Western Hall of Fame II

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The trick is not minding
That's not quite my issue. A drunk person can have a moment of sobriety when something important demands their attention, and puking the alcohol out of your system can help you come down a lot, but not to the extent in that scene. Even when they're sitting at the bar drinking and talking they aren't slurring at all, they don't have that glazed look in their eyes, they aren't stumbling, they just don't even seem like they've had 3 or 4 beers let alone 5 whiskies.
That's because it's a movie not real life. I don't know why some people choose to relate to movies as if they're real. I think that's why you got so upset over my critical review of Solider Blue. To me a movie is a movie, but to be fair when I watch The Great Silence I will watch with an extra critical eye for any scene or behavior that's not totally believable by my standards and then call it out in my review.
This! So much this! True, in some films I do look at certain scenes and reactions and critique them if they’re a tad ludicrous to the point that it flies in the face of common sense, but one must also have a certain suspension of disbelief when watching these. There is a line, after all



This! So much this! True, in some films I do look at certain scenes and reactions and critique them if they’re a tad ludicrous to the point that it flies in the face of common sense, but one must also have a certain suspension of disbelief when watching these. There is a line, after all
I thought there was a lot of honesty in The Ox-Bow Incident. A couple of examples:

When Henry Fonda and Henry Morgan walk into the bar, in most movies the scene would go straight to foreshadowing the events to come. But instead the movie has the two men talking about their awe at the big oil painting above the bar. To me that felt real as it made the moment seem more real. Sort of like the calm before the storm.

When Henry Fonda places a hand on the arm of one of the men on horseback gathering outside of the bar. In most movies we would get a foreshadowing line something like 'remove your hand or I'll remove it for you'...but here it's much more subtle as the man on the horse just looks at Henry Fonda's hand on his arm with a what are you doing look. I thought that was honest too.

And if I must defend the whiskey drinking scene: we all know in westerns that the bars water down the whiskey, so 5 drinks wouldn't equal 5 whiskeys today. And like Cricket said, if someone is drunk then something happens that is threatening, adrenaline is pumped into the blood and adrenaline will counter being drunk as would puking out the alcohol. Not to mention there's different levels of drunk: stinkin' drunk, or walking drunk, or just really buzzed.



To me a movie is a movie, but to be fair when I watch The Great Silence I will watch with an extra critical eye for any scene or behavior that's not totally believable by my standards and then call it out in my review.
I'm sure you'll find one. There was a scene in particular that kind of was a bit, ah okay, I'm just gonna go with it.

I think that for most older movies especially you just have to accept that things weren't the way they are now in regards to filmmaking and acting. I used to have trouble watching older movies for that reason. High Noon was the one I always hated because it didn't meet my expectations of realism (the final shootout mostly) but after seeing it again years later and watching a few hundred older movies, it doesn't bother me anymore.



The trick is not minding
This! So much this! True, in some films I do look at certain scenes and reactions and critique them if they’re a tad ludicrous to the point that it flies in the face of common sense, but one must also have a certain suspension of disbelief when watching these. There is a line, after all
I thought there was a lot of honesty in The Ox-Bow Incident. A couple of examples:

When Henry Fonda and Henry Morgan walk into the bar, in most movies the scene would go straight to foreshadowing the events to come. But instead the movie has the two men talking about their awe at the big oil painting above the bar. To me that felt real as it made the moment seem more real. Sort of like the calm before the storm.

When Henry Fonda places a hand on the arm of one of the men on horseback gathering outside of the bar. In most movies we would get a foreshadowing line something like 'remove your hand or I'll remove it for you'...but here it's much more subtle as the man on the horse just looks at Henry Fonda's hand on his arm with a what are you doing look. I thought that was honest too.

And if I must defend the whiskey drinking scene: we all know in westerns that the bars water down the whiskey, so 5 drinks wouldn't equal 5 whiskeys today. And like Cricket said, if someone is drunk then something happens that is threatening, adrenaline is pumped into the blood and adrenaline will counter being drunk as would puking out the alcohol. Not to mention there's different levels of drunk: stinkin' drunk, or walking drunk, or just really buzzed.
Right, that’s why I was agreeing with your quote. It’s been a full decade since I’ve seen it, but I remember really liking “Ox Bow” a lot.
I need to rewatch it obviously, but it’s one of the films I put as a front runner the moment I saw it nominated. We’ll see how it holds up on a rewatch. Rio Bravo and The Cowboys may jump ahead, as I’ve never seen them and I may enjoy them a whole lot more, and The Great Silence and The Salvation could surprise me, but When the nominations were released, The Ox Bow and Liberty Valance were the front runners in my opinion.



The trick is not minding
The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

Death and destruction follows in three men’s wake as they each search for a grave that contains buried treasure. Each men, all intimately familiar with each other, draw closer to the gold, they also draw closer to the inevitable clash. That’s the backdrop to TGTBTU, but there’s more to it then that.
Each character has a history and their own motives, but we never really get into it too much, with the exception of Tuco. And it’s brief at that.

But it’s more then just about the characters. It’s about the atmosphere. And the backdrop of a war that’s occurring. Throughout we see a constant theme of punishment, for crimes committed or acts betrayal. There’s a scene where a spy is tied to the front of a train, Angel Eyes (The Bad) being threatened by his superior for crimes he has committed, a thief shot after being forced to carry his own coffin, and a hanging. Even EAstwoods character, Blondie (The Good) isn’t above reproach for his betrayal of Tuco at the beginning. There’s even a scene involving Tuco and his brother, a priest, who is made to feel guilt over him leaving their family.
Each character is panted as well as they can be, with a certain glee with Tuco and an iciness with Angel Eyes, and a quiet determination qby Blondie.
And then there is Ennio Morricone’s great iconic score. The use of horns has always been a staple, and you can hear similarities to his other great score, The Untouchables.

I’ve seen this previously, and thought it was good, not great and a rewatch reaffirms my first opinion. This time I noticed a little bit more. I’m glad it was nominated. It’s worth the rewatch.
3 *’s





I watched The Cowboys one a couple days ago and I already forgot most of it...so that's not a good sign. The big problem I have with this film is that it's a coming of age film with a group of characters you never really get to care about. The film does have some strong elements it looks great, and it's a solid heavy in Bruce Dern and I really dug the third act twist (though I think was common in the 70's).

I don't know if I really have that much to say about this one, everything was just kinda fine. I don't know if I'll take anything away from this film perhaps that Bruce Dern was a deeply underused character actor.




Rio Bravo

I'm beginning to become a John Wayne fan. John Wayne is Sheriff John Chance who jails a man accused of murder in his small town. Of course the guy he arrested is the brother of the local Bad Guy who wants him released. Needless to say Sheriff Chance has no interest in releasing the prisoner and plans to hold the accused until the Marshal shows up, 6 days later, to take him off his hands which leaves plenty of time for local bad guy to organize a escape/release plan. It also leaves plenty of time to explore the relationship between Chance and his Deputy Dude (Dean Martin), the sharpshootin' town drunk, and Chance and pro gambler/con woman(?) Feathers (Angie Dickinson).

Rio Bravo is all about the characters. The plot is solid but it's the relationships that make Rio Bravo go. The best is Chance and Dude dealing with Dude's drinking. Think tough love. Dean Martin plays the drunk surprisingly well and it's his scenes with Wayne that are the films strongest. However, Wayne does his best work when paired with Angie Dickinson. It's a love story thingy that I typically ain't a fan of in these kinds of movies but liked it here and I think it's because it wasn't all that sappy and I didn't really object to watching Angie. Plus, Angie really brought out the best in Wayne.

Rounding out Chances' "posse" is Ricky Nelson and Walter Brennan. Ricky Nelson... eh. He plays Colorado, an employee of the murdered man who becomes part of Chances' crew, a hired gun. He doesn't do much and my guess is he was in it just to draw in the teeny bopper crowd of the 50's. Brennan meanwhile is Stumpy, the comic relief who's prone to a shoot first mentality especially if you're getting anywhere near the jail. I initially enjoyed Stumpy but the more he was on screen the more annoying he became.

One final thought. I really would like to see this again because it was only available on DVD from NF. Really NF? It's 2020. Drop $9.99 and grab a blu ray from that jungle of a warehouse. The copy I received wasn't the best and my set up doesn't work all that well with dvd's anyway so it looked pretty doo-doo and sounded worse (constant buzzing) and I'm pretty confident that on blu ray this would look and sound great. Still, even with the dvd shortcomings this was very good.





The Shooting is an independent western from the late sixties early seventies.When I was watching this I felt like I was watching an old Twilight Zone episode padded out to feature length runtime...and that's not a bad thing. We open with a murder, and we have a small cast of four each one having their own back story that's implied but not really expanded on.



I'm not sure I agree with the early ideas that Nicholson and Perkins are bad actors I think they are supposed to be cypher's. It did take a little while to get going for me but I'm okay with that when dealing with a Western. The value in a film like this is it leaves you with things to think about. Good nomination.




The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

Glad this was nominated because it's one I needed to see again before the countdown just to make sure that I had it in the right spot on my list. I think I had it lower than it should be and it was already top 5. Everything about this works. When it comes to the actors what can you say? Jimmy Stewart is Jimmy Stewart and John Wayne is John Wayne. They do their thing, they are THE characters and you either like them or you don't. Fortunately, for me, I like them both. Then you have Lee Marvin as Liberty Valance. I had forgotten just how awful Liberty Valance was. Man, he's a baaaad dude, wonderfully played by Lee Marvin. Special shout to one of my favorites, Andy Devine as the Sheriff who brings a little comic relief to the story. As for the story, there isn't anything to complain about. It's all so well done from the conflicts to the relationships but, c'mon, it's all about that ending. One of the handful of 5 star westerns out there.




The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

Glad this was nominated because it's one I needed to see again before the countdown just to make sure that I had it in the right spot on my list. I think I had it lower than it should be and it was already top 5. Everything about this works. When it comes to the actors what can you say? Jimmy Stewart is Jimmy Stewart and John Wayne is John Wayne. They do their thing, they are THE characters and you either like them or you don't. Fortunately, for me, I like them both. Then you have Lee Marvin as Liberty Valance. I had forgotten just how awful Liberty Valance was. Man, he's a baaaad dude, wonderfully played by Lee Marvin. Special shout to one of my favorites, Andy Devine as the Sheriff who brings a little comic relief to the story. As for the story, there isn't anything to complain about. It's all so well done from the conflicts to the relationships but, c'mon, it's all about that ending. One of the handful of 5 star westerns out there.
I agree with your points, HF. I'm not in the game, but "Liberty Valance" is in my top 5 westerns. This was a unique Ford western, with a twist and a back story. It's one that's hard to forget, and one that I never remember it as being as old as 1962. I'd been a big Lee Marvin fan since his "Chino" in 1953's The Wild One. He and Wayne worked well together.

~Doc




The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

This is a movie that I loved the first time I watched it. It's still a great movie but on rewatches it doesn't have the magic of that first time. Still, it's a top 5 western and is a must see. There's a lot of plot to cover with this so I'm not going to do it. Basically this is a story about three desert pirates looking for some booty. It's a very good movie but you do have to accept that there will be some pretty unbelievable things that have to happen to propel the story (cannonballl!). Accept that and you will probably enjoy this very much. The reason I like it so much is simple - Eli Wallach. Clint may have top billing but make no mistake, it's Eli Wallach's movie. His Tuco is far and away the best part of the film and he's one of the best characters in any film, period. This is a case of a perfect marriage between actor and character. This is such a classic that there really isn't much to say about it. Just watch it. It's fun. Wait, one more thing...the score. It's outstanding. One of the best ever. All right, that's it.



@Hey Fredrick your review of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly sums up how I felt about. Good movie but a bit long! I'm going to have to watch the middle dollars movie, For a Few Dollars More. It's been awhile since I seen that one and a lot of people call it the best of the 3.



The trick is not minding
@Hey Fredrick your review of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly sums up how I felt about. Good movie but a bit long! I'm going to have to watch the middle dollars movie, For a Few Dollars More. It's been awhile since I seen that one and a lot of people call it the best of the 3.
They definitely could have cut out the scenes involving blowing the bridge up.



They definitely could have cut out the scenes involving blowing the bridge up.
Oh geez! I liked that scene the best. All of the civil war scenes were to my liking.

I thought the first third of the film with Eastwood and Wallach could have been cut. Their story could've started in the desert with Eastwood being one of two survivors in the stagecoach and Wallach finding him almost dead and then keeping him alive for his information about the location of the money.



The trick is not minding
They definitely could have cut out the scenes involving blowing the bridge up.
Oh geez! I liked that scene the best. All of the civil war scenes were to my liking.

I thought the first third of the film with Eastwood and Wallach could have been cut. Their story could've started in the desert with Eastwood being one of two survivors in the stagecoach and Wallach finding him almost dead and then keeping him alive for his information about the location of the money.
See, I’m the opposite. I enjoyed the cat and mouse chase between them. It built their relationship, that without it, there would have been no context to the final scene.





I really don't like John Ford movies, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is a good enough movie but man do I hate the ford characters and archetypes. Cartoonish humor, soliloquies and missed opportunities liter the story of three men. Lee Marvin is a man who runs a gang in a territory, John Wayne is a ranch owner and Jimmy Stewart is a lawyer who ends up working in a saloon.



The core of the film is about the nature of violence and the notion of freedom, between the pragmatism of Wayne, the idealism of Stewart and the nihilism of Marvin. Deadwood would cover these topics later on a fantastic show but here it's a lot of tell and not show. We don't get to see Marvin's cruelty as much as we should. The film has a claustrophobic quality in the sense that the camera barely leaves the rooms. And frankly John Wayne lacks the charm to carry a third lead performance for the film.



It's really weird to watch this film and High Noon within a couple months of each other. Because this one feels like it was made 10-20 years before the other.



We don't get to see Marvin's cruelty as much as we should. The film has a claustrophobic quality in the sense that the camera barely leaves the rooms.
I thought they showed enough of Marvin being bad. Enough to get the point across anyway but I do get the claustrophobic feeling. The movie looks and feels a bit like a play.



I thought they showed enough of Marvin being bad. Enough to get the point across anyway but I do get the claustrophobic feeling. The movie looks and feels a bit like a play.

Eh...maybe but I thought his performance were undercut by his minions and the "humor" of John Ford.