Star Wars: Episode VIII – The Last Jedi

I can’t wait to rewatch this on my own.

I feel like whatever side of the lover/hater fence you're on, even Siskel and Ebert would be standing here like "Woah, chill tf out, Internet, even we don't get this uptight about movies!!"

Ultimately, I think I liked individual parts of it though those don’t balance out the parts I didn’t like. It just never came alive like The Force Awakens did, which had plenty of flaws but power through them with certain something. A certain something that’s missing here.

The ending is really quite good, however.

Just for the record, I like Luke's changes. I know I'll never change anyone's mind, I only want to explain my position:

30 years will change a person, otherwise they're static and they'll become stale. I would never defend the prequels, but Obi-Wan's changes between 3 and 4 were necessary for development, same with Luke. I totally buy a reckless young man becoming a cynical old man when he feels he messed something up and did more harm than good. Makes perfect sense to me.

Yeah, I thought the decision was sound. I can even see how Johnson might have felt moments in OT would inform such changes (Luke didn’t yub nub, after all).

I would also add that she only let's him in on it when she realises that this is a guy who people will follow


Also, the bombers shouldn't be such an issue for fans, if gravity is an issue then so should any space battle sound effects
Speed? They're carrying bombs, bombs! Of course they're slow lol

I enjoyed it. I understand why many fans are not super pumped with it, but I like the risks the movie took and I can respect the changes they made to certain characters.

I did have a couple of issues with the movie, though:
1. The Finn storyline was completely unnecessary. I just wanted to get to the other stuff whenever they were on the screen.
2. Some of the comedy was entirely out of place. Most of it was okay, but I was taken completely out of the movie a few times.

I look forward to seeing it again.

Um,oops...maybe audience scores are just as bogus as I thought?

my thoughts aswell, could be the editing, could be higher expectations than normal , i think the delivery of the plot to us was a bit slow and not epic enough, like th scenes were glued together and not coming as a natural flow...

Yeah, you said "interesting and powerful" last time but you haven't explained why exactly he is an interesting character in his own right. He's not a character so much as a plot device whose only true importance to the narrative is through his connection to Kylo. Referring to him as an "obvious candidate for a showdown" only makes me happier that he got treated the way he did because f*ck having to wait for that to happen.

Easier to complain about the technical shortcomings that inform the plot rather than process what they mean. Yoda already answered most of these questions satisfactorily, but if you're going to keep banging the drum about how fuel "didn't exist" in Star Wars before then I reserve the right to complain about Empire being terrible because hyperdrive never used to break down in Hope.

Again, we shall see what difference it makes in the long run, but you already had people complaining about TFA and Rogue One for doing this or not doing that so it begs the question as to how much this "entire generation" (and even then that's a very presumptuous way of referring to a group of indeterminate size) will actually affect the overall box office performance. As for the word-of-mouth, I do wonder how much of that is going to be a genuine reflection of what audiences think or how much of it is the especially angry "fans" messing with algorithms or whatever (which seems to be happening with the IMDb reviews section).

The fringe groups in question...there was some MRA group called Return to Kings that boycotted TFA and some white supremacists cited Rogue One as "anti-white". We'll see if the entire generation of spat-upon fans makes more of a dint in The Last Jedi's profits than they do.

__________________
Iro's Top 100 Movies v3.0

The online discussion for this movie is so exhausting that I think I have a better understanding of Luke’s decisions.

Yeah I'd agree with this, granted I felt the Snoke design was a lot more clichéd with the CGI nature taking away from the potential for a strong performance as well as making little sense that the Nazish first order with its "humans first" stance would have him as a leader BUT the main issue is both were focused on playing off of other characters.

The weakness of this film for me is that it underplays what is by far its strongest character/plot in Kylo. We get that one scene between them(debatably the best of the film) and then very little else. Snoke is vastly less effective with Rey for me because her character is vastly weaker than Kylo's or indeed Luke's in Return of the Jedi. Almost everything that makes those scenes effective is down to Luke's story.

Whilst I think the film made the correct decision not too focus too much on Snoke's background I do think we were owed something. In the originals the Emperors background is easier to imagine without detail due to the setting yet Snoke's appearance and rise to me demands at least some explanation, it need not be that specific and could have been linked into more Kylo scenes.

The issue with the technical side of things for me is that you potentially make a rod for your own back. The original films are actually very non specific in terms of technology which cuts out the need for explanation. The sequel films actually seem much more "Trek like" to me(which is ironic as people claimed Abrams was turning Trek into Starwars) looking to introduce more detailed tech that demands more explantion.

The last point feels a bit cheap to me looking to relate dislike to these films to extreme right wing views. Although actually even as someone very much on the liberal side I think theres a cynicism to TFA and TLJ(although not Rogue One) looking to used political debate as a shield and a publicity tool whilst actually having little or nothing new to say.

Honestly I really don't know whats going to happen long term but I do definitely sense that as with Trek around Into Darkness resentment is clearly starting to build beyond the Prequel/Lucas loyalists. Starwars is a bit different from Trek in that its appeal is wider but equally you could say its more specific fanbase is wider as well. Rogue One a film aimed mostly at that fanbase made over $500 million in the US last year. I do think Disney have a problem that there sequel films are built on very dodgy ground compared to the originals without the same thought put into setting and character.

You want me to explain in layman terms why I like a character, or find another dull. In this movie or any other? The powerful doesn't need explaining, Snoke displayed his power. It's my personal opinion that Snoke was interesting, and that Rose for example was very dull, as was Finn this movie. If you found Snoke disinteresting and his fate was acceptable, good, honestly I have no issue with that. I fundamentally disagree of course.


Yoda and yourself can offer counter arguments to some of those technical issues but it's debateable that either of you have done so "satisfactorily". Personally I think the hyperdrive breaking down then being deactivated worked brilliantly in Empire, especially Han's ingenious solution to evade the Empire. Machines breakdown, especially on a "hunk of junk" old freighter like the Millenium Falcon. Again similar to the above answer if you accept the those issues in TLJ then that's fine, I've taken the opposite position. Clearly your position wont change neither will mine. I know Yoda claims it doesn't matter but your position is very much the minority one surrounding these parts of the film.


There were complaints about TFA and Rogue One for sure but the mass position and my position also was that they are both good, TFA great even. I know you hate me banging on about mass scores but those movie's scored well and performed well. TLJ in terms of scores from the general public has been DIRE, on another level bad, dropping below all the Prequels which quite frankly is a catastrophe. Commercially it will do well for sure, $1 billion maybe $1.5 but whatever it does will be a large drop off from TFA $2billion, and this will decrease the likelihood of the prequels to come doing well.

I won't lie, I will be going to see Ep 9 with renewed hope. I will not however spend my money on any prequels about characters long gone that should be left alone. I felt before that Disney should be branching out into the future, they have a blank canvass and so far outside of Rey and Ren I don't see any characters capable of carrying their own movie, I hope this changes.

I hope you are not trying to paste me a one who has complained about the diversity in these films because I'm not one. I thought Rey and Finn were fantastic in TFA, I couldn't have cared less about their ethnicity or sex just that they were great characters and they were, Finn however sucked this film and so did Rose. I do see why people are complaining that Disney seem to be ticking all the PC boxes, something that's become a media obsession the last decade+. I personally couldn't care less what they or any other character in any film look like just that they are interesting.

__________________

Just got back from seeing it...


That was... different.


Totally different tone and pace to the other movies.
Liked it though... was a little odd when Finn and Rose went on their adventure but other than that was ok.


Force Awakens was better.

__________________

IMDB rating has been dropping to 7.9, which was expected for the opening weekend.

Give it a month or two, we will see the real user rating of this 'brilliant' movie.

__________________
You talkin' to me?

I saw the film last night...here's my review (Full review with plot line and rating can be seen on my blog):

It’s been two years since we saw the official saga’s last entry, The Force Awakens, and it is well worth the wait. With Rian Johnson at the helm, the writer-director took a smart approach at bringing a film that is high on the level scales as in this reviewer’s opinion, the second best installment of the Star Wars saga (Sorry, but the best one still remains The Empire Strikes Back, episode five). Johnson wisely injected some beats of humor while keeping the saga alive with more action, drama, and most importantly revelations ready to set up Star Wars Episode IX.


There are two important plot points to look at when seeing this film. The first is the continuation of the battle between the Resistance and the First Order. In what is her final performance, Carrie Fisher could not have done a better job as General Leia Organa. While for a good portion of the film her character is incapacitated and replaced by Laura Dern’s Amilyn Holdo, Fisher truly makes the most of her screen time and a resounding round of applause is much needed for Fisher as well as that of Mark Hamill as the returning Luke Skywalker.
In the second important plot point, Skywalker has gone from hero to a conflicted soul looking for peace. However, with the support of some old friends, finds a sense of redemption when he teaches Rey, played by an excellent Daisy Ridley, the ways of the Jedi after he has failed teaching Kylo Ren, played this time by Adam Driver not so much as a spoiled brat but someone who now realizes what he is made of and how to unleash his potential.


Oscar Isaac and John Boyega continue their bromance as ace pilot Poe Dameron and reformed Stormtrooper Finn as they can be seen in a Han Solo-Lando Calrissian type of relationship without the sense of betrayal. Poe has become somewhat of a danger to himself at times soon learning a lesson in the process while Boyega wants to remain loyal to the Resistance. Kelly Marie Tran makes a welcome addition to the team as Rose Tico, with Veronica Ngo making a cameo in the film’s opening battle as her sister. Joonas Suotamo takes over for Peter Mayhem (who serves as consultant) as Chewbacca, who now finds sort of new buddies in the little bird like Porgs of Ahch-To, which brings some of the aforementioned comic relief along with some wisecracks that all begin with Poe Dameron mocking the stern-faced General Hux, played again by Domhnall Gleeson. There are a few surprises here and there that help drive the film and while some may not like the comic relief or even something along the lines of The Empire Strikes Back, the film ultimately does a good job of both closing and opening the gaps for the next installment.

__________________
It's All About the Movies
http://www.worldfilmgeek.com

Yeah, literally everything like this is a plot device. Shield generators were a plot device, too.

And you never heard of death stars or shield generators, until you did. And while you may bristle at the suggestion that you don't like things just because they're new, that's quite literally the argument you're making now. You're arguing that something is bad simply because it was introduced as a new concept.

Huh? This sounds totally backwards. The fact that it's "used" and dirty and grimy is exactly why things like running out of fuel fit. The warp core stuff is for Star Trek, where everything is shiny and clean and there's no scarcity. Thinks breaking down and running out of fuel is totally in keeping with this universe.

I think if we're being honest, this is what's behind 95% of these complaints. I don't think the issue is a plot that doesn't make sense, it just didn't "feel" like a Star Wars film to you, which is hard to quantify and even harder to argue about. I pointed this out from the get go:

Is it that there is no defense, or just that the defense boils down to "I care about different things than you do"? Seems like it's the latter.

If you think the latest films exist primarily to reinforce whatever arc existed for the older characters, and someone else thinks there's no reason for them to exist if they do that (and if they don't forge out and try something new), then you're obviously going to be talking at cross-purposes unless you discuss that difference, specifically, rather than all the complaints that come downstream of it.

Basic physics have to come into play at some point, dude. Bombers are slower (in fiction and in real life) because there's an inevitable trade off between speed/size and the impact of the explosives. Saying it'd be better if they were fast is technically true, but meaningless. All these ships would be better if they were faster, but the assumption is that the "fast" ships are already on the upper bounds of attainable speed, so anything built to do more than just fly around must be below those bounds somehow.

The X-wings protected them. They made a point of saying this. Also, the ships themselves can be "picked off easily," but the free-floating self-directed bombs you're apparently suggesting couldn't?

Why? On what do you base the belief that military commands routinely share high-level strategy based on deception with subordinates who have a history of disobeying them? Because that sounds nuts.

Oh, I thought some of it was clumsy, sure. It just wasn't pointless, or stupid, or whatever other over-the-top criticism is being leveled in a given post, as if each discussion were some kind of negotiation where you have to stake out the most extreme position at first, and then we argue down to something more reasonable and nuanced.

I hated Dern's character at first, but thought she was okay when I saw what they did with her. There are legitimate criticisms there, but it served some useful storytelling purpose. "Could have been done better" would be a reasonable way to put it, I think.

It's not at all relevant to a substantive critique of the film, no. And it hasn't been established that this one particular score is emblematic of "Star Wars fans," either.

More importantly, there's pretty good reason to doubt that those ratings are accurate. They're not scientific, and at least one person has already claimed "credit" for rigging them. On the other hand, The Last Jedi has received high marks from things like CinemaScore, which is impossible to fake or rig because it interviews people literally coming out of the theater. So something's clearly up.

Yeah, that's fine. I just have no interest in arguing with someone who's outraged about Star Wars going in a new direction. So my only complaint, really, is when the outrage sorta pretends to be a real argument that's open to responses, so I actually bother to sit down and try to address things only to find out that it doesn't matter.

Interesting, looking at RT scores:

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/star_wars_saga

Critics and audiences agree for the most part. In fact, audiences liked the original star wars movies slighly more than critics and disliked the last 6 ones slightly less. This one is an anomaly: 93% critical note and 56% audience, very weird. Contrast ESB, 94% critics and 97% audience or ANH, 93% critics and 96% audience.

It almost looks like critics were being paid to review it or it looks like the divergence you expect to see in an art movie that normal people dislike and critics like (such as a Kiarostami movie).

Precisely. Because in the original movies they never talk or act as if starships need "fuel". Hence, they are being heretical now by changing the technology of the franchise that was established in many movies before.

But how it never happened before? In all previous movies all technological elements were consistent from the first one. The problem is that it is not consistent with all previous 8 movies that never talked about fuel tanks, running out of fuel or needing to refuel.

They would need to add in the expanded universe stuff that in the decades after ROTJ starship technology evolved into engines that require fuel.

What is DCEU and EU?

Do fandoms actually go that insane? It;s a bloody movie for goodness sake.

normal people like kiarostami

__________________