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Ok, I love westerns, and Im no wussy when it comes to violent behavior (for example - it wasnt too eyebrow raising when Clint Eastwood - the protagonist - raped the girl in one of his westerns). But when the old guy slit that hooker's lip (or broke her fingers or something) ...I was done. Oh no, my friend. nooooooo.

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something witty goes here......

It didn't exactly turn me on either, if that's what you're inferring!

If (as I suspect) the old guy was Ian McShane then I actually don't see anything too out of the ordinary by a pimp exercising complete psychological control over one of his 'investments'. Not pleasant, but not unusual.

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"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how the Tatty 100 is done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves." - Brendan Behan

Jesus, mack. You can't say there's no hope in The WIre after watching one ort two episodes. like anything half-decent, it takes a bit to find the humanity. Not all characters have it, no, but that's life. It's Baltimore, dealing with drugs and murder and corruption.

If another ****** person comes in and says 'I watched one episode and I didn't get into it' I'm going to bawl. If you've read anythign about the show you'll know it takes a good five hours to become engrossed.

I know I shouldn't get angry about it, because I would have been confused if I started watching it without any knowledge of what it was, but it almost pains me that people are missing out on a landmark, once-in-a-lifetime programme because they dismiss it after the first hour.

You're right, you shouldn't get angry about it.

People like different things (that old old chestnut) and while I love discussing them with people who's views I don't hold, it's not a matter of convincing them that my point of view is the correct one. It's more like 'here's why I love/hate it' and thinking that someone should automatically bend to my will is, well, kinda stupid.

That's bollocks. I wasn't trying to say that The Wire is the best program in the world, I was just saying it takes more than one episode to give it a proper opinion, and it does. If you watched a good chunk of hours and didn't get on with it fair enough, but like I've said before, The Wire isn't like CSI, or Buffy, it isn't even like Deadwood [in terms of pacing and story arcs].

I know you like The Wire, so I don't know why I'm preaching to you.

Anyone who doesn't like The Wire is a bellend.

Personally, I believe the pilot episode's entire goal should be to draw viewers in. If it can't do that, if it takes five hours, that's terrible and very unrealistic to expect viewers these days to bother.

Books are supposed to draw you in from the first sentence, paragraph and chapter as well. That's what a good concept and writing is supposed to do, IMO.

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Bleacheddecay

Good point BD. There's been several shows back through the years that I've gotten into immediately. The Shield being one of them. And that's after I was bombarded with ads for the show commercial break after commercial break for days on end and I had even vowed never to watch the damn thing. Well, I'm glad I have zero fortitude because I watched the first episode (taped of course, I held out for that at least) and was totally sucked in. The way its filmed is one thing but the Story is just gripping. And its pretty much like that through the entire series. The seasons with Glenn Close and Forrest Whitaker are borderline spectacular.

I haven't caught any of The Wire as of yet but from what I've heard it sounds quite good. I'm a huge fan of Homicide: Life on the Streets, which to me is one of the best cop shows ever. So if its based in that city I wonder if some of the same people behind the scenes are involved.

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We are both the source of the problem and the solution, yet we do not see ourselves in this light...

I LOVED Homicide Life on the Streets too! It was a great show! I remember being a bit freaked out by all the new ways they did the production but I loved it!

I can't watch The Shield until I have a viewing buddy. It's just a little too bleak and hardcore for me alone. I want to watch it though! LOL.

Ah, there's nothing like reasoned debate is there?

Unfortunately that's nothing like reasoned debate...

To be honest, that 5 hour thing is a complete red herring. I wouldn't expect someone to eat their way through the menu of a restaurant if they'd had food poisoning from a starter just because I said it was good.

I was gripped from basically the first scene of The Wire. If others weren't - especially if I've seen enough of their posts here to realise that they're well-endowed in the critical faculty department - then tough. If they don't agree I like to find out why, not to change their mind but because I respect the opinions enough to care what they think. Windows into souls and all that...

i don't know how anyone who is a book and film lover can say or even agree with such a thing. honestly, how many books and movies have you started that didn't really pull you in at the beginning but you ended up loving? especially books--just about every other book i read is like that, and if i gave up every time because i wasn't totally fascinated by the first chapter i think i'd never finish most anything.

happycyclist saying The Wire is like a novel kind of reminds me of that. he was saying that character development can't obviously be covered in one episode, and that's true. it always bugs the crap out of me when people give up on movies or something because they don't have the attention span to bother with it.

i know that wasn't was mack was saying, though. but that's what i got from your post.

i mean, i could care less if anyone else likes any movies or books i don't, but i think what he's saying makes sense. half my problem used to be that i'd never finish a movie or book because i got bored with it, and over the last few years i've made more of an effort to try to be less ADD, and i'm glad i did.


and Taticus, comparing mack's experience to food-poisoning is a bit weird. a food analagy on films just doesn't work.

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letterboxd

You can't batter someone into liking something if they just don't and, to be honest, I think my analogy fits.

I think there's enough in The Wire's first episode to give you a pretty good idea as to whether you're gonna dig it or not. Yes, it's probably best experienced as one continuous story but the point I'm starting to bore myself with now still stands.

fin

mmmmm. I was against H:LOTS from the beginning at first, but my older sis, who is a serious cop show lover got me into it. She liked it because she felt it was more honest, and akin to the spirit of the Brit cop shows she loves. I hated it at first - not because it had too bleak an outlook, but because I found it visually unappealing and ugly. I now feel it is one of the better american cop shows out there, but I cant bear it without a watching buddy as you say!

This worked in the reverse for us for The Shield - I was a fan of Chiklis, so even though his brash character in The Shield turned me completely off, I was sold on some very good random episodes and so decided to start from Season 1. WHAT a disaster - I admit I got about halfway thru the season - a quarter of the way, my older sis started watching it with me, and she hated it as well.

I'm sorry - Beyond the fact that Chiklis's character was a complete and utter thug with a badge - I found him unforgiveably stupid, and they seemed to play him as the smartest of the bunch! It was actually painful to watch. Dont get me wrong - I love jock boys and a good fist-fight as much as the next girl, but the raging testosterone, screaming matches, and ball out beat downs had me feeling like I was sitting ringside. And I hate boxing.

There was lots of madness, and zero method. No, my friend. nooooooooo.

bleached, if you find you like the Shield, let us know, and I might give it another try.

Very few Ash, because I feel that there are far too many movies and books to waste my time if an author or producer doesn't bother or have the talent to draw me in.

I've only kept with such things rarely. Likely due to a school assignment, inertia, or being stubborn. I've nearly always regretted going on with a book or movie, or tv show that didn't draw me in right away.

Funny thing, most of my daughters favorite books back in sixth grade were of the type that were sloooow starting. So she is much more into that. Meanwhile, I'm bored to tears.

I will!

The only episode I watched? Chiklis burned a guy's face on the stove eye. Yikes!

i agree, which is what i said in my previous post. but i do think its fair to get on someone for dismissing something without giving it a fair chance. i think we agree more than you think, and i think my point is getting pretty tiresome, too.

and i really don't think your food analogy fits. food is much more black and white than a film with growing plots and characters isn't it? the first time i tried onions i knew i hated them and ten years later that hasn't really changed. but you can change your mind about a book, or a program. isn't there even a thread dedicated to that in this placed somewhere? "Movies you've changed your mind about" or some bs like that?

no, i agree with that too, but that isn't really what i said is it? i said that most people don't usually get drawn in the first sentence in the first chapter of a new book, they just don't. i think that only applies when you're reading a series like Harry Potter or something because its a continuous story from the previous book.


maybe i'm just weird in this way then, or maybe i don't get as attached to things the way other people do, but i'm hardly ever drawn in at first with anything. so in my case, if i literally stopped reading/watching something every time i wasn't totally fascinated with it from the first minute, i'd never finish anything.

Indeed, we could go on and on and on and on and on about what constitutes a fair chance - an episode, 3 episodes, a full 12 show season or different for each and every one of us based on what we instinctively like or dislike. But that's just silly.



I hated onions when I was a kid but I like them now....but not all types of onions. I like them raw or fried but not stewed or roasted. Onions aren't black or white either - apart from burned ones - but I've never been to an onion restaurant.

Back on topic: Michael Chiklis' head looks like an onion!

Hey, as someone who said they weren't drawn into The Wire from the first episode, never said anything against the show or that it will inevitably grow on me just the fact i didn't have the patience to watch the whole series at my friends house instead of going to the pub.

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On the Michael Chiklis topic: he kind of reminds me of a penis.

That is why I shall never watch the Shield

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I used to be addicted to crystal meth, now I'm just addicted to Breaking Bad.

I can understand that you are different from me this way. I have no way of knowing how many people fall to either side of this. I do know that the goal of a book is to draw the reader in immediately because I am aspiring writer and have attended writing conferences to learn.

I have read Harry Potter but I've read a great many books as it is one of my pleasures I indulge in. I run several book clubs for various age groups as part of my job. I read in just about every genre and around nine books a month. Not all of them are series. In fact, most aren't.

Giving a movie, tv show or book a fair shot doesn't compute for me. I mean they aren't people or animals, they are projects meant to make us buy something. If they aren't compelling to some, they may be to others, if not they have failed. That's the way the business and art works.