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Anyway, my biggest takeaway from Nosferatu was, man, how embarrassed are we that it took this long to realize that what Dracula needed all along was a great big bushy mustache and the revelation that he sleeps in his coffin nudi-tudi?
A scary thing happened on the way to the Movie Forums - Horrorcrammers
Halfway through Alone in the Dark. Is this the first hockey mask killer?
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This came out in '82. The original Friday the 13th came out 2 years before.
And I guess I posted too soon, because the hockey mask only got a couple of seconds of screen time. But the wearer did technically murder someone while wearing it so I'm sticking with my original question.
Last edited by Captain Terror; 02-02-25 at 12:51 AM.
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So I enjoyed Alone in the Dark. Fun watching Pleasence, Palance and Landau hamming it up. I found myself thinking it was pretty well-written which is not something that usually happens when I'm watching a slasher. Little things like the "thing under the bed" conversation having a payoff later are, sadly, enough to impress me given my low expectations for these things. Found myself legitimately tense during the trapped-in-the-house bit. And this seems to include the only quality footage of the Sic F*cks on stage, so that's a bonus. (Chop Up Your Mother will be stuck in my head for the foreseeable future.)
How do we feel about this one? I only have two Letterboxd friends that have logged it, @Wooley (no rating) and Rock (3-1/2)
How do we feel about this one? I only have two Letterboxd friends that have logged it, @Wooley (no rating) and Rock (3-1/2)
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I don't feel too strongly about it, but since you brought it up I did err in my post when I said I couldn't think of any reason for it. I did consider, when it first happened, that maybe it was there to enhance the sense of vulnerability, since my initial thought was that she was some kind of sacrifice.
I don't really see it as necessary but no, I didn't feel it was ridiculous or exploitative either. And I think the nudity elsewhere accomplished something, particularly...
I don't really see it as necessary but no, I didn't feel it was ridiculous or exploitative either. And I think the nudity elsewhere accomplished something, particularly...
WARNING: "Nosferatu" spoilers below
...in the finale, where the story obviously benefits from heightening, as much as possible, the superficial divide between the two of them. The more feminine or beautiful or innocent she can look relative to the monster on top of her, the more potent the scene is. And to that point, as far as I can tell all the stuff they did earlier with the hairline and eyebrows was absent there, or at least played way down.
Watching the Czech tv horror movie Leptirica (1973) (She-Butterfly?), they used a horse to find the buried grave of a vampire as according to folklore (I think it had to be black).
I'd have to double-check to see if there's a variant that requires a naked woman on top. I wouldn't be surprised if there is one (and that might have been sanitized for TV).
I guess I should use this "google" thing.
First update from wiki:
Many rituals were used to identify a vampire. One method of finding a vampire's grave involved leading a virgin boy through a graveyard or church grounds on a virgin stallion—the horse would supposedly balk at the grave in question.[31] Generally a black horse was required, though in Albania it should be white.[38] Holes appearing in the earth over a grave were taken as a sign of vampirism.[39]
Honestly, I'm a little surprised it's a virgin boy and not a virgin woman. Time to google some more.
Further updates: Various conflicting stuff as to the purpose of the virgin on the horse. Sometimes I'm seeing it listed as bait as well. Haven't found anything about her being naked in any of the folklore.
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I like the reading of
WARNING: spoilers below
her malady as more depression, and her "inappropriate" sexuality as being a coping mechanism. That makes more sense in terms of how it relates to her marraige.
But I still feel as if, mechanically, the film doesn't make sense to me. It's an example of trying to let something serve as an analogy AND a real thing, and those two halves not cohering.
(And also, the obsession with her agreeing to be with him, etc, does feel more rooted in sexual dynamics than mental illness).
But I still feel as if, mechanically, the film doesn't make sense to me. It's an example of trying to let something serve as an analogy AND a real thing, and those two halves not cohering.
(And also, the obsession with her agreeing to be with him, etc, does feel more rooted in sexual dynamics than mental illness).
Re: Nosferatu. My wife and I talked about this a lot the day after we saw it (and again today: we like to talk about movies while walking the dog), and how a lot of the more straightforward themes seem not to graft onto it so well around the margins. Any time we tried to come up with a unifying theme or point, we'd come up with things that didn't seem to fit. So either it's sloppy or there's something a lot more nuanced going on (or both):
All of this is secondary to the real meta point of the film, though, which is basically the same as it always is for Eggers: the difficulty of facing real evil without trying to explain or rationalize it away.
WARNING: "Nosferatu" spoilers below
Insofar as I can come up with a single unifying theme, I'm kind of with Little Ash in the sense of sex being some kind of secondary thing, rather than just the thing itself, for a lot of the reasons already enumerated. I'll attempt to add to that a bit:
There are a few things the movie goes out of its way to show or tell us multiple times, which seems like the best place to start. And two of the things demonstrated more than once are:
That last thing ties into #2. And #2 is why I don't think sexual desire alone is sufficient, and why I'm not sure "he never satisfied her" quite works. They seem genuinely happy and attracted to each other in that moment. Now, there's obviously a point in the film where she just says he can't satisfy her, but she's seemingly possessed, and it seems like it's said specifically to wound him (and/or goad him into sexual action). Because if that's what the movie is saying, that she married for love or social expectation or to be a "good girl" or whatever, and was left unsatisfied by it, it's really confusing and dissonant to go out of your way at least twice to say she was cured of her "hysteria" when he was around.
The more I think about it the more it feels like it's about sexual trauma. Obviously the age and the time gap play into that, but it also seems to "fix" some of this dissonance more than the other explanations I can come up with.
There are a few things the movie goes out of its way to show or tell us multiple times, which seems like the best place to start. And two of the things demonstrated more than once are:
- How much Friedrich is attracted to his wife.
- How Ellen's fits and melancholy and dreams and everything subsided when Thomas was around.
That last thing ties into #2. And #2 is why I don't think sexual desire alone is sufficient, and why I'm not sure "he never satisfied her" quite works. They seem genuinely happy and attracted to each other in that moment. Now, there's obviously a point in the film where she just says he can't satisfy her, but she's seemingly possessed, and it seems like it's said specifically to wound him (and/or goad him into sexual action). Because if that's what the movie is saying, that she married for love or social expectation or to be a "good girl" or whatever, and was left unsatisfied by it, it's really confusing and dissonant to go out of your way at least twice to say she was cured of her "hysteria" when he was around.
The more I think about it the more it feels like it's about sexual trauma. Obviously the age and the time gap play into that, but it also seems to "fix" some of this dissonance more than the other explanations I can come up with.
All of this is secondary to the real meta point of the film, though, which is basically the same as it always is for Eggers: the difficulty of facing real evil without trying to explain or rationalize it away.
Spoilers, if you can call it that, for a documentary from the 1920s
WARNING: "Haxan" spoilers below
Originally Posted by Haxan
THE WITCH, Part 7
We leave aside actual devil possession
(speaking in tongues and convulsions)
The majority of witches in the old days were poor women;
those who nowadays are taken in by pious organizations and nursing homes.
One or more traits that might make an old woman noticeable
was enough to bring her to court during the witchcraft era.
Let us not believe that the devil belongs solely to the past.
The lovely old woman who plays the role of Maria the Weaver in my film
- and said: "The devil is real. I have seen him sitting at my bedside."
With the old woman's permission,
I show here a prayer book.
The witch's insanity can be explained as nervous exhaustion,
which I will attempt to illustrate here.
I ask my viewers to understand that in the following scenes I let the same actress -
portray many different patients suffering from related nervous disorders.
I have personally known a very nervous young woman who often walked in her sleep.
Like a witch forced by the devil, this woman -
both when sleeping and awake -
succumbs to a mysterious craving to strike matches.
Had this obsession anything to do with the morbid fear of fire she developed after one broke out in her home?
She stated that she felt as if she were fighting against an unknown force stronger than her own will.
Isn't there something "witchlike" about this sleepwalker who moves through the slumbering household with her matches?
Doesn't she remind us of the nun who walks through the chapel with her knife, forced by the devil?
This poor woman, also in a dreamlike state, does what she fears most.
These compulsive acts, these somnambulistic, dazed conditions are consistent with the nervous diseases we call hysteria.
And there are still more connections between the medieval witch and the modern hysterical person.
We remember, for instance, that the witch received nightly visitations from the devil.
For the present-day witch, it is not the devil, but rather a famous actor, a popular clergyman, or a well-known doctor who disturbs the calm of the night.
The hysterical person will undoubtedly say that these celebrities come to her through the wall or window.
Notice how deliberately this unconscious woman holds onto her bed. Artificial mannerisms like this are always exhibited by people afflicted by hysteria.
[...]
[Revisits some of the 'signs of being a witch']
Today this strange insensitivity is considered a symptom of hysteria.
"No, Doctor, I do not feel you touching my back at all."
"Yes, it is as I thought. Your daughter is suffering from hysteria."
"From what you told me, I must strongly recommend that we detain your duaghter for the time being in my clinic."
"It would be a pity if your daughter were to have an unpleasant exchange with the police."
Poor little hysterical witch!
In the Middle Ages you were in conflict with the church.
Now it is with the law.
[... various stuff, including a dramatization of a shoplifting scene and other things]
And the little woman, whom we call hysterical
alone and unhappy, isn't she still a riddle for us?
Nowadays we lock away the unhappy soul in a mental institution -
or if she is wealthy, in a modern clinic.
And so we will console ourselves
with the notion that the mildly temperate shower of the clinic
has replaced the barbaric methods of medieval times.
We leave aside actual devil possession
(speaking in tongues and convulsions)
The majority of witches in the old days were poor women;
those who nowadays are taken in by pious organizations and nursing homes.
One or more traits that might make an old woman noticeable
was enough to bring her to court during the witchcraft era.
Let us not believe that the devil belongs solely to the past.
The lovely old woman who plays the role of Maria the Weaver in my film
- and said: "The devil is real. I have seen him sitting at my bedside."
With the old woman's permission,
I show here a prayer book.
The witch's insanity can be explained as nervous exhaustion,
which I will attempt to illustrate here.
I ask my viewers to understand that in the following scenes I let the same actress -
portray many different patients suffering from related nervous disorders.
I have personally known a very nervous young woman who often walked in her sleep.
Like a witch forced by the devil, this woman -
both when sleeping and awake -
succumbs to a mysterious craving to strike matches.
Had this obsession anything to do with the morbid fear of fire she developed after one broke out in her home?
She stated that she felt as if she were fighting against an unknown force stronger than her own will.
Isn't there something "witchlike" about this sleepwalker who moves through the slumbering household with her matches?
Doesn't she remind us of the nun who walks through the chapel with her knife, forced by the devil?
This poor woman, also in a dreamlike state, does what she fears most.
These compulsive acts, these somnambulistic, dazed conditions are consistent with the nervous diseases we call hysteria.
And there are still more connections between the medieval witch and the modern hysterical person.
We remember, for instance, that the witch received nightly visitations from the devil.
For the present-day witch, it is not the devil, but rather a famous actor, a popular clergyman, or a well-known doctor who disturbs the calm of the night.
The hysterical person will undoubtedly say that these celebrities come to her through the wall or window.
Notice how deliberately this unconscious woman holds onto her bed. Artificial mannerisms like this are always exhibited by people afflicted by hysteria.
[...]
[Revisits some of the 'signs of being a witch']
Today this strange insensitivity is considered a symptom of hysteria.
"No, Doctor, I do not feel you touching my back at all."
"Yes, it is as I thought. Your daughter is suffering from hysteria."
"From what you told me, I must strongly recommend that we detain your duaghter for the time being in my clinic."
"It would be a pity if your daughter were to have an unpleasant exchange with the police."
Poor little hysterical witch!
In the Middle Ages you were in conflict with the church.
Now it is with the law.
[... various stuff, including a dramatization of a shoplifting scene and other things]
And the little woman, whom we call hysterical
alone and unhappy, isn't she still a riddle for us?
Nowadays we lock away the unhappy soul in a mental institution -
or if she is wealthy, in a modern clinic.
And so we will console ourselves
with the notion that the mildly temperate shower of the clinic
has replaced the barbaric methods of medieval times.
Yes, I just transcribed that. I mainly remember the ending lines but thought it was earlier in the movie, so I just started transcribing stuff. By the time I got to the end, I do wonder if it would have been less effort to form my own cogent thoughts and write them out.
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And can we be really real for a moment and ask if it was ever going to be a naked young man on that horse?
But, on the other hand, if I go with your assertion that the movie is really about female sexuality then obviously it has to be a young woman.
So I enjoyed Alone in the Dark. Fun watching Pleasence, Palance and Landau hamming it up. I found myself thinking it was pretty well-written which is not something that usually happens when I'm watching a slasher. Little things like the "thing under the bed" conversation having a payoff later are, sadly, enough to impress me given my low expectations for these things. Found myself legitimately tense during the trapped-in-the-house bit. And this seems to include the only quality footage of the Sic F*cks on stage, so that's a bonus. (Chop Up Your Mother will be stuck in my head for the foreseeable future.)
How do we feel about this one? I only have two Letterboxd friends that have logged it, @Wooley (no rating) and Rock (3-1/2)
How do we feel about this one? I only have two Letterboxd friends that have logged it, @Wooley (no rating) and Rock (3-1/2)
How do we feel about this one? I only have two Letterboxd friends that have logged it, @Wooley (no rating) and Rock (3-1/2)
Here's my review:
Alone in the Dark, 1982
Dr. Dan Potter (Dwight Schultz) has taken a newly vacant position at a mental health clinic. Several of the more dangerous patients, led by a man named Hawkes (Jack Palance), come to believe that Potter has killed the doctor he replaced. When a power outage disables the clinic's security system, a crew of patients escapes and heads for Potter's house for revenge.
I enjoyed this movie so much! I think that we all have horror subgenres that we can watch endlessly and even in their less refined forms, and for me that's home invasion. (I find them very scary but also very cathartic). But this one did some different things and I really found it thrilling to watch.
One strength of the film is the cast of characters. Schultz is very good as Potter, just overall a nice guy who cares about his patients and his family. Deborah Hedwall plays his wife, Nell, and Lee Taylor-Allan plays his younger sister, Lori, who is herself recovering from a mental health crisis. I was, to put it mildly, VERY CHARMED by Elizabeth Ward who plays Dan's daughter, Lyla. Unlike about 99% of kids in horror movies (or just . . . movies), Lyla actually has a personality and it isn't "kids say the darndest things". At one point one of the escaped prisoners, a child molester, poses as a babysitter and tries to get her to come upstairs with him. She slaps his hand away and says, "Don't call me 'cutie'!" and goes and gets something to drink out of the fridge. There's this great little moment late in the film when the family is under siege where she just waves a little at her dad. Her character generates so many human moments with the family and it's an important glue for that dynamic. Phillip Clark is also a warm presence as a man called Tom who Lori and Nell meet when they are arrested at a protest and who then accompanies them back to their home.
On the villain front. Palance makes for a formidable lead villain. He's supported well by Martin Landau as a religious fanatic called Preacher and Erland van Lidth as the aforementioned child molester. Despite being constantly referred to as an exploitation film, I thought that the movie's relationship to people with mental illness was very interesting. Yes, the main villains are pretty stereotypical. But we get numerous scenes with other patients who are mentally ill but are clearly not dangerous. We also have Lori, who was suffering from some serious delusions and issues. Further, in the end when
WARNING: spoilers below
Hawkes is confronted with evidence that he was wrong about Potter, he reacts first with anger but then leaves the family alone without harming them.
I also really liked the staging of the different scenes. For me it kind of walked a line between movie-reality and reality-reality in terms of how the character react to what is happening around them. There were also a few fantasy sequences, including the opening sequence, that did some fun stuff with angles and colors. It also has a strange and memorable final scene.
A really pleasant surprise!
Ya know, I hear ya, and maybe not, but I keep thinking about it since I said it and I actually think that would have been even more effective. Because we see so much more female nudity in film I think that for the effect of shock and vulnerability and superstition and all that they were going for I young male out there naked before the procession, wiener danglin' just waitin' for the vampire (ostensibly the point of that person in the scene is that if the vampire rises before they can kill it it will go for them while the others can attack).
But, on the other hand, if I go with your assertion that the movie is really about female sexuality then obviously it has to be a young woman.
But, on the other hand, if I go with your assertion that the movie is really about female sexuality then obviously it has to be a young woman.
Here's a thought:
What if
WARNING: spoilers below
it's Thomas who ends up on the horse? He awakens, dazed, to find himself being led through the woods on the horse. (Nude or not, not important). The villagers find the vampire and stake it as Thomas watches in horror. He awakens in his bed at the inn, a sign (like the muddy boots) that it wasn't just a dream.
This sets up the idea that Thomas is already intertwined with otherworldly forces, and that people are willing to use him as bait. It also nods at the idea that he is a virgin. While this isn't explicitly stated in the film, I think that the shot of Thomas and Ellen sleeping in separate beds at the very beginning leans this way.
This sets up the idea that Thomas is already intertwined with otherworldly forces, and that people are willing to use him as bait. It also nods at the idea that he is a virgin. While this isn't explicitly stated in the film, I think that the shot of Thomas and Ellen sleeping in separate beds at the very beginning leans this way.
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So I did not take the young woman as a sacrifice. They followed her to a vampire that they then killed.
Here's a thought:
What if
Here's a thought:
What if
WARNING: spoilers below
it's Thomas who ends up on the horse? He awakens, dazed, to find himself being led through the woods on the horse. (Nude or not, not important). The villagers find the vampire and stake it as Thomas watches in horror. He awakens in his bed at the inn, a sign (like the muddy boots) that it wasn't just a dream.
This sets up the idea that Thomas is already intertwined with otherworldly forces, and that people are willing to use him as bait. It also nods at the idea that he is a virgin. While this isn't explicitly stated in the film, I think that the shot of Thomas and Ellen sleeping in separate beds at the very beginning leans this way.
This sets up the idea that Thomas is already intertwined with otherworldly forces, and that people are willing to use him as bait. It also nods at the idea that he is a virgin. While this isn't explicitly stated in the film, I think that the shot of Thomas and Ellen sleeping in separate beds at the very beginning leans this way.
No, not sacrifice, I didn't think that either, I thought she was bait.
I don't know. The sequence didn't do for me what I could tell it was trying to do for me. The young woman on the horse looked somehow too modern for me and the nudity just felt old-hat and expected. And it was around that time in the film that I started wishing the whole thing was in black-and white. (Though I did appreciate at times the way that the film saturated/desaturated based on what was happening).
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I've always considered this to be a very legit one and kinda unique. A whole group of psychopaths on the loose? And you actually spend more time with them than you do with the victims? Very interesting.
I've been trying to watch at least one slasher a month for a couple of years now and it's rare that I find one that gets an unqualified thumbs up. Liked this one a lot.
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I really liked it.
Here's my review:
Here's my review:
The wave across the room also stood out to me. A lot of little moments like that gave the impression that some thought went into this thing. Again, there's the aunt's story about being scared of something under the bed which gets a callback later. I thought the setup/payoff of "The Bleeder" was pretty great too.
The director's next film was ANoES2, so now I'm thinking I should check that out. To date I've only seen the two Craven installments.
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I've been trying to watch at least one slasher a month for a couple of years now and it's rare that I find one that gets an unqualified thumbs up. Liked this one a lot.
The director's next film was ANoES2, so now I'm thinking I should check that out. To date I've only seen the two Craven installments.
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Not a slasher so much as a thriller, but have you seen When a Stranger Calls Back?
After watching the documentary Scream, Queen!, that director went from being someone I barely knew existed to someone I think is actively kind of a tool (outshone only by the total trashbag that is the writer of the film).
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I mean, they are both trash bags, but more in a jerky way. I think you can still enjoy NoES 2 without having mixed feelings. I can't remember the film well enough to say if I thought it was particularly suspenseful or well-directed. I want to say there was a good and spooky sequence in a locker room? Maybe someone in here has a better memory or has seen it more recently.
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I mean, they are both trash bags, but more in a jerky way. I think you can still enjoy NoES 2 without having mixed feelings. I can't remember the film well enough to say if I thought it was particularly suspenseful or well-directed. I want to say there was a good and spooky sequence in a locker room? Maybe someone in here has a better memory or has seen it more recently.
I also watched this director's The Hidden this weekend and was impressed with what he managed to get out of an absurd premise. I'm not prepared to bestow 5 stars on it like our friend Rock, but I can recommend it as a pleasant surprise. So I'm still interested in his Elm St installment.
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I mean, they are both trash bags, but more in a jerky way. I think you can still enjoy NoES 2 without having mixed feelings. I can't remember the film well enough to say if I thought it was particularly suspenseful or well-directed. I want to say there was a good and spooky sequence in a locker room? Maybe someone in here has a better memory or has seen it more recently.
Just my 2 cents.
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I didn't think she was a sacrifice or bait. It was a ritual to find a vampire. (Because they are shown finding it in the grave as opposed to it coming to them). But I can see how it might read as bait/sacrifice.
I don't know. The sequence didn't do for me what I could tell it was trying to do for me. The young woman on the horse looked somehow too modern for me and the nudity just felt old-hat and expected. And it was around that time in the film that I started wishing the whole thing was in black-and white. (Though I did appreciate at times the way that the film saturated/desaturated based on what was happening).
I don't know. The sequence didn't do for me what I could tell it was trying to do for me. The young woman on the horse looked somehow too modern for me and the nudity just felt old-hat and expected. And it was around that time in the film that I started wishing the whole thing was in black-and white. (Though I did appreciate at times the way that the film saturated/desaturated based on what was happening).
I guess I had a lower expectation for this movie than a lot of people, I was more in the "Can he really even pull this off?" camp so, for me, all the success of the film, the things it does so well and the fact that it does work, probably overwhelmed shortcomings.
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