Moe

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"... it is a splendid thing that for just 15 cents an American can go to a movie and look at the smiling face of a baby and forget his troubles."
-President Franklin Roosevelt

Typical moe scene:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rVjyCacsTL0

Moe is not a well defined word but here I used as its usually used by fans of animation and graphic novels as meaning a subgenre of comedy (that so far I am only aware of its existence in Japan, it can be from anywhere in principle) where cuteness is the only/main purpose and its not aimed at kids but at adults or teenagers.

Some moe titles mix in sexual elements but they are never by definition a major element, which is left to cuteness. Or anything for that matter: Some moe titles also mix military elements (Girls und Panzer) or fantasy elements or sport elements.

Anyway, interestingly moe apparently never existed before the year 2000 and gained traction around 2004-2005, now becoming a major element of manga and its related medias, though I am not aware of any live action adaptations of moe titles but I cannot be sure (the super cute designs don't work in adaptions unless it preserves the drawn art, hence I know there are moe anime, moe games and moe novels as well).

The first moe thing I am aware of is Azumanga Daioh, though its not pure moe, it mixes up too many other elements of comedy to be pure moe but its from 1999 hence the oldest moe manga I know (manga is read right to left)


Though pure moe emerged a few years later. K-On! Is the canonical example of pure moe, and its film is perhaps the first major theatrical moe film ever made. Which is why I nominated it for the HoF (being a pionner it might gain the same status of films like Nosferatu in the horror genre, maybe, probably not because moe is apparently not of universal appeal unlike horror).

Pure moe:


Miazaki himself criticized the moe artistic movement. Because it treats women like pets, which is in a way true but the thing is that men portrayed as pets wouldn't work I guess. Though minami ke has strong moe elements and includes several male characters. Anyway, Miazaki is a curmudgeon who also critized direct to video animation saying it depicts violence for its own sake and objectify women. He forgot to watch Gunbuster I guess. Anyway, I find it strange that it took so long for this genre to emenrge considering the basic instics it appeals to. And even now it only exists in Japan (apparently).



I'm not old, you're just 12.
I don't think this is in the right subforum. It's not really about movies. That said, I thought we were going to talk about Moe Howard.
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I thought we were going to talk about Moe Howard.
Or Moe Szyslak from the Simpsons.



I'm not old, you're just 12.
I was just thinking it could go in the miscellaneous chat section instead of movie discussion since it mostly references comics. I'll admit to not knowing anything about the genre, and from what you've said it doesn't seem like my cup of tea, but feel free to discuss it all you want.



Guap, I'm interested in all the Japanese social cultures , I think it's fascinating . I'm always curious about all the fashion sub cultures too ever since I saw Kamikaze Girls a few years back. It's all quite intriguing.



I will ask my question about K-On as opposed to Moe since that is what I have seen. What about K-On makes you think it is not geared for children? Why does it offend you that many would say it is?

I will use Lion King as an example as I love it and the story is basically a adaptation of an adult work. It is obviously made with children in mind even though there are aspects that appeal to adults and I enjoy it on that level. I love Star Wars beimg fully aware that it is something that will mostly appeal to teenage boys. There is nothing wrong with enjoying these films. We don't have to pretend they are something are not because they ate our faves and we are adults now.

I think that you are of the opinion that people are begrudging you your love of anime. When I think most of us end up having problems when you try to elevate it to something intellectually superior when people don't love it like you.



That's because I nominated a moe film to the HoF here. People didn't appear to see why someone would like it and what it was about. So I made a thread about the genre.
So, why would someone like it? What is the appeal? Serious question, I understand what it is but I haven't learnt much more from this thread so far.



Its cool. And its different from the usual form of entertainment, as well, I didn't know it existed until 2013 myself.

Now why is a hard question. Why should I watch drama, comedy, action or horror? I like all basic genres of fiction (science fiction, westerns and magical girls and gangsters are more of a type of fiction containing a set of tropes/type of setting rather than basic types of emotion they seek to arose). Azumabga Daioh manga, Yotsuba manga (especially) and the TV series K-On!! (2010) and Azumanga Daioh (2002) are the best stuff of the genre I know so far.



I shouldn't try to convince anybody to watch it/read it, if you are interested or not, its your choice. Like any field or genre.



I will ask my question about K-On as opposed to Moe since that is what I have seen. What about K-On makes you think it is not geared for children? Why does it offend you that many would say it is?
Because its classified as an adult manga. Its not open for debate and if you think its form children than only means, well, that you do not know it. Because you don't know the subculture. In American culture, cute stuff is for children, in Japanese culture, not quite and in the otaku subculture in particular (Japanese adult nerd culture), moe stuff has became popular in recent years, yes, it doesn't look like from an Western point of view that K-On is aimed at the same public as playboy magazine but, it is.

Most of the public which consumes moe merchandise are males in their 30's. Though in the anime encyclopedia its says K-On in particular targets males in their 20s. Overall it is not disputable that K-On was not made for children nor teenager nor girls nor women. This is obvious for anyone who is into comics or animation.

I will use Lion King as an example as I love it and the story is basically a adaptation of an adult work. It is obviously made with children in mind even though there are aspects that appeal to adults and I enjoy it on that level. I love Star Wars beimg fully aware that it is something that will mostly appeal to teenage boys. There is nothing wrong with enjoying these films. We don't have to pretend they are something are not because they ate our faves and we are adults now.
Nobody is pretending anything. Lion King is for children, Star Wars is for teenager boys and K-On is for adult males, that's the technical classification. Totoro is for children and its in my top 10.

Princess Monoke, Nausicaa are for teenager boys and young adult males (slightly more mature than Star Wars), Castle in the Sky is for 12 year old boys, like Star Wars. K-On and PMMM are classified for adult males, not classified for children, nor teenagers or for women. Only Yesterday's original manga is classified as women's manga, Whisper of the Heart is for teenager gilrs.

Any questions?

I think that you are of the opinion that people are begrudging you your love of anime. When I think most of us end up having problems when you try to elevate it to something intellectually superior when people don't love it like you.
"It"? There exists intellectually sophisticated animation, like Psycho Pass, Kaiba or Hyouge Mono, Haibane Renmei or that Utena film. PMMM is way more sophisticated than typical blockbuster movies, its not as elegant as art films like Tarkovaky's though.

There exist children's stuff thats intellectually sophisticated as well, like Spirited Away. And adult stuff that's not such as The Road Warrior. Intellectual sophistication is not even correlated with the age of the target audience, children in fact are smarter on average than adults whose brains have lower adaptability.

K-On is not intellectually sophisticated, nor any moe titles. They are visceral titles but not made for children. Just like porn movies or violent movies but focusing on cuteness instead of violence or sex. They are not made for children, but for teenagers (Azumanga Daioh) or for adults (K-On).



Overall it is not disputable that K-On was not made for children. This is obvious for anyone who is into animation.
It is very debatable, but my guess is you only want to have this conversation with someone who has watched every single piece of anime in existence. So I guess I am out.


Who hurt you?
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Guap, I'm interested in all the Japanese social cultures , I think it's fascinating . I'm always curious about all the fashion sub cultures too ever since I saw Kamikaze Girls a few years back. It's all quite intriguing.
Indeed. The subcultures they have are rich and varied. Japan is the first large nonwestern country to become industrialized and so they developed quite distinct subcultures than western countries have. The US and Europe are have many subcultures, I myself am a member of the heavy metal subculture, which is mostly western, and I even had beard and long hair about 5 years ago.



It is very debatable, but my guess is you only want to have this conversation with someone who has watched every single piece of anime in existence. So I guess I am out.
K-On is classified as adult male manga. That'd not debatable.

Read this:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ForLittleGirls

"Youtube user: Is this a children's show? If so, why is there a picture of girl mounting another girl lying on the floor?
Uploader: It's NOT a children show.
— Comments on the opening to Hidamari Sketch

So you find a new show and it has an all female cast, lots of pastel colors, and Tastes Like Diabetes levels of cuteness. And you think "this would be a perfect show for my eight-year-old sister."
And then you discover that the show airs at three AM and has a fandom that's mostly 16 to 40 year-old males who consider the girls to be lesbians."

I am talking to you and you have watches less anime than I have watched Iranian film. I am always willing to talk about anything here because I love this forum.

Who hurt you?
It makes me upset that you insist on your opinions of things you don't know anything about.



Serious question: Do you not think the fascination with these (from my point of view) highly sexualised little girls a little odd? I don't understand the appeal, and I think it's an issue a lot of people have with anime (I know, there's lot of types, but still, of course people with highlight parts that they think are bad). I remember watching Porco Rosso which could have been great as a serious film then there was a part with loads of screaming little girls who were laughing too, like I didn't understand who this was meant to entertain? Why would people enjoy this?



[quote=Guaporense;1319897]
It is very debatable, but my guess is you only want to have this conversation with someone who has watched every single piece of anime in existence.


K-On is classified as adult male manga. That'd not debatable.

Read this:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ForLittleGirls

I am talking to you and you have watches less anime than I have watched Iranian film.



It makes me upset that you insist on your opinions of things you don't know anything about. Well, that's the platonic definition of, well, an idiot.

I am sorry I decided to engage in this conversation. You never want to have conversations with people, you only want to "teach" us. It gets tiring. Conversations must run two ways to be productive. You continue to belittle anyone who doesn't agree with you. Then you wonder why people post pictures of Moe in your thread instead of taking you seriously. You are not the only one on this forum that likes anime, yet I never see anyone else getting the same types of arguments over and over. You have been shoving this K-On thing down our throat since the HOF, and guess what we all watched the movie. Most of us don't need to read an article to tell us where we should classify it and how we should feel about it. I already knew you thought I was an idiot, guess what I am okay with it. You need to learn to play well with others.