Children of Men

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Well, with a documentary, you already KNOW and EXPECT a camera to be on the scene ... so, seeing things like splatters on the lens wouldn't confuse you.

With the shoulder-held cam thing in COM, I thought the effect was supposed to be more of getting you to experience what it's like to be running and dodging just like he is ... but NOT to notice the presence of a camera. It's a subtle difference, but in my mind, an important one.

I don't mean to belabor this point. It was one of about two things I disliked about the movie. (Is anyone going to hassle me about that end credits business? LOL.)

I just still don't "get" how it keeps you more in the experience of the movie. Once you notice a camera, you're out of the story and back to being a movie-watcher.



Here is an interesting analysis and take on the film; Slavoj Zizek

hxxp://xxx.youtube.com/watch?v=pbgrwNP_gYE

Of course worthy to mention the long shots taken, also an interesting point is to compare this to Pan's Labyrinth and the subject of Hope sourounded by darkness by the director in two of the films and the out comes.
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Children of Men (2006)
I love a good concept film. Jim Carrey endowed with God's powers for a week? I'm intrigued. A serial killer who adopts the seven deadly sins as his MO? I'm there. The world has devolved into chaos because women have stopped having children? Just tell me where to sign up.

The last of those three is, of course, the premise behind Children of Men, a strikingly perceptive film that sometimes looks like it takes place in the aftermath of a massive nuclear war. It actually takes place in London in 2027. Fragments of a somewhat futuristic society (dazzling monitors and adverts punctuate almost every scene) contrast with the debris and violence. Without the investment in the future that children represent, our more destructive tendencies are going untamed, and society is beginning to collapse.

Clive Owen in Children of Men
Clive Owen plays Theo Faron, a former activist who apparently couldn't beat the government bureaucracy, and decided to join them instead. On the outside, Theo is aloof, unaffected, and sarcastic. But on the inside he, like the rest of the species, is waiting for something to awaken his hope and idealism. And one day, he finds it: a pregnant woman named Kee (played by the appropriately named Claire-Hope Ashitey). He joins up with a group of people keen on overthrowing the establishment, and they begin an effort to deliver Kee to a group of scientists called The Human Project in hopes of finding a "cure" for mankind's infertility.

Amazingly, director Alfonso Cuarón has made a science fiction film about the downfall of society that doesn't include stale warnings of nuclear winter or artificial intelligence. The real danger, we are told, is within, a point which is emphasized through a surprising betrayal.

The film is surely a cautionary tale, but generally has the good sense to let us decide what it is we're being cautioned against. The infertility depicted in the film could represent any number of things. It could be a consequence of pollution, or punishment for a cavalier attitude towards the sanctity of life, or simply the natural result of humanity taking its status and abilities for granted. We're not given an explicit moral, though several clumsy attempts are made to shoehorn the issue of immigration into the proceedings. These are presumably emphasized in an attempt to make the film seem more relevant, but the themes here are so broad and timeless that zeroing in on this one issue steals some of the film's considerable elegance.

Most of the performances are sublime, from Owen's cynical Theo, to Michael Caine's ease and humor. Ashitey is passable as the potential savior of all humanity, but seems like a bit of a caricature at times, perhaps because most of the people around her are deathly serious. The film goes to great lengths, however, to relieve the considerable tension (which is almost unbearable at times) with random moments of levity, every one of which rings true, no matter how irreverant.

Clive Owen and Claire-Hope Ashitey in Children of Men
Surprisingly absent from the tale is the issue of religion. Most of the major characters spend the duration of the film trying to protect Kee from those who would senselessly harm her. The historical irony of us once again trying to protect a savior from the very people needing to be saved is apparently lost on them.

These flaws notwithstanding, Children of Men is a borderline masterpiece. It is technically brilliant and occasionally funny, but consistently poignant. For all the pessimism on the surface, the film is optimistic at its core. It depicts a world not without hope, but in which hope is dormant, waiting for a spark to ignite it again.
I'm glad there is already a review thread on Children of Men I can respond to.

I think your review of the film, Yoda, is a well-written, thoughtful one - I just happen not to agree with it.

I too like a good concept film. Children of Men is definitely a concept film; however, imo, not a good one. The concept itself is good and original, but once it has been fully revealed half way through, there is not much else of interest in the movie.

WARNING: "Plot points" spoilers below
After we discover that Kee is pregnant, the plot devolves into a series of hackneyed escape/chase scenes. In terms of acting, Julianne Moore and then Michael Caine - both of whom deliver good performances, particularly Caine -are killed off in short order. And then we are left almost solely with Clive Owen, Claire-Hope Ashitey and Pam Ferris (as a cartoonish, mantra-chanting midwife).

Like you said, Yoda, Ashitey's performance is not good, and while Owen's is, it isn't good enough to rescue the rest of the movie.


The first half of the movie is strong - strong enough that it kept me watching for the rest of it, hoping for an interesting twist or two that never came. The sets of London are great, and it feels like a realistic representation of an apocalyptic scenario where one city state is waging a futile battle to hang on to the remnants of its civilization and to stave off total anarchy. And I agree with you about the claustrophobic feel, especially in these London scenes.

My favorite scene is Michael Caine and Clive Owen getting high with each other. I've seen Caine in countless roles, but it must be the first time I've seen him play a cynical intellectual hippy - and he's outstanding in the role.

I'm intrigued by a certain line of inquiry in your review, Yoda. You speculate that one of the possible reasons for the global infertility could be 'punishment for a cavalier attitude towards the sanctity of life.' Surely, this is your own personal reading. Like you noted, religious inferences are absent from the film - aside from a bit of genuflecting near the end. While you say that the issue of religion is 'surprisingly abesent,' I actually thought the avoidance of religion and any kind of moral explanation or trajectory was one of the movie's strong points.

WARNING: "Plot points" spoilers below
You mention a couple of times that Kee is a 'savior.' To the extent that she's a savior of humanity, she is so in a solely physical sense. In fact, she herself preempts any illusions that she is some type of holy figure by sarcastically saying that she is a virgin and that her pregnancy was by immaculate conception. She immediately proceeds to say that she's been with so many men that she has no idea who the father is.

Clearly, the fact that Kee is the only known pregnant woman on the planet seems to be purely accidental. And this provides a good contrast to her being upheld as some kind of 'savior' - and to all those who are fighting over her fate.


There was lots of potential in this movie. It's always more of a disappointment to watch a film that starts off strong and fails to deliver than one that can be easily dismissed from the beginning.

I'd rate it a 5.5/10



I think your review of the film, Yoda, is a well-written, thoughtful one - I just happen not to agree with it.
No sweat. And thanks. Wrote it awhile ago, though. It was right around the time I think I started writing reviews that weren't completely terrible (that's not false modesty, either).

I too like a good concept film. Children of Men is definitely a concept film; however, imo, not a good one. The concept itself is good and original, but once it has been fully revealed half way through, there is not much else of interest in the movie.
A fair point. I've seen it once, so it's possible I was sustained by my curiosity. If I saw it again, I might think a lot less of it. But I'm not really sure how much I should penalize a film for its lack of rewatchability. Creating enough curiosity to get us both through the second half is still a feat of sorts, after all.

I'm intrigued by a certain line of inquiry in your review, Yoda. You speculate that one of the possible reasons for the global infertility could be 'punishment for a cavalier attitude towards the sanctity of life.' Surely, this is your own personal reading. Like you noted, religious inferences are absent from the film - aside from a bit of genuflecting near the end. While you say that the issue of religion is 'surprisingly abesent,' I actually thought the avoidance of religion and any kind of moral explanation or trajectory was one of the movie's strong points.
Well, all three of the possibilities I list are my personal reading, in the sense that they're all speculation. And to be even-handed, I listed one that aligns well with my politics, one that doesn't, and one that doesn't especially tilt in either direction. The point being, of course, that the film leaves the reason unexplained and is thus a vacuum for most people to either recognize as deliberate, or else fill with whatever worldview they brought into the film.

As for the absence of religion or "any kind of moral explanation"--let me make an important distinction: I'm not necessarily criticizing the film for lacking an explanation, moral or otherwise. I'm criticizing it for creating some alternate universe where religion seems not to even exist. For a film that seems to be trying awfully hard to seem realistic, that's a pretty big deal, because any world where this sort of change doesn't spark a lot of religious introspection simply isn't our world.

WARNING: "Plot points" spoilers below
You mention a couple of times that Kee is a 'savior.' To the extent that she's a savior of humanity, she is so in a solely physical sense. In fact, she herself preempts any illusions that she is some type of holy figure by sarcastically saying that she is a virgin and that her pregnancy was by immaculate conception. She immediately proceeds to say that she's been with so many men that she has no idea who the father is.

Clearly, the fact that Kee is the only known pregnant woman on the planet seems to be purely accidental. And this provides a good contrast to her being upheld as some kind of 'savior' - and to all those who are fighting over her fate.
WARNING: "Children of Men" spoilers below
I don't think I implied anything metaphysical the first time. The second, however, is simply noting the irony: the film omits religion completely, but can't hope to tell a story like this without creating parallels to it; deliberately or otherwise. Which in turn only makes the absence more conspicuous.


There was lots of potential in this movie. It's always more of a disappointment to watch a film that starts off strong and fails to deliver than one that can be easily dismissed from the beginning.

I'd rate it a 5.5/10
Sounds like we agree on the general flow of things. My rating's higher merely because I thought the setup and the first half are good enough to carry the rest of the film. And because...

WARNING: "Children of Men" spoilers below
...the scene where the soldiers stop firing and they walk out of the building is breathtaking.

But, if you're a little less in awe of that scene, and value consistency a little more, then the rating makes sense. I can't complain.



Good responses.

And I can understand this point you make


As for the absence of religion or "any kind of moral explanation"--let me make an important distinction: I'm not necessarily criticizing the film for lacking an explanation, moral or otherwise. I'm criticizing it for creating some alternate universe where religion seems not to even exist. For a film that seems to be trying awfully hard to seem realistic, that's a pretty big deal, because any world where this sort of change doesn't spark a lot of religious introspection simply isn't our world.

Personally, I was more struck by the fact that, twenty years in the future, there could not be seen any advances in auto engineering, clothes fashion, linguistic nuance (aside from a curious use of the word suave) and most notably music.

But I guess this could be explained, as another poster in this thread suggested, by the fact that an inability to procreate might have an extremely adverse effect on all other creative juices.

In a side note, although Y Tu Mama Tambien, one of Alfonso Cuaron's other films, is a completely different kettle of fish, I had a similar response (although I haven't seen it again since it first came out). It started out full of promise as a spicy, sexy coming of age menage a trois Mrs Robinson film all rolled into one. But it didn't seem to take the characters or the audience anywhere very interesting.

I probably like The Assassination of Richard Nixon the most of Cuaron's films I've seen - and that was mainly on the strength of Sean Penn's performance.



"that was mainly on the strength of Sean Penn's performance"

sigh...
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Not gonna touch on the lack of religious themes because I really don't care about that. Seems beside the point and the topic wouldn't really come up very naturally, given the conversations presented throughout the film. My curiosity is piqued but I don't think the exclusion is with considerable detriment to the film. Some research does show that Cuaron implemented religious themes in more abstract capacities.

What I want to talk about is:
WARNING: "the end" spoilers below
Who thinks Theo died at the end? Who thinks he survived? Why? Maybe think hard before proclaiming you know with 100% certainty.
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Not gonna touch on the lack of religious themes because I really don't care about that. Seems beside the point and the topic wouldn't really come up very naturally, given the conversations presented throughout the film. My curiosity is piqued but I don't think the exclusion is with considerable detriment to the film.

What I want to talk about is:
WARNING: "the end" spoilers below
Who thinks Theo died at the end? Who thinks he survived? Why? Maybe think hard before proclaiming you know with 100% certainty.
WARNING: "spoiler" spoilers below
I think he died. I didn't give it much thought. By that point I was pretty fed up with the movie.

Now I'll give it a bit of thought.

There was a big pool of blood in the rowboat that was emanating from a high-powered rifle/machine gun bullet wound in his abdomen. He had probably been shot at least an hour earlier - he had to make it downstairs in the apartment building, slowly through all those soldiers, meet the gypsy women, have her take them to the boat, then row through the underground canal, out to sea etc to the buoy. All that without staunching the wound/blood loss and lots of physical exertion which would make him bleed more quickly. By the time the ship appeared and he had collapsed, his face looked very pale - like he had bled out.

The fact that Kee didn't try to slap him around to get him to regain consciousness seems to imply that she too figured he had died. Then again, that might be a reflection of her character's clueless nature.



WARNING: "spoiler" spoilers below
I think he died. I didn't give it much thought. By that point I was pretty fed up with the movie.

Now I'll give it a bit of thought.

There was a big pool of blood in the rowboat that was emanating from a high-powered rifle/machine gun bullet wound in his abdomen. He had probably been shot at least an hour earlier - he had to make it downstairs in the apartment building, slowly through all those soldiers, meet the gypsy women, have her take them to the boat, then row through the underground canal, out to sea etc to the buoy. All that without staunching the wound/blood loss and lots of physical exertion which would make him bleed more quickly. By the time the ship appeared and he had collapsed, his face looked very pale - like he had bled out.

The fact that Kee didn't try to slap him around to get him to regain consciousness seems to imply that she too figured he had died. Then again, that might be a reflection of her character's clueless nature.
WARNING: "the end" spoilers below
The following depends on director's intent (something you nor I can know for sure unless it's disclosed elsewhere or either of us get to speak with Cuaron):

I think it is impossible for anyone to say with certainty, as you have, what happened to Theo. The film does not explicitly state in any way that Theo is dead, unconscious, or otherwise. The fact that Cuaron cuts to that shot of Theo "dead, unconscious, or otherwise" while Kee reassures either her daughter or Theo that they'll be safe because the boat is arriving. The shot of a "dead, unconscious, or otherwise" Theo cuts back to Kee while she looks at Theo. There is no implied head movement, leading to the likely conclusion that she is speaking to Theo. This one-way exchange is granted added significance in that the film could have simply stayed on Kee and let her finish, cutting to Theo at the end of her line and letting the sounds of the sea, the boat, and the buoy do their own little number for haunting dramatic effect. This editing choice is significant because it causes the viewer to subconsciously (if only for fractions of a second) question who the off-screen character is addressing. It could have been shot and cut together many different ways, but it was chosen to appear as such. Further, Kee could have employed physical stimuli in an attempt to potentially wake Theo, but she doesn't. Given her on-screen history of occasional hysterics (maybe excitement or anxiety are better, less weighted words for it), one would think she would have the curiosity or even sense about to her to touch Theo if only to verify his status. This likely exchange is also - perhaps intentionally - never shown on screen. Admittedly, it is merely with hope that I assume Cuaron considers the weight of every single shot and sound. Most good directors care deeply about the minutiae like that, so it is reasonable to consider that Cuaron may have made the aforementioned creative decisions to communicate certain things. Based on the conventions used in the presentation of Theo's descent into "death, unconsciousness, or otherwise," it is likely Theo's fate is left open, if only in a subtle way.

tl;dr Cuaron seems to put a nuanced yet striking emphasis on Kee reassuring who appears to be Theo that they will be safe. This in combination with several other "little things" suggests that Theo's is not certainly dead or alive. Openness to audience interpretation is heavily implied, though possibly accidental. Without Cuaron's retroactive input, there is literally no way to know for sure what happened.

Now, someone I spoke to has a draft of the script in which the text states that Theo dies, but the script has not only gone through multiple writers, but likely notably different drafts. If someone can access the shooting script and find something from Cuaron saying he adhered to that detail, we'd know for sure.



Cuaron only produced Richard Nixon.
I stand corrected - although who stands while typing on a computer?

I guess there's no Cuaron film that's left me with an overall positive impression.



WARNING: "Theo" spoilers below
What does it really matter if Theo lives or dies? How would that affect the ending for you one way or another? More specifically, how would his death or his continued life add or detract from whatever meaning the movie had?


By the way, this is not a snide question stemming from the fact that I didn't think much of the movie as a whole. I'm generally interested to know how this would have made a difference to the film and to you as a viewer.



WARNING: "Theo" spoilers below
What does it really matter if Theo lives or dies? How would that affect the ending for you one way or another? More specifically, how would his death or his continued life add or detract from whatever meaning the movie had?
WARNING: "the end" spoilers below
Heard this argument before, too (that Theo's death is insignificant).

The death of a film's chief protagonist is never insignificant in any capacity. It may be downplayed for comedic effect or for another reason altogether (No Country for Old Men), but it's never wholly unimportant. To say it does not even have the most minute effect on the continuation of Kee's journey is risky.

It is at least a little bit important because, in the film, dialogue raises doubts about the Human Project's true intentions. Theo's death or survival carries significance if the Human Project is not what they seem. He would no longer be able to protect her as he had throughout the film. Notice that this question is not explicitly resolved by the cut to the title card. Again, totally depends on how deeply Cuaron considered each minute plot point and frame. It is possible he just thought the final shot was cool, but unless someone can link me to an interview or something where Cuaron states Theo dies (I looked but could not find) or that he did not intentionally leave it open, I'm going to stick with the "it's for the viewer to guess" position.



I understand what you're saying.

I guess to care enough about characters to extrapolate their fates beyond the conclusion of a movie requires caring enough about the movie that they're part of. Perhaps that's where we part ways on this one.



I understand what you're saying.

I guess to care enough about characters to extrapolate their fates beyond the conclusion of a movie requires caring enough about the movie that they're part of. Perhaps that's where we part ways on this one.
Yeah, that's probably where, lol. It's a favorite of mine.



I saw religious elements in the film. The group chanting repent repent, obvious based on history of some of our religions. Also, a miracle happens; this proves to be divisive to the organization causing a power struggle within to control it, to use it. That sounds very familiar history of religions.

Personally, I was more struck by the fact that, twenty years in the future, there could not be seen any advances in auto engineering, clothes fashion, linguistic nuance (aside from a curious use of the word suave) and most notably music.

But I guess this could be explained, as another poster in this thread suggested, by the fact that an inability to procreate might have an extremely adverse effect on all other creative juices.
I didn't notice that. Pretty interesting observation, it makes sense. If you look at the driving force behind cultural change, especially music and fashion; it's driven by the young. No one has be born for 20 years, makes sense things stagnated since then.


Here is an interesting analysis and take on the film; Slavoj Zizek

hxxp://xxx.youtube.com/watch?v=pbgrwNP_gYE

Of course worthy to mention the long shots taken, also an interesting point is to compare this to Pan's Labyrinth and the subject of Hope sourounded by darkness by the director in two of the films and the out comes.
thanks for that link, very interesting take.