated. They had home field advantage locked up, and they had numerous games locked up, but they kept trotting guys out there

I won't even get into the Stetson ads.



Arrogant Pats? That shows a clear lack of knowledge about the Pats, who have been anything but arrogant this entire season. Aside from the last two minutes of the super bowl, when they were indeed acting arrogant, they have been quite humble all season, considering.

They provided virtually NO bulletin material all season, while plenty of other teams spewed ******** all over the place.

I mean, if you have lot's of printed or video evidence of all this arrogance, let's see it.

If this is about the alleged "running up the score", which plenty of NFL teams who have lost to the Pats have called nonsense, you are dead wrong, period.
I'd have to agree with you there Mike, if more teams stayed out of the police blotter as well as the Pats did, maybe some peoples attitudes would change in general about professional athletes.

And the whole bit about running up the score is just silly, this is the NFL we're talking about here not College. It's Not an NFL teams job to keep the score down its the other teams job.
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Now, now, let's give all the poor brooding Pats fans a little grieving time. It must be hard to see your team fold like the proverbial house of cards when it really counts. Ok, so that wasn't helpful at all, but hey, us Steelers fans need to twist the knife while we can
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Tyger, Tyger, Burning Bright
Honestly though... my comment about them being arrogant was more from a personal point of view... I've never liked them, and that probably affects how I see things from them. Its more of a feeling I get any time I ever see video of them.



And the whole bit about running up the score is just silly, this is the NFL we're talking about here not College. It's Not an NFL teams job to keep the score down its the other teams job.
Isn't this kind of beside the point, though? No one disputes that it's the defense's job to keep the score down. The question is whether or not the Pats enjoy scoring for its own sake, rather than simply as a means to winning. That's what I'd understood "running up the score" to be about. The implication being that the winning team is either chasing records, or actively seeking to humiliate.



A system of cells interlinked
Awww, no hard feelings folks! I am just whining because my team totally blew it.
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After the Steelers and the Colts blew their chance to make the big game I have to say I really was not interested. However it was an amazing game, and was it me or should the Giants have actually blown out the Pats? I mean they get the ball back after a pissant 12 men on the field challenge. They could have opted to get a few more yards early on in the game and gone for the field goal, but they always have to try for the big one. Well the big one did not come this time.
I am certainly not a Giants fan, although it was nice to see big brother so happy. I must admit that I was certain the Pats would win when thet got that 2nd touchdown later in the game. I even told my son on third down of that drive: Watch, they are going to score now, easily...and they did. Cheers to Manning and cheers to the Giants, and Cheers to the Pats for such a great season, they did earn the right to be there and if they had not already won the big one so many times I might have been a bit sad for 'em.
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Isn't this kind of beside the point, though? No one disputes that it's the defense's job to keep the score down. The question is whether or not the Pats enjoy scoring for its own sake, rather than simply as a means to winning. That's what I'd understood "running up the score" to be about. The implication being that the winning team is either chasing records, or actively seeking to humiliate.
I guess I'm somewhat confused by your argument here, what difference does it make if they enjoy scoring for scorings sake? That is the way the game is played. They were in pursuit of perfection, that much is obvious is it not? Otherwise, perhaps they would have rested some of their players when they had the division locked up. Even if you were somehow able to get some of the members of the team to admit that they were running up the score in order to achieve records or humiliate the other team, again I would say, what difference does it make? We're talking about a war like game. If they had won the Superbowl they would have gone down as one of the greatest teams ever, period. If you're looking at this from primarily a good sportsmanship view I think we're talking about the wrong game. This is a game where a majority of the people that play it are trying to physically destroy the man on the other side by hitting them as hard as they can. I don't know if that makes it right, but it is what it is.



I guess I'm somewhat confused by your argument here, what difference does it make if they enjoy scoring for scorings sake? That is the way the game is played.
I don't think it's how the game is played at all. We can see this by observing what every other team does when they have a massive lead late in the game; they try to run out the clock. And they always take a knee when doing so will end the game. I can't remember even one non-Patriot exception to this in the last decade.

It can be right, wrong, or somewhere in the middle, but I don't think it can be the way the game is played when they're basically the only ones playing that way.

They were in pursuit of perfection, that much is obvious is it not? Otherwise, perhaps they would have rested some of their players when they had the division locked up. Even if you were somehow able to get some of the members of the team to admit that they were running up the score in order to achieve records or humiliate the other team, again I would say, what difference does it make? We're talking about a war like game. If they had won the Superbowl they would have gone down as one of the greatest teams ever, period.
Well, they'd have gone down as one of the greatest teams ever regardless of whether or not they won some games by 14 instead of 21 or 35. I don't see that as enhancing their legacy; to the contrary, I think it could diminish it.

Re: why it matters. I'm not sure how to explain why wanting to humiliate rather than simply win is distasteful. It strikes me as an intuitive truth. But part of the reason is that it was potentially done not in addition to winning, but at the expense of winning. That is to say, there is a not-insignificant amount of risk in playing most of your starters all the way through blowouts, or in meaningless late-season games after home-field advantage has been secured.

So, it's one thing to want to win big; it's another to potentially put future winning in jeopardy by doing so. I don't see the purpose of this, unless the team's goal is to break records, or extract some sort of vengeance, rather than simply to win.

If you're looking at this from primarily a good sportsmanship view I think we're talking about the wrong game. This is a game where a majority of the people that play it are trying to physically destroy the man on the other side by hitting them as hard as they can. I don't know if that makes it right, but it is what it is.
I don't see the two as mutually exclusive. Every team goes out there trying to destroy the other team, but every team takes a knee when they've actually done so, too. Despite its nature, there's plenty of sportsmanship in football; from players patting each other on the helment after a tackle, to offering congratulations in the wake of a difficult defeat. The phrase "give them credit" pops up in virtually every postgame interview.

Regardless, there are 31 other teams in the NFL other than the Patriots, and I think we can agree they, too, want to destroy their opponents. But, as far as I can recall, none of them ran up the score. So I don't think anyone can make the case that this particular kind of cutthroat mentality is inherent to the game; if it were, we'd see more teams doing what the Pats are doing, even though most have fewer opportunities to do so.



Tyger, Tyger, Burning Bright
I guess I'm somewhat confused by your argument here, what difference does it make if they enjoy scoring for scorings sake? That is the way the game is played. They were in pursuit of perfection, that much is obvious is it not? Otherwise, perhaps they would have rested some of their players when they had the division locked up. Even if you were somehow able to get some of the members of the team to admit that they were running up the score in order to achieve records or humiliate the other team, again I would say, what difference does it make? We're talking about a war like game. If they had won the Superbowl they would have gone down as one of the greatest teams ever, period. If you're looking at this from primarily a good sportsmanship view I think we're talking about the wrong game. This is a game where a majority of the people that play it are trying to physically destroy the man on the other side by hitting them as hard as they can. I don't know if that makes it right, but it is what it is.
The discussion had to do with arrogance actually, so the idea of running up the score to humiliate the other team does fit in with that in my mind.



I don't think it's how the game is played at all. We can see this by observing what every other team does when they have a massive lead late in the game; they try to run out the clock. And they always take a knee when doing so will end the game. I can't remember even one non-Patriot exception to this in the last decade.
Well, perhaps you're right, I tend to disagree with you. But if we all believed the same thing I guess that wouldn't be much fun now would it? If I weren't inherently lazy I would go and lookup some examples to the contrary. Mostly though I'm afraid I'm becoming a bit of Patriots apologist and so I would rather drop it than do that.


Re: why it matters. I'm not sure how to explain why wanting to humiliate rather than simply win is distasteful. It strikes me as an intuitive truth. But part of the reason is that it was potentially done not in addition to winning, but at the expense of winning. That is to say, there is a not-insignificant amount of risk in playing most of your starters all the way through blowouts, or in meaningless late-season games after home-field advantage has been secured.

So, it's one thing to want to win big; it's another to potentially put future winning in jeopardy by doing so. I don't see the purpose of this, unless the team's goal is to break records, or extract some sort of vengeance, rather than simply to win.
Again, we are just going to have to disagree here, and I think most of the Patriots team would disagree with you as well. I tend to think that they were trying to prove a point and break records at the same time, and I just don't have a problem with it.

So I don't think anyone can make the case that this particular kind of cutthroat mentality is inherent to the game; if it were, we'd see more teams doing what the Pats are doing, even though most have fewer opportunities to do so.
Well again that's if we were all to agree that that is what they were doing in the first place wouldn't it? Now I'm not trying to take a shot at you here but to me that just sounds a little like a Die-Hard fan of another team making a statement that is based more on feeling than actual fact.



Well, perhaps you're right, I tend to disagree with you. But if we all believed the same thing I guess that wouldn't be much fun now would it? If I weren't inherently lazy I would go and lookup some examples to the contrary. Mostly though I'm afraid I'm becoming a bit of Patriots apologist and so I would rather drop it than do that.
Fair enough. And don't get me wrong; I'm sure there are some examples to the contrary. But they're obviously rare, which makes the same point, I think.

Again, we are just going to have to disagree here, and I think most of the Patriots team would disagree with you as well. I tend to think that they were trying to prove a point and break records at the same time, and I just don't have a problem with it.
That part, admittedly, has a strong subjective aspect to it. Either you think it's unsportsmanlike, or not. I think it is, but can accept that others feel otherwise.

That said, there were instances this season where the Patriots not only tried to break records, but did so in a way that pretty clearly risked (not massively, but not insigificantly) their chances of winning. I'm referring mainly to the injury risks inherent in running your best players out there more than you have to. Putting sportsmanship aside, doesn't this indicate that ego or record-chasing may have overwhelmed reason, and that as a result winning may not have always been the #1 priority? And if so, isn't that undesirable in a sports team?

Well again that's if we were all to agree that that is what they were doing in the first place wouldn't it? Now I'm not trying to take a shot at you here but to me that just sounds a little like a Die-Hard fan of another team making a statement that is based more on feeling than actual fact.
Well, I'm not a Giants fan, nor am I fan of any of the Pats' division rivals. I'm a Steelers fan; we don't have any love lost with New England, to be sure, but I never had any sort of personal feelings towards them until this season.

So, while I probably wouldn't go out of my way to make these points if I liked the Pats more, I don't think I've made any points contingent on how anyone feels about them. IE: other teams play hard without resorting to running up the score, and the Patriots lessen their chances of winning by risking injury to their starters. You don't have to have any feelings one way or another about the team to come to these conclusions.



I take it this is the yankies football and not the real (English) football?



Well its been a sad week here in Wisconsin...
Brett Favre retires after 17 seasons

Statement by Favre

(click if you only want to cry)

I grew up watching Favre and it's going to be really strange with him not in the NFL. He is the Best there is.

I Will Miss You Brett and Thanks
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