The MoFo Top 100 Westerns: Countdown

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Miss Vicky's Avatar
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06-07-20
More John Wayne? Ugh.

I liked Back to the Future Part III well enough when I was a kid. I tried rewatching it shortly before the voting deadline but it just wasn't working for me and I shut it off about halfway through.



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Bright light. Bright light. Uh oh.
06-07-20
Red River is my #10. It's a Star Wars-type experience for some people I know. My brother, who was five when Red River came out, said that the only movie he could compare it to in the theatrical experience was Star Wars (1977), and no matter how much I disagree with him on other things, I can see what he's talking about concerning Red River (I've see it on the big screen). Hawks goes out of his way to film everything in a spectacular manner, even including the scenes which were obviously shot on sets. Much of Red River is shot out on the Plains in the middle of nowhere, and according to Pauline Kael, the budget for the film almost doubled because Hawks rented the cattle and then a rain storm occurred, causing the film to be unable to shoot the appropriate scenes until after about 1.5 million dollars got washed away. Even so, most everybody loved Red River, and it's one of the greatest adventure films I've ever seen.

It's really interesting to see the interaction between Wayne and Clift. The kid they have playing the young Clift is really good at getting pissed at the Wayne (Dunson) character, but Clift, himself, tries to play everthing low-key, at least until he's forced to act in the video shown. I also love the relationship between Walter Brennan and John Wayne. The characters in Red River just seem to have lived together for years

I really like BttFIII (probably my wife's fave of the series) and considered it for my list, but it got cut.

My List

10. Red River
11. Oklahoma!
20. The Ballad of Cable Hogue
22. Support Your Local Sheriff!
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06-07-20
Watched both in the run-up to this. Red River was in with a shout of making my list for a while but got shuffled down the pack in the final few weeks. I'd never watched Back To The Future Part III before, quite enjoyed it but was never really in contention for me.

Seen: 23/46 (phew, crawls back to 50%)
My list:  

Faildictions (yee-haw version 1.01):
54. Texas, Adios
53. Vera Cruz



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06-07-20
I would like to see BTTF3 again some day.

When I first watched it I really loved it. But then with the rewatch it just felt too much like beating a dead horse. Just doing the same jokes and weird cosplay for the third time. It was just too much... but who knows where I’ll stand with a future rewatch...



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06-07-20
Meek’s Cutoff was on my watchlist for this countdown, but it was one of the movies that I just didn't find time to watch before the deadline.

The Shootist was on my list until the very end, but it got cut in the last day or two as I was narrowing my list down to only 25 movies. It was one of the hardest movies to cut from my list, so I'm glad to see that it made the countdown without my help.

I liked Red River enough to consider it for my list, but in the end, there just wasn't enough room on my list for it.

When this countdown was first announced, I was sure that Back to the Future Part III would end up somewhere on my list. It's my least favorite of the BTTF trilogy, but it's still a great movie. But as I watched more and more movies for this countdown, it kept getting pushed down a little bit, until it just slipped off my list.
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06-07-20
Red River is one of those classic Wayne movies that I went back and forth with. It was a "Do I choose this one or do I choose that one?" Well, in the end I didn't choose this one, but it was a hard cut to make. Great movie! Glad it made a respectable place on the list but I would have sworn it would be in the Top 50. I'm starting to get curious as to what will show and exactly where because if a biggie like Red River doesn't break the Top 50, what will?

Back to the Future III is, again, a comedy to me, but to me, it's more of a time-travel comedy than a Western. But out of all the comedy/modern day Western mashups I rejected for the list, I can see where this one comes the closest to being a proper Western. Still, the time-travel aspect kept it out of real contention for me, as much as I dig the movie.

So far:
Hombre Me: 13 The list proper: 88
The Naked Spur Me: 25 The list proper: 86
Ride the High Country Me: 10 The list proper: 63
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06-07-20
Red River was okay, but I didn't love it. It was pretty decent for a John Wayne movie, considering I'm not really a fan.

I liked Back to the Future when I was a kid, but not anymore.

Meek's Cutoff was my #1. I love everything about that movie. Here's my relatively recent review from the HoF:

Originally Posted by Zotis


Meek's Cutoff (2010)

Anyone on here who knows me knows that I love unconventional narrative structure. This movie was a gourmet treat catered perfectly to my taste. It's rare to see a movie this subtle even in arthouse cinema. There was dialogue off in the distance that I had to strain to hear and missed parts of just like the women who weren't privy to their male counter parts' discussion. They had to stand off in the distance and could barely hear even though the conversation directly affected their fates. I strongly related to Michelle Williams' character, Emily, with her passionate but measured anger towards the ignorance and stupidity that threatened to get them all killed. One line particularly stood out to me, "I don't blame him for not knowing. I blame him for saying that he did." A lot of movies force situations to reach the desired outcome of the plot, and as a result they feel unrealistic and lack emotional impact. The plot in this movie was natural and realistic. The characters were sensible, and on both sides reasonable. Meek himself was a moderate example of a fool who talks too much, and lies in a compelling manner. The others who struggled with belief and doubt proposed reasonable perspectives to each other as they discussed their course of action. How often I've found myself frustrated with the stupidity of characters who make choices that just don't seem thoughtful enough, because the plot needs to go in a certain direction. The sensibility of the characters in this movie was very refreshing. The gorgeous shots of the cast walking across dreary landscapes sunk in the atmosphere of exhaustion and gave me a sense of just how tiresome it must have been, and how much walking they had to do. Across barren desert, rocky hills, winding valleys, and muddy rivers they dragged their weathered souls towards the uncertain hope of a better future. The variety of landscapes, and the landscapes themselves were quite fascinating. I can certainly understand why most people would not enjoy this movie. Unless you love cinematography for the sake of cinematography alone, and enjoy seeing actors walking in costume across various landscapes and doing normal things like lighting fires and setting up camp, I don't think a person can enjoy this type of film. The camera angles themselves, and the different types of shots, tickled me gleefully. I get so tired and bored of the constant straight on shots and over the shoulder dialogue shots that most movies have. I just love it when the camera is put all over the place, and you really get to enjoy cinematography as an art form. I can't stand the formulaic dialogue that most movies have, where characters never talk out of turn, and generally lack the awkwardness and quarreling that real life has. I think a lot of things were improvised in this movie. I got the sense they were just literally setting up camp and the camera was capturing whatever naturally unfolded. I haven't seen any movie quite like this. For my second watch I enjoyed it even more than the first time. I already want to watch it again.




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06-07-20
I had Red River at 16. It's a nice solid Hawks film and Ive seen it twice. John Wayne and Hawks are a good combo.

Back to the Future 3 I had at 22. A really fun movie surprisingly for me. And while it obviously hinges on being a Western, well, why the hell not.



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06-07-20
I will watch Red River again someday. I like the leads in it but the film overall didn't click first watch. Didn't consider BTTF. I love the first one but, maybe, no two sequels are more irrelevant in my mind.
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06-07-20
Absolutely love She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, which I consider to be one of many of Ford's masterpieces. It was number 8 on my list and I'm surprised to see it quite low.

Red River is a brilliant film, but it looks like I forgot to include it on my list.

Meek's Cutoff was my number 24, I only watched it recently but I haven't stopped thinking about it. Cool to see so much love for it on here.

The Great Train Robbery is an absolutely amazing piece of filmmaking and deserves to be on the list, although I'm a bit surprised it managed to get this high.

Back to the Future Part III, well I liked this when I was younger and think it's okay now. But this high? Above She Wore a Yellow Ribbon and Red River? Some strange rankings going on here
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Play It
06-07-20
Originally Posted by Daniel M
Back to the Future Part III, well I liked this when I was younger and think it's okay now. But this high? Above She Wore a Yellow Ribbon and Red River? Some strange rankings going on here
You can partly blame me for that



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06-07-20
It's been about 6 or 7 years now since I've seen Red River. I think it was my first John Wayne movie, and the first non Clint Eastwood western I loved.

Saw all the Back to the Future movies when they came out. Love the first and have seen it many times. I didn't think anything of either sequel.

11. The Shootist (1976) (#57)
18. Day of the Outlaw (1959) (#77)
19. Red River (#56)
24. The Furies (1950) (#84)



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06-07-20
I haven't posted for a while but now that films I voted for are starting to crack the main list I think I'll have to change that.

I had The Shootist at #19 and Red River at #24. It probably won't surprise anyone to read that I'm not fussed about John Wayne in general - the way I see it, it's more a law of averages that an actor as prolific as him happened to star in as many classics as he did (working with a few talented filmmakers that knew how to use him rather than coast on his status as a walking icon certainly didn't hurt either). I watched The Sons of Katie Elder the other night after it made the countdown and that was definitely an example of a film that got by on having John Wayne just be John Wayne, and while that doesn't automatically ruin a film, more often than not it tends to harm my estimation of a film. In any case, I tend to prefer the films that play around with his patently ridiculous image and persona - both of these films do that quite well. The Shootist is pretty straightforward in having the Duke play a terminally ill gunslinger in a way that lets him show a vulnerability that is pointedly absent from the bulk of his movies and works as a capstone for the man's career, while Red River is one of the films that actively dares to challenge assumptions about his authority by pairing him with Montgomery Clift and having the two of them play father-and-son cattle herders who come to blows over their latest operation. It has been interesting to note how many Wayne films pair him with a younger co-star (see also Ron Howard in The Shootist) and see how each individual film opts to treat that particular dynamic, whether it's in having the youth be a brat who needs to show his elder some respect or actually having them challenge Wayne himself as an emblem of the Old West who has always seemed at least 56 years old in all his movies.

As for ones I've seen but didn't vote for...

The Sons of Katie Elder - watched this the other day and it does have promising moments (when it does get down to shooting, it's not bad) and has a couple of good moments (I daresay it's Dean Martin who ends up being the movie's real MVP), but it's a little on the long side and I ultimately found it a mediocre affair.

The Ballad of Cable Hogue/Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia/Ride the High Country/Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid - The Wild Bunch not withstanding, I've never really been taken about any of Peckinpah's Westerns. I revisited Pat Garrett a while back and found it decent with a few stand-out moments, but not the classic I'd hoped for. I have been meaning to revisit the others (Alfredo Garcia in particular), but the question of whether they invite conflicting feelings or are just a little too dull for my liking hangs over all of them (especially Ride the High Country coming across as a pretty standard Western compared to Peckinpah's more...distinctive works).

Three Amigos! - I guess it's fine in that way that most Landis comedies tend to be where I like the high concept and think the performers are decent, but I look back on it and merely remember it being okay at best. Maybe I could use a rewatch.

The Gold Rush - on the list of filmmakers I respect more than like, Chaplin ranks pretty highly, and this is definitely a strong example of a classic I respect more than like.

The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean - feels of a vibe with Cable Hogue but also more batsh*t and that's enough to make me think that, while I don't love it, is enough to distinguish it for the better in my estimation. If I had to rank these films in order of which ones I'd revisit first, this one would be towards the front of the line.

Pale Rider - most Eastwood films tend to be pretty middle-of-the-road for me and this one is no exception.

Westworld - this might've made my contenders list if I'd thought to consider it enough of a Western, but yeah, it's pretty good.

Bad Day at Black Rock - obviously, it seems like the quality of the entries is getting higher as the list goes on but this really is a solid piece of work.

El Topo - I remember hearing about this for years before it got released on DVD and I finally got to witness the madness for myself. I gave it one viewing back in (I'm guessing) high school or so and then just let it sit. I got the chance to revisit it in theatres a few years back and...it just bored me more than anything. Can't really knock its inclusion here - at this rate, it's liable to be the token "acid Western" on the list and I guess you need to represent as much of the genre as possible, but in the end it's kind of disappointing.

Django - I liked it. Could use a rewatch.

The Great Train Robbery - like I said about El Topo, this seems like the kind of thing you put on the list because it wouldn't be an all-encompassing list without it. At least this one proves good to watch even just beyond historical significance.

Meek's Cutoff - another contender that almost made my list. Like every other Reichardt I've seen, it's a solid piece of work (and it comes so very close to matching its rank on the directed-by-women countdown - here it's #58, there it's #56).

Back to the Future Part III - a film like this makes me want to coin the term "pop Western", but that sounds pretentious. In any case, it's my least favourite of the trilogy and even assessed as a Western it's still pretty whatever.
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06-07-20
Seen both, love both, considered both, but didn't vote for either.


Red River (Howard Hawks 1948)

Director: Howard Hawks
Cast: John Wayne, Montgomery Clift, Joanne Dru, Walter Brennan, John Ireland
Genre: Western

about: John Wayne is 'Dunson' a stubborn determined man who leads his heard of cattle on a long drive to market. During the long track to market, Dunson's tyrannical behavior rubs his men the wrong way, causing his adopted son (Montgomery Clift) to take charge. Something that Dunson won't stand for.

My thoughts: Red River does a lot of things right, and there's a few things I wish it had done differently, overall it's a fine and powerful western. But first the good stuff:



John Wayne, he's a bastard in this film and a damn good one! He got my 'dander up' and that's a sign of a strong actor. Some people think Wayne can't act because he always plays the same roles. BS! The man can definitely act and he does vary his performances, he's in top form here.

Montgomery Clift, they could have easily made his character an arch type, wimpy guy, who couldn't do anything right. But nope, he's tough enough, but fair...He's a quick draw and will use his gun but he's not cold blooded. He's fleshed out and three dimensional and makes the movie work. He's a unique actor, I like him in the films I've seen him in.

Walter Brennan, Brennan lightens the mood so our senses have a chance to reset and be ready for the next tension filled scene. I always like him, he adds a lot.

Quo the Native American, yes I'm even going to review him! He paired well with Brennan and also added a lighter touch when it was needed. Thumbs up to the script writer for respecting his character and not making him look foolish.

Cherry Valance, cool name for a character. John Ireland rocks this role. Good story element as he appears to be the antagonist and a direct threat to Montgomery Clift. This really adds tension and excitement. The way his character finally turns out, is a sign of intelligent script.

I loved! the on-location shooting. The film looks so rich and vast with the wide angle shots at the start of the film of the wagon train. Later there's nice wide angle shots of 1000s of cattle. Very impressive and a hallmark of Howard Hawks, he goes big here!



What I didn't like: The wagon train scene when the girl is shot through the shoulder with an arrow, she doesn't even flinch...she actually smiles. Say what?

The ending, seemed cold heartened, Cherry Valance is killed and laying there and they just forget him....and everyone ends on a happy note. The happy ending didn't work for me. We have this huge buildup with Wayne, half crazed with revenge, comes to Abilene to kill Clift. After a dramatic fight sequence, the girl gives a speech and then almost automatically they're friends again.

Still Red River is one of the all time great Westerns.




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Women will be your undoing, Pépé
06-07-20
Originally Posted by Citizen Rules
I think me and @Zotis really love that film, maybe another MoFo or two.
Originally Posted by Citizen Rules
Whoops, that read weird.
oh oh STALKER ALERT

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I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
06-07-20
Red River made my list at #18. There was a lot to like about this film - just the logistics of shooting the cattle drive must have been something, and the acting is great. I'm not a John Wane fan but he does a good job here as sort of the villain of the piece. Montgomery Clift as his adopted son, Matt Garth, the gayest cowboy this side of Brokeback Mountain - there's a notable scene where Garth and Cherry Valance compare the size of each other's guns - and a whole host of supporting characters all give this film character and life. Like Citizen, I wasn't happy with the ending at all, that they made up will be of great comfort to all of the people Dunson murdered in cold blood, I'm sure. The character of Tess Millay was a bit too Hollywood for the setting as well. I nearly didn't put it on my list, the ending annoyed me that much, but then the rest of the film was so well realised that I couldn't not. Some of the quirks of the story did make me wonder whether the finished script was what was originally intended.



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I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
06-07-20
Young Guns, The Great Train Robbery and Back to the Future Part III were all considered for my list, but I didn't put them on in the end. I liked BTTF3 the best of all the BTTF films back in the day, but it's been so long since I last saw it that I couldn't really vote for it. Meek's Cutoff was a film I really wanted to like - the Western is a very male-dominated genre, so a film directed by a woman that focused on women was interesting, but like Mark, I found it a bit of a bore; it didn't quite seem...real is the wrong word, but I didn't quite believe in the story.

That makes 11 I've seen so far, and 3 from my list.

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