The Buffy Thread

Or Zander!

Let's face it, it was the supporting characters that made Buffy great, too.

Eh.

I completely agree. LT and I just watched Smashed, Wrecked, and Gone the other night - Three awesome episodes (very dark) in a row. Man, I miss this show.

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I hang a Buffy poster in my classroom (it has the cast from the 2nd and 3rd seasons) and my students were born during the 90s so they don't really know the show. I always take advantage of their comments about the poster by saying, "Buffy was the greatest TV show ever."



P.S.: I spelled Xander's name wrong!

Are you kidding Tramp? My guess is that you've seen her name, at least, 500 times because she's the Executive Producer of both Buffy and Angel. She also was the director of the original Buffy The Vampire Slayer film (or the person who didn't 'get' Whedon's script and f'cked it up, depending on your point of view.)

Certainly not a creative force behind the Buffyverse, though why she owns the rights I don't know. I'm pretty sure it's only the film rights she owns though, as she had to get Whedon on board for the tv programme because she couldn't go ahead without his consent.

You're probably right, I've seen her name a ton, but whenever I think of Buffy, I think of Whedon...

This whole idea sounds like she's trying to make a buck on the Buffy name.

You'd think that she'd made 'enough' as the EP for Buffy and Angel, more than enough considering she did f'kall for the money. Maybe it's the artist in her? More than likely, it's to do with ego. It must be quite galling, for a director, to know that all the success you've had is due to someone you don't really get on with, whose talent you've been lucky enough to ride and whose permission you had to have to make what you did anyway. Add to that, the fact that it was all done with minimum input (and I think I'm being kind there) from yourself.

On the evidence available (the original film) had Whedon given his permission, but hadn't been invovled, how long do you think Buffy would've lasted? It came in midseason as it was. Would've have even made it beyond the pilot?

Just (re)started season 7 - Not a weak as I remembered it being so far...

Posted about this in The Shoutbox as well: saw a couple more episodes last night; I'm about halfway through season 3 at the moment.

So far I'm just a tiny bit letdown, but mostly because the first season is pretty weak. It feels like it's starting to get into its groove. It helps that, after awhile, the show becomes more and more self-aware about how ridiculous some of its own storylines are. Still, a bit too much nondescript fighting means almost every episode has a scene that drags a bit.

But, hey, I'm still watching it, so that's something.

Yeah, that is one of the best aspects, in that it really starts to deconstruct itself (the show) after while, and it never gets to mired in its own self-importance.

I will ask about a couple of the stronger aspects of Season 2, and what you thought about them.

Passion - This episode is SO well done, on both the comedy side and the serious side. Did you find it moving at all?

Becoming - The season finale is remembered as one of the more hard hitting cliffhangers in the show, as all my friends that watched the show when this aired ( I wasn't watching then) talked about it for MONTHS. Did you find this episode to be effective? Were you and your lady "into it". Did you cry at the end?



You say you are midway through Season 3...

What did you watch last? I want to ask about a couple of episodes, but don't want to spoil!

No sweat. I can't associate most episode titles with their actual content, so I'll hop on over to Wikipedia to reply...

Some of it. The stuff with Giles is almost invariably the best. He's probably the only character, for me, that can say something serious or dramatic, and actually have genuine emotional weight behind it. The rest crack wise (not that they don't do it well) a little much for me to really respond to it when they get serious.

That was definitely one of the better ones, though I'm having trouble separating the one episode out from the entire Angel storyline. Speaking of which...

Haven't cried at anything in the show yet, though these days I don't cry nearly as much as I used to about movies or shows in general.

I thought the two-part episode was quite good, but things kept getting in the way of my enjoyment. Two things, mainly: 1) I can't stand Drusilla. I don't find her to be creepy, interesting, funny, or compelling in any way. I just find her staggeringly annoying. I can't overstate this. 2) I really, really disliked the entire Angel-as-bad-guy subplot. It made sense, I suppose, but it dragged on forever. I might have liked the finale more if I hadn't, at that point, been so ready to see it wrapped up.

Part of all this, I think, is that I don't really buy into Angel in general. The guy's been around for hundreds of years, yet finds his soulmate in a 16-year-old girl? I mean, she's smart and all, but I'd think by that point he'd need a little something more. I can't take their relationship seriously...at least, not seriously enough for me to have the kind of reactions the show wants me to when they run into each other.

I also thought it was rather weird to have him (spoilers abound, everyone) basically thrown into a torturous hell for 100 years. I don't think the show works when it suddenly gets uber-heavy like that. The rest of the show is too whimsical in comparison.

It's funny; Firefly (and Serenity, for that matter), another Whedon creation, has lots of wisecracking and still plenty of seriousness, but it always felt natural. It felt like the characters did it to distract themselves from what was happening, but in Buffy, it just feels less genuine to me. It feels like they don't take things seriously at all, so it's hard for me to be any different.

It's all very weird, because I like the show -- and most of its subplots -- very much on paper. Something about the execution irks me, though.

Just finished Amends. I thought that and the last espidoe, The Wish, were pretty good.

Ah, good, you did see The Wish, which introduces my favorite Buffy character, Anya. Emma Caulfield adds another above average actress to the show, although they tale their sweet time getting involved as a full cast member, that's for sure. At first they try to fit her into Cordy's role/lines, but she develops into her own niche after a while. Anya kicks so much ass in so many ways. LT and I both adore her character to no end!

Did you enjoy the social commentary about mass marketing in The Wish? I thought it was pretty clever, if a bit obvious. I also really liked Dark Willow and Xander.

Amends is an episode that is just sort of a one-off, but it's really well done, and some of the concepts come back (much) later in the series.

Fair enough on the Angel thing, and you aren't alone. As for Drusilla....are you INSANE?! Dru is HILARIOUS, and I can just watch her all day. Lucky for you, she transplants to Angel and is rarely seen on Buffy after a while. Color me stunned, though - Dru cracks me up.

Wait until you get to Glory - She drives everyone nuts.

LT and I were discussing recently, how Buffy really gets under a person's skin (in a good way) as one goes along through the seasons. Sure, there are plenty of low and high points in the show, some seriously bad episodes (only a few, though) and a couple of arcs that don't work as well as they could have, but the show works on a global level in some pretty subtle ways. In other words, it can change people in a very real and important way.

This won't happen all the time, with every person, but many people have said exactly this to me:

"Oh...Buffy...that show changed my perspective on insert various life issue here".

The show aims to be silly, but to speak to us about many important things in a pretty serious way sometimes. So you think this is accurate, or just so much fan boy hullabaloo?

As for the comedy, do you enjoy a lot of it?

I found Angel to be one of the best villains to ever appear on the show and the episode Passion shocked the hell out of my. My jaw was on the floor because I did not see it coming. I was depressed the rest of the week. That episode proved to me that ANYONE can die at any moment and that Angelus was indeed bad-ass.

And buffy did change my life, it was the first show that I ever fell in love with too.

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Where about are you up to in the show, Yoda (which season)? I didn't catch your post in the Shotbox, and I skimmed through your conversation with Sedai but didn't see.

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I would give you ten thumbs up for this post if I could.

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He's in season 3 (my personal favourite, it's all downhill from there yoda )and has just watched Amends and The Wish. One of my favourite episodes of all Buffy. Actually, I think that Yoda may prefer Angel to Buffy, as the themes are more adult (that's grown-up, not porn).


*sigh* Even with my favourite things, it seems I'm at the opposite end of everything. I hated Dru and her stupid voice and witterings (though I'll say that I liked it better in Angel) but I loved Glory. I thought she was hysterical. In fact, I think that season 5 is probably the second (maybe joint second) best season. Does anyone else here like Glory? I'm the only Glory-loving Buffy fan amongst my friends, not that there are many of us, but surely there's someone here who likes her too.

Even though Season 4 was a bit uneven, I'm not a fan of Riley, it has Hush.

Hush is a magnificent episode and there are plenty more great episodes after season 3. However, I feel that season 3 is the best season.

Actually season 4, whilst uneven, Riley soaked and has Adam tacked on halfway through, has some of my favourite Buffy episodes (the aforementioned Hush, Beer Bad, Pangs and A New Man) also, there's some Faith action, Anya gets intergrated into the group and Tara arrives too. Even though it seems to be most Buffy fans least liked season (in my experience, anyway) it's actually a really important season.

Watch out folks - Minor spoilers for later Buffy seasons below!

Oh, I love Glory. She cracks me the hell up, for sure. She is constructed to be an annoying character, though, clearly.

As for Season 3 being the strongest: It is one of the stronger seasons, but I do think some of the arcs in later season are just downright better all around. Also, Season three doesn't contain anything on the level of Reckless, which I consider to be one of the best hours of TV ever done. How about The Musical followed by Tabula Rasa? Sick ****, for sure. The opening arc of season 7 (yes, I said 7) is absolutely top notch, as well. The First is one of the best Big Bads, too. Come to think of it, the final few episodes of season 7, with Caleb et al. is some of my favorite Buffy material ever done. Too bad the middle arc is so weak.

All this talk is making me want to crack open the DVDs again.

We have had a blast watching the entire series again. I must say, it has affected me differently than the first time I watched it, as i am very different now, and I relate to things in a much different way.