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ufc 119 looks set to be brock vs cane glad its happening straight away.



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ufc 119 looks set to be brock vs cane glad its happening straight away.
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"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo.



No way that it's gonna be 119. That takes place on September 25. There is no chance that Brock returns to the octagonthat fast. A realistic date for the Lesnar-Velasquez fight is December.

Having rewatched most of the fights, I have to say that these were all ***** matches in terms of the skills that were on display. I'll limit myself to the main event, which was dubbed as "the biggest heavyweight fight in UFC history" and the battle for the top spot in the MMA heavyweight division. And what did we see?

Brock got hit with one clean shot and backed up in a straight line with his arms in front of his head like a kid from elementary school who is getting hit by the school bully.

Then there was Carwin who gassed after 1 round. Can anyone please explain to me how it is possible that a top 5 MMA (top 3 UFC) heavyweight gasses after throwing punches in a downward angle at a guy for about a minute and a half? He was done after that first round, totally gassed out, he fell to the floor like a sack of potatoes. He can say his cardio is fine and what not, fact is that he was totally out of breath after that first round. Did he train cardio at all? It's hilarious to see how some retards on MMA forums were saying that it's "normal" for someone to gas out after throwing punches for 2 minutes. Oh really? Then why are boxers able to keep going for 36 minutes of throwing punches at each other?

Were these the best HWs the UFC has to offer? Uncle Dana can talk all he wants about how great and exciting that fight was, the truth is that skill-wise, this was utter garbage. It might of been exciting for jocks and teenyboppers who just enjoy seeing 2 gorrila's taking each other on, but I was mostly thinking: why is Brock backing up like a little girl instead of looking at Carwin who was swinging for the fences with his chin up. If he had boxing fundamentals, he could of caught Shane with a mean counterpunch that would of saved him that 2 minutes worth of punishment.

The truth is that the 2 best HWs are in Strikeforce right now. Fedor and Overeem would tool these 2 guys, especially Overeem. Overeem is not a product of the UFC hype machine like Brock, Carwin and very soon Cain and JDS, but he would destroy these guys. It wouldn't even be close...

Of course, I'm not entirely negative of the UFC roster. They have the best LHW, MW, WW and LW. But the best HW? Not a chance. They never did.



You guys ready to let the dogs out?
I've just come back to the forum after ages so haven't really read through the thread fully. Just some thoughts on the UFC, being a big MMA fan:

I think Overeem is a serious threat to any heavyweight in the UFC, if they ever sign him they could have some great matches. His knees would be lethal for Brock and may deter him from going for the very early take down. Having said that, I think Cain will be a more serious threat for Lesnar even though I have him taking the fight by 2nd round TKO. JDS is the guy I really want to see taking Brock on, he's got KO power and good Jits. I see Brock using the same strategy he used against Mir though and taking him to the ground and staying close to him, not allowing him to lock on any subs.

On a sidenote, Downthesun's MMA Prospects:

Lightweight: Ross Pearson, Evan Dunham, Joe Ellenberger
Welterweight: Ben Askren, John Hathaway, Johny Hendricks, Rory McDonald
Middleweight: Gerald Harris
LHW: Phil Davis, Ryan Bader, Jon Jones
Heavyweight: Todd Duffee, Cole Konrad, Chad Corvin, Damian Grabowski



Keep on Rockin in the Free World
The Truth is Strikeforce is considered the B circuit.

Top to bottem teh UFC simply has the best fighters, really that isn't debateable.

saying what fedor would or would not do is moot as he is refusing to step into the octagan to fight the best.

did the ufc hype machine beat overeem or did Lidell?

let me guess, you are a Pride Fan bois from way back.

as to the other bouts, Leben didn't impress you?

He'll kill Wandy. Real Talk.
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You guys ready to let the dogs out?
Were these the best HWs the UFC has to offer? Uncle Dana can talk all he wants about how great and exciting that fight was, the truth is that skill-wise, this was utter garbage. It might of been exciting for jocks and teenyboppers who just enjoy seeing 2 gorrila's taking each other on, but I was mostly thinking: why is Brock backing up like a little girl instead of looking at Carwin who was swinging for the fences with his chin up. If he had boxing fundamentals, he could of caught Shane with a mean counterpunch that would of saved him that 2 minutes worth of punishment.

The truth is that the 2 best HWs are in Strikeforce right now. Fedor and Overeem would tool these 2 guys, especially Overeem. Overeem is not a product of the UFC hype machine like Brock, Carwin and very soon Cain and JDS, but he would destroy these guys. It wouldn't even be close...

Of course, I'm not entirely negative of the UFC roster. They have the best LHW, MW, WW and LW. But the best HW? Not a chance. They never did.
Regardless of how much the UFC hypes him, JDS is the real deal, he's taken out Gonzaga, Werdum, Struve, Yvel and CroCop. I'd back him to take out Nelson and I'd take him over Overeem.

I don't buy in to all this Overeem hype as well, he got absoloutly destroyed by Shogun twice, hasn't beaten anyone great other than CroCop and Belfort. He's also lost to Werdum, Lil Nog and Chuck although that was back in the day.



Keep on Rockin in the Free World
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to get him back in so soon. I think they'll save it for the monster show they do every year round the christmas holidays.


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I'm not sure if Toney, is stoned, drunk, or simply punch-drunk. he's got the speech patterns of a 4 yr old.

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The Truth is Strikeforce is considered the B circuit.

Top to bottem teh UFC simply has the best fighters, really that isn't debateable.

saying what fedor would or would not do is moot as he is refusing to step into the octagan to fight the best.

did the ufc hype machine beat overeem or did Lidell?

let me guess, you are a Pride Fan bois from way back.

as to the other bouts, Leben didn't impress you?

He'll kill Wandy. Real Talk.
Yeah, I know that Strikeforce isn't really held in as high regard as the UFC. I also said that the UFC does indeed have the best fighters in every division. Except the HW division. Overeem would kill all these UFC top heavyweights. Fedor would as well imo.

Dexter, you criticize what I say, but your counter arguments aren't really relevant. Yes, Fedor refused to sign with the UFC, because the UFC wouldn't let M1 co-promote the events that Fedor is in. It's not so that Fedor is afraid to fight these top guys in order to keep his # 1 spot at the HW division. Fedor would fight anyone. It's just because of his management that he couldn't reach a deal with the UFC.

Yes, Overeem got beaten by Liddell and Werdum and Lil Nog and Shogun. At LHW or MW. Ubereem has stated numerous times that he feels much better at HW, because he always had a lot of difficulty to cut the weight to make 205. This often caused him to gas. At HW, he no longer has that problem and his skill set has only improved.

Have you guys seen his K1 fights? The guy is a beast. He has a super defence, K1-level striking, his knees have destroyed top K1 guys, his muay thai clinch is excellent and he has submission skills. He is the complete war machine.

What does Brock have? He's a big, strong guy who can take a punch and has some wrestling skills. Other than that, he has nothing. Is that the guy who is supposed to be the # 1 MMA HW nowadays? A guy who backs up in a straight line like a little kid after getting hit with 1 clean shot? Is Carwin supposed to be top 5? A guy who can't make it past round 1 without gassing?

And Toney is punch-drunk. You can't understand half of what he's saying. That's what 83 professional boxing bouts will do to you.



Keep on Rockin in the Free World
Fedor is a small heavyweight. His greatness is all behind him. Thats why you won't see him in the UFC. Fedor the brand is based upon him being an unstoppable cyborg.

Maybe the Fertitas should employ the chicken strategy employed by Apollo's handlers in Rocky 2.

I've been hearing rumblings from some that would like to see Carwin face Cro-cop next.

Mirko is a perfect example of a stud k-1 guy that simply cannot xcell in the cage. he hasn't evolved past devastating leg kicks. thats all he's got, and imo in todays HW class where guys are 250 plus, that simply isnt enough.


What does Brock have? he has the HW strap of the most recognized and respected MMA organization in the world.

And he's getten better. he's still a few years from his prime. That he gave up full mount to go for the choke, to make taht split second decision, displayed a huge maturation to his game.



You guys ready to let the dogs out?
If Fedor seriously wanted to fight the best heavyweights in the world he would have made sure his management sorted out a deal with the UFC. M1 are a bunch of clowns, thinking a company like the UFC which has worked for years to build it's brand name and fighter roster would share some of it's ppv revenue with them. Dana White said the deal they offered him was one of the largest they've ever offered and Fedor decided to turn it down. I do believe he would do extremely well in the UFC but I do think the likes of Cain, Lesnar and JDS would cause Fedor problems.



Keep on Rockin in the Free World
Fedor is a small heavyweight. His greatness is all behind him. Thats why you won't see him in the UFC. Fedor the brand is based upon him being an unstoppable cyborg.

Maybe the Fertitas should employ the chicken strategy employed by Apollo's handlers in Rocky 2.




What does Brock have? he has the HW strap of the most recognized and respected MMA organization in the world.

And he's getten better. he's still a few years from his prime. That he gave up full mount to go for the choke, to make taht split second decision, displayed a huge maturation to his game.
If Fedor seriously wanted to fight the best heavyweights in the world he would have made sure his management sorted out a deal with the UFC. M1 are a bunch of clowns, thinking a company like the UFC which has worked for years to build it's brand name and fighter roster would share some of it's ppv revenue with them. Dana White said the deal they offered him was one of the largest they've ever offered and Fedor decided to turn it down. I do believe he would do extremely well in the UFC but I do think the likes of Cain, Lesnar and JDS would cause Fedor problems.

Dexter, you criticize what I say, but your counter arguments aren't really relevant. Yes, Fedor refused to sign with the UFC, because the UFC wouldn't let M1 co-promote the events that Fedor is in. It's not so that Fedor is afraid to fight these top guys in order to keep his # 1 spot at the HW division. Fedor would fight anyone. It's just because of his management that he couldn't reach a deal with the UFC.
Does m1 have any clients besides Fedor?

Does Fedor work for M1 or does M! work for Fedor?

lets not let be naiive here.



You guys ready to let the dogs out?
Fedor is part owner of the company along with that gimp Vadim Finkelstein, if he really wanted to fight in the UFC he could, he chooses not to and instead wants to fight for Scott Coker who's entertained the idea of bringing Dave Batista into Strikeforce.

I know M1 used to manage Gegard Mousasi as well but he left them sometime last year, obviously realised that it was in his best interest to be managed by a company that had his best interest in mind when agreeing to deals.




i really think brock would beat fedor, i think fedor has just been hyped up all these years, brock is just to powerful for anyone if he gets you to the floor its over. ime saying this and i aint a brock fan buts its the truth.



Downthesun and Dexter: you guys make some really good arguments as to M1. I too think they are a bunch of clowns who are making it seem like Fedor is scared to fight the best there is. But the truth is that Fedor doesn't care who he fights. There's a lot of factors playing along and given that Fedor owns a part of M1 and M1 wants to co-promote events, he is never going to sign with the UFC imo.

I think it's a damn shame. I think everyone does. The people who believe in Fedor (me) want to see him compete with the big UFC guys. I think he would excel against all of them. JDS would probably give him the biggest trouble, as downthesun already mentioned. The people who think he's hyped (Dexter, Lud) want to see him get beaten by the UFC guys.

But I'm really REALLY hoping that Ubereem signs with UFC in the near future. Because he would toy with those UFC guys and I'm not even kidding. He treated that tyre mecanic of a Brett Rogers like a ragdoll. He is still undefeated at HW, although he hasn't faced the best of competition. All I can say is, this guy is the truth and I think he is the only one who can stop Fedor even if Fedor competes at his best.

@ Dexter: Yes, Lesnar has the HW belt of the most popular MMA organisation. But my point is: What does that mean when you see that his stand-up is comparable to that of a 6 year old elementary boy? Carwin is an OK striker on MMA level. Imagine what JDS would do to him? And now imagine what Overeem would do to him.

If you back up in a straight line with your hands in front of your head, you're going down against Overeem. He'll just approach, throw a few punches, go into a muay thai clinch and knee you in the head.

It'll look kind of like this (Teixera is a top 10 HW in K1 who is proficient in the stand-up department compared to Brock):



You guys ready to let the dogs out?
Brett Rogers is one of the most overhyped people on this planet, he had one fight where he blasted through Arlovski and suddenly he's the next best thing at HW. I still believe Fedor is the greatest heavyweight of all time, you don't beat the likes of CroCop, Nog, Coleman etc without being amazing. Before he fought Werdum he was atop my P4P list. I genuinly believe he'd fight his way to a title shot very soon if he joined the UFC and I think a Fedor v Brock fight would be a lot closer than most people think. Unfortunatly, whilst GSP and Anderson Silva will always be remembered for having fought the best guys in their divisions (WW and Middleweight are two divisions in which the UFC pretty much has a monopoly on), the same can't be said for Fedor. Also, I think Silva and GSP will beat Shields if and when they face him. I can't wait to see Silva slap that hick Sonnen (R) silly.

As much as everyone loves him and touts him as the best MMA fighter ever, until he beats the boys in the UFC, his claim of being the best heavyweight in the world can never be substantiated. However when the UFC's top P4P boys retire they can say for legit that they beat the best fighters out there.



You guys ready to let the dogs out?
That card is shaping up really well, Bader and Dunham are two huge prospects, I think if they win their fights they could be in line for title shots or at worst one fight away from a title shot. Guillard v Stephens has potential to be FOTN and I'm looking forward to seeing Mir or Big Nog rebound from their last fights.



Keep on Rockin in the Free World
[quote=Brodinski;637890]Downthesun and Dexter: you guys make some really good arguments as to M1. I too think they are a bunch of clowns who are making it seem like Fedor is scared to fight the best there is. But the truth is that Fedor doesn't care who he fights. There's a lot of factors playing along and given that Fedor owns a part of M1 and M1 wants to co-promote events, he is never going to sign with the UFC imo.

I think it's a damn shame. I think everyone does. The people who believe in Fedor (me) want to see him compete with the big UFC guys. I think he would excel against all of them. JDS would probably give him the biggest trouble, as downthesun already mentioned. The people who think he's hyped (Dexter, Lud) want to see him get beaten by the UFC guys.

No, what i want is the best vs the best= the best fights. the horsebleep fanboi allegiance thing from the old days when ufc and PRIDE competed for talent is silly.

Fedor is scared. and he should be. this isnt 2005. Fedor has seen once dominant scary dudes such as Nog and Cro-cop get handled.

He is scared.

But I'm really REALLY hoping that Ubereem signs with UFC in the near future. Because he would toy with those UFC guys and I'm not even kidding. He treated that tyre mecanic of a Brett Rogers like a ragdoll. He is still undefeated at HW, although he hasn't faced the best of competition. All I can say is, this guy is the truth and I think he is the only one who can stop Fedor even if Fedor competes at his best.

@ Dexter: Yes, Lesnar has the HW belt of the most popular MMA organisation. But my point is: What does that mean when you see that his stand-up is comparable to that of a 6 year old elementary boy? Carwin is an OK striker on MMA level. Imagine what JDS would do to him? And now imagine what Overeem would do to him.

Have you ever seen Matt Hughes 1st 5 fights? his standup is terrible. His game evolved, as is Brocks. Thats the scary part.

If you back up in a straight line with your hands in front of your head, you're going down against Overeem. He'll just approach, throw a few punches, go into a muay thai clinch and knee you in the head.