Scarlett Johansson and her withdrawl of Trans role

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What's that called when an actor is looked at as only being able to play one type of role?
Typecast.
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Are we in danger now of seeing a dilution of the industry and film projects due to the potential of causing offence. I think that's a very dangerous and quite sad path to take.
It happens everywhere already and we're slowly moving towards liberal and just fascism where no offending opinions or actions are allowed.



Not read any replies, here's my two cents, just meek of Scarlett to give in to the pressure and her comments supporting it, not least because this would have been a meaty role for her which I believe she is in need of after so much fluff.. It's like attacking the very definition of an actor but it's totally unsurprising as the way things are going I want to hide my head under a rock and pretend it's not happening. I've lost any respect for her that she didn't stand her ground, she's as bad as the social media cry baby club who bullied her out of this role.



Are we in danger now of seeing a dilution of the industry and film projects due to the potential of causing offence. I think that's a very dangerous and quite sad path to take.

t's already happening, without a shadow of a doubt. Marvel and DC are excelling in it and is so blatantly obvious.



Welcome to the human race...
Yes. I want to know the rules.

Transgender people have to now play transgender characters. So just so the whole world is on the same page - what are the rules regarding people certain sexualities playing characters of certain sexualities?

In order for this situation to not happen again, it would be useful to know what is frowned upon and what isn't.

I suspect though, that just by even bringing this up I'd be castigated if I was a person in the public eye.
If we're going to talk about the difference between cisgender and transgender people in particular, then the former group outnumbers the latter when it comes to both roles and the actors who could conceivably play them. Trans actors are not limited to playing explicitly trans characters, but for them to be passed over on trans roles in favour of famous (or perhaps not even famous) cis actors seems more than a little unfair given the vast difference in terms of available opportunities for the two types of actor. A good rule to know what would likely be frowned upon is to ask how much privilege each particular group has not just within the entertainment industry but within society at large before determining which groups could use the opportunities the most.

As for the risk of being publicly castigated, well, at best you accept that this is an on-going learning process and as long as you try to understand other people's reasons and ultimately show a willingness to avoid making such mistakes in future then it won't be such an issue. Trying to be understanding is better than doubling down on your more reactionary opinions and making knee-jerk complaints about the PC police ruining everything or whatever.

Absolutely ridiculous. Whatever happened to telling these numpties to go f**k themselves? When did society lose its spine?
Yeah, the people who are making a movie about a trans person should tell actual trans people to go f*ck themselves. That makes perfect sense. If that's what counts for "spine" these days, then society should never have had one in the first place.

I mean, I get the backlash, but that's what being an actor is about! Playing people that aren't you, putting yourself in other people's shoes and new circumstances, where tf is the art if you strip that away from the job. We have to limit our artists now because some people will get offended? Screw that!

To be honest, only a really popular actor can make a film like this kind of successful, if that. The audience has shown that they won't really go out and support films with minorities (just look at Love, Simon). With a highly popular actress like Scarlet, at least they have a bigger chance of breaking even and being able to tell the story. Sadly, there aren't really any popular transgender actors, more people will go see a film with Johansson in the lead role than Jennifer from around the block.
Where's the art in not doing due diligence to the subject matter of your story for the sake of some self-congratulatory actor's challenge? Is it worth getting Scarlett in to tell the story when the story has to be changed around so much to accommodate her presence (to say nothing of how questionable her actual box office draw is after considering that she couldn't guarantee Ghost in the Shell breaking even)?

I was thinking that too, when I first seen this controversy. I though to myself, and that's why Trump became president. I'm not a fan of Trump myself, but I really see a huge backlash happening, against these out of control, special interest opportunist...

Scarlett Johansson got the role because of two important factors, A) she's a well respected actress, and B) she has huge name appeal and can draw in an audience to make the movie money. And that's why she was choose over an unknown, no name recognition, trans actor.

It's not discrimination, if it was the producer wouldn't be telling the story of this trans person in the first place. I hope the entire movie gets shelved and never made, not because of the subject matter but because of the self serving me-me reaction.
I've always found the "this is how we got Trump" thing questionable because it always felt like it was blaming left-wing people who want to make things better for inadvertently inspiring the right-wing people who want to make things worse, as if preserving a "peaceful" status quo that would mainly benefit the people in the centre is automatically better than risking right-wing backlash over any kind of left-wing improvement. Saying you're not a fan of Trump barely means anything if your main response is to condescendingly treat people as being too selfish for boycotting a movie that wouldn't have shown them any respect in the first place (never mind that "it's not discrimination because it was a movie about a trans person" line, which not only disregards the aforementioned changes that would've been made to downplay the trans element but also assumes that simply being about a trans person should put it above criticism by trans people).

It happens everywhere already and we're slowly moving towards liberal and just fascism where no offending opinions or actions are allowed.
Is it really so bad to want other people to be less sh*tty? Maybe consider whether people actually have good reason to take offence at said opinions before crying fascism.

Not read any replies, here's my two cents, just meek of Scarlett to give in to the pressure and her comments supporting it, not least because this would have been a meaty role for her which I believe she is in need of after so much fluff.. It's like attacking the very definition of an actor but it's totally unsurprising as the way things are going I want to hide my head under a rock and pretend it's not happening. I've lost any respect for her that she didn't stand her ground, she's as bad as the social media cry baby club who bullied her out of this role.
And if you actually read the other replies (especially my first one), you'd have seen how the "meaty role" wouldn't have meant sh*t since it came from a place of such fundamental ignorance (if not disrespect) to the subject matter that it might as well be the very watered-down garbage that people claim to oppose, which is also part of why it was so vocally opposed in the first place.
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Is it really so bad to want other people to be less sh*tty?
Define sh*tty. I think lesbians calling transgender men rapists and (allegedly) yelling death threats to them on London Pride is being sh*tty.

Maybe consider whether people actually have good reason to take offence at said opinions before crying fascism.
Taking offense and demanding removal of everything offensive are two different things. Why should we pamper these people all the time? Why wouldn't it be better for them to learn to deal with some amount of being offended like the rest of us?



This might just do nobody any good.
Why wouldn't it be better for them to learn to deal with some amount of being offended like the rest of us?
Maybe I’m going out on a limb here but I think trans people know a bit more than most about dealing with offensiveness.



Maybe I’m going out on a limb here but I think trans people know a bit more than most about dealing with offensiveness.
Maybe but same applies to some degree for all groups who noticeably differ from the norm. It's human nature to notice and somehow react to different or strange. But there's a huge difference between attacking (or even threatening) someone and making a joke (or choosing an actor of different sexual orientation) - first, like any unprovoked violence, isn't acceptable but to me the latter is perfectly fine.



This might just do nobody any good.
Vastly different degrees, depending on which group you’re talking about. Don’t try to lump all of that together and wonder why people react so strongly when they’re overlooked.



I think only transgender people should be allowed to discuss this.



Yes. I want to know the rules.

Transgender people have to now play transgender characters. So just so the whole world is on the same page - what are the rules regarding people certain sexualities playing characters of certain sexualities?

In order for this situation to not happen again, it would be useful to know what is frowned upon and what isn't.

I suspect though, that just by even bringing this up I'd be castigated if I was a person in the public eye.



The "rules" are always changing; they are whatever pleases the ever-outraged left at any given moment. However, as a good rule of thumb, whatever is against the straight, white male is probably within the "rules".



The Bib-iest of Nickels
The current controversy shrouding Scarlett Johansson and her portrayal of a transgender person is a sensitive topic I think deserves to be discussed in a rational fashion.

Something I was first curious about is something that has already been spoken about by representatives of the actress, that individuals like Jared Leto have portrayed transgender-characters and not only received large-scale praise but have been given considerable accolades for their effort, including an Academy Award for Leto. Some have quoted Leto for saying that, in hindsight, he wouldn't have accepted the role if he was offered it now, but that doesn't really change the established precedent. Leto played a transgender character and received a much warmer response for it, and no time until now can I recall individuals ever being so vocally upset about a situation like this. Although critics praised Laverne Cox for her role in the newer Rocky Horror special, Tim Curry's performance in the original film is still fondly looked at. If we want, we can split hairs about the differences in those characters, however. I think Scarlett is bearing the brunt of a social-change that wasn't prevalent years prior (even a couple years ago), and really, if we want to criticize the decision, that's one thing, but I don't think she should be singled-out as transphobic for accepting a role that a couple years ago might've received acclaim.

Being an actor or being an actress is about being able to be whatever you want. That's how I always looked at it.

However, it does come with certain caveats in-terms of how you handle certain sensitivities. For instance, Leonardo DiCaprio would be an offensive casting decision as the titular role in a biographical-drama film about Martin Luther King Jr., because King was an African American man and it would be disrespectful to portray a white actor as a black actor. In this same train of thought, however, can a parallel be made that a female-born actress portraying a transgender is offensive in the same respect?

Obviously, the difference between sexuality and race have to be acknowledged.

If the film in-question (Rub & Tug) is about Jean Marie Gill, born a woman who later identified as a man (although, I can't find any actual information that specifies if he underwent actual sexual changes), that's a role I feel Scarlett could portray without an actual barrier to speak of. She was a born a woman and, as a capable actress, should be able to get across the different emotions needed for such a complex character.

It seems like a lot of the conversation steers more toward the production itself and that Scarlett has been caught up in the crossfire, with a vocal group sharing the consensus the role is better suited for someone from the transgender community. And, I feel like that makes a lot of sense. But I don't necessarily know how much I agree that it makes the portrayal of such a character from somebody else as inherently wrong at the same level as a crudely done portrayal of race.

One other thing I wanted to talk about is, I've heard a lot of mentions of transgender actors who'd be better suited for the role, and I find that a lot of the names mentioned show a lot of people thinking with their heart more than their minds. In the example of this film, you have an obscure historical event, and would need someone with name-recognition to front the vehicle. From a business perspective, I can imagine the mind-set of, if we don't get somebody who can sell tickets, this film isn't going to be green-lit at all, because no transgender actor is in a position right now to move the needle.

Which brings us to the final point, if we operate under these principles, no transgender individual will be able to portray roles outside of transgender characters, and with .3% of the United States identifying as transgender, this way of thinking makes them getting any real foothold in the industry seem very bleak.



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These outrage mobs are full of the worst type of people - authoritarians. And yes, they can go **** themselves.
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However, it does come with certain caveats in-terms of how you handle certain sensitivities. For instance, Leonardo DiCaprio would be an offensive casting decision as the titular role in a biographical-drama film about Martin Luther King Jr., because King was an African American man and it would be disrespectful to portray a white actor as a black actor.
Surprisingly this has already been done the other way in Finland. There was a film about Mannerheim (A Finnish statesman and highly revered military figure from Finnish civil war to WW2) shot in Kenya and obviously having a black Kenyan actor in the lead. Funnily the film is also produced by YLE, a public broadcasting company, or in other words it was made with tax money.

The obvious outrage it caused was labeled as laughably stupid, racist, conservative and nationalistic by the leftist media and by the people who would be outraged by DiCaprio being cast as King Jr. It's funny how these things are liberal only when white person is replaced by something else.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2190421/



Surprisingly this has already been done the other way in Finland. There was a film about Mannerheim (A Finnish statesman and highly revered military figure from Finnish civil war to WW2) shot in Kenya and obviously having a black Kenyan actor in the lead. Funnily the film is also produced by YLE, a public broadcasting company, or in other words it was made with tax money.

The obvious outrage it caused was labeled as laughably stupid, racist, conservative and nationalistic by the leftist media and by the people who would be outraged by DiCaprio being cast as King Jr. It's funny how these things are liberal only when white person is replaced by something else.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2190421/

Fact:



Or versions of classic plays like Othello with an all black cast (except for the now traditionally played by a black man role of Othello himself).


http://www.playbill.com/article/patr...v-17-com-72158


It was considered daring and bold. If a traditionally all black play was being played by an all white cast, though, the protests would stop freeways and people would riot and scream racism and bloody murder.




Opinion validated by observation (nigh facts):



According to the liberals, it is o.k. to replace white historical figures and roles with non-white actors or actresses, but it is horrible, horrible "whitewashing" to replace non-white historical figures and roles with white actors or actresses.




Personal rant:



I hate double-standards. I loathe, abhor and despise them. Pick one rule and stick to it, but the left never will because they need it to always be malleable to whatever they need it to be at that moment.


/end rant



We've gone on holiday by mistake
Looking forward to the US slavery movie where all the plantation owners are played by black people and all the slaves whites.
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individuals like Jared Leto have portrayed transgender-characters and not only received large-scale praise but have been given considerable accolades for their effort, including an Academy Award for Leto. Some have quoted Leto for saying that, in hindsight, he wouldn't have accepted the role if he was offered it now, but that doesn't really change the established precedent. Leto played a transgender character and received a much warmer response for it, and no time until now can I recall individuals ever being so vocally upset about a situation like this.
I wonder if it's because Leto is perceived as androgynous to start with – a bit like Tilda Swinton, especially in her role as Orlando.

I think Scarlett is bearing the brunt of a social-change that wasn't prevalent years prior (even a couple years ago), and really, if we want to criticize the decision, that's one thing, but I don't think she should be singled-out as transphobic for accepting a role that a couple years ago might've received acclaim
No, I agree.

Being an actor or being an actress is about being able to be whatever you want. That's how I always looked at it.
Me too.

One other thing I wanted to talk about is, I've heard a lot of mentions of transgender actors who'd be better suited for the role, and I find that a lot of the names mentioned show a lot of people thinking with their heart more than their minds.
Definitely.



Welcome to the human race...
Define sh*tty. I think lesbians calling transgender men rapists and (allegedly) yelling death threats to them on London Pride is being sh*tty.
More than one thing can be sh*tty at a time - I think there's room for both of those.

Taking offense and demanding removal of everything offensive are two different things. Why should we pamper these people all the time? Why wouldn't it be better for them to learn to deal with some amount of being offended like the rest of us?
Like Saunch said, we are talking about groups that are disproportionately targeted to the point where it's understandable why they can be so offended about stuff like, say, having a chance at better representation be disregarded by Hollywood big-shots in favour of something that would play into the unfortunate stereotypes that already exist.

I think only transgender people should be allowed to discuss this.
I'm inclined to agree with this.

Obviously, the difference between sexuality and race have to be acknowledged.

If the film in-question (Rub & Tug) is about Jean Marie Gill, born a woman who later identified as a man (although, I can't find any actual information that specifies if he underwent actual sexual changes), that's a role I feel Scarlett could portray without an actual barrier to speak of. She was a born a woman and, as a capable actress, should be able to get across the different emotions needed for such a complex character.

It seems like a lot of the conversation steers more toward the production itself and that Scarlett has been caught up in the crossfire, with a vocal group sharing the consensus the role is better suited for someone from the transgender community. And, I feel like that makes a lot of sense. But I don't necessarily know how much I agree that it makes the portrayal of such a character from somebody else as inherently wrong at the same level as a crudely done portrayal of race.

One other thing I wanted to talk about is, I've heard a lot of mentions of transgender actors who'd be better suited for the role, and I find that a lot of the names mentioned show a lot of people thinking with their heart more than their minds. In the example of this film, you have an obscure historical event, and would need someone with name-recognition to front the vehicle. From a business perspective, I can imagine the mind-set of, if we don't get somebody who can sell tickets, this film isn't going to be green-lit at all, because no transgender actor is in a position right now to move the needle.

Which brings us to the final point, if we operate under these principles, no transgender individual will be able to portray roles outside of transgender characters, and with .3% of the United States identifying as transgender, this way of thinking makes them getting any real foothold in the industry seem very bleak.
Yeah, that's why I held off on drawing comparisons to blackface and the like - there's a complicated intertwining of which sub-groups have more privilege or adversity than one another and how all that relates to representation in art and entertainment that can't be so easily simplified into a 1:1 comparison.

As for the business side of things, there lies the problem - is it better to tell a story in a way that's "successful" but has to compromise its subject matter in the process or to not tell the story at all? If you half-ass it then you're liable to end up with the worst of both worlds where the people it's supposedly representing and their allies will chew you out over it (thus undermining its credibility) and the wider audience it's supposedly reaching is seeing it as The Movie Where Scarjo's Dressed Like A Guy Or Something (or otherwise assuming a level of authenticity that it ultimately lacks).

These outrage mobs are full of the worst type of people - authoritarians. And yes, they can go **** themselves.
This is how Trump became president.

I hate double-standards. I loathe, abhor and despise them. Pick one rule and stick to it, but the left never will because they need it to always be malleable to whatever they need it to be at that moment.
And yet...

The "rules" are always changing; they are whatever pleases the ever-outraged left at any given moment. However, as a good rule of thumb, whatever is against the straight, white male is probably within the "rules".
The reason why the "straight white male" is the constantly-opposed type is because he is the most privileged in society and generally has the most to benefit from (and least to suffer) in comparison to people who belong to different sub-groups. The power dynamics are such that you can't simply swap them around and cry double-standard - of course it would be different if you did an all-black play with white people because that is marginalising an already-marginalised sub-group, whereas the inverse is not liable to adversely impact white people's societal standing. The question is whether or not you'd be similar disdainful of the double-standards that do benefit straight white men.



Welcome to the human race...
A few too many people starting using it to mean freedom from personal responsibility for whatever speech they ended up giving.

Anyway, I thought Chypmunk's point was that it would make more sense to defer to the people most directly affected by this whole situation (i.e. actual trans people) rather than have the conversation be dominated on both sides by cis people as even the well-meaning cis people only have so much authority on the matter (if any).