Se7en

At least I think so too.
I bought their characters. They are both known character types, and the way they interact is an established relationship type too, but I thought they made it work. The ending took me by surprise. I mean, when there was a box, I knew what was in there. But before the whole situation came up, I wouldn't have guessed it.
Thanks, man. Rereading it, I realize it's more of a very excited and supporting trailer of sorts, not so much a review. But thanks.

I was lucky enough to walk into the theater not knowing anything about it except what was on the poster outside. I was absolutely blown away. One of the greatest thrillers of all time.

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#31 on SC's Top 100 Mofos list!!

@Thief

Commenting here because I don't want to hi-jack the list thread with too much chat about a particular film.

Just finished up the Se7en episode of your podcast. Just quickly, the sound was actually better on this one, without a huge difference between your commentary and the film scenes. That could be due to the nature of the scenes, but who knows. Let me know if you have any luck with the normalizing next time to put one of these together. Also, I really enjoy in-depth dissections of various scenes and films, so...more like this, please!

Now, on to the film. I am a huge Fincher fan, and I like pretty much everything he has done, even Alien 3. If I had to pick what I think is his best film, I think Se7en would come out on top quite easily, even if Fight Club is my personal favorite of the bunch.

I recall seeing Se7en in the theater when it first hit, and being completely blown away by the experience. Like you, this was right around the time when I started paying more attention to cinema that I previously hadn't bothered with, such as production design, mise-en-scene, and direction. I stumbled around in the dark for several years, perhaps reading a book here and there on film noir or the like, before finally randomly landing on this here site in the early 00s, where I discovered a legion of film addicts that would open my eyes to cinema in ways I hadn't previously imagined. But yes, Se7en, and the DVD release of Blade Runner were big catalysts in inspiring me to explore more about cinema.

Specifically, I recall the shot where Mills gets laid out in the alley, with Doe standing over him in an extreme low shot, and really being away of what the direction and blocking was accomplishing and how it was making me feel. Several other scenes stood out to me as well, such as the grotesque crime scene at the beginning of the film and the entire sloth sequence, which still gives me chills just thinking about it.

As I talk about Se7en, I realize it might be time to watch it again, even though I have seen it dozens of times.

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Oh man, trust me. I could go on and on about Se7en (like I said on the podcast, it's my #2 favorite film)

I remember that back in the day (late 90s) one of my brothers, knowing I was a fan of the film, gave me a book that discussed a lot of the production details as well as interpretations of the plot and whatnot... wish I could remember who wrote it, cause I don't even know where I put it. I remember reading it and immersing myself in all the micro and macro of the film; like I said, I wish I could read it again with a more mature/adult mind. But anyway, I think many people dismiss it as just a "serial killer thriller" and not much else, but I think there's a lot in it in terms of how well it is crafted and what it wants to say.

Also, I had a similar experience to you in terms of diving deeper into film. It was around those years, the 90s, when I started getting more seriously into film and I stumbled upon the Entertainment Weekly message boards, which were quite bustling at the time. Like you said, that exchange with people there really opened my eyes to cinema as well. When EW closed the boards, a bunch of us went into AboutFilm.com which was a smaller community, but I kinda liked that. We were all pretty close, but the guy that ran it couldn't really afford it anymore. Then I think I got into RT, then Corrie, and now here. I spent years in each of those and every community has brought something to my "cinephile" experience; I look forward to the same here.

As for the podcast, I have plans on doing one of those "specific scenes" episodes every other month (check out the one on The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, which came out in October). I really enjoy recording those and already have something in store for this month, and some ideas for February and April. I also have plans to shake up the podcast format now in 2021 to something maybe more focused and accessible, instead of just me rambling about random films, so stay tuned for that come January.

Thanks!

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Se7en is definitely a film worth going on about, that's for sure. I am interested in the book you mentioned, so I am going to try to track it, or one like it, down. I read Future Noir, which is a similar book on Blade Runner, which is my favorite flick of all time, and I got a ton out of it. I will post whatever book I end up getting about Se7en in this thread. You know, after I watch Se7en again.

I'm pretty sure it was this one.

I was just looking at that amazon page. I figured that might be it...

Saw this movie for the first time last year...here's a link to my review:

https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2032370-se7en.html

Well, since you mentioned the scene where John Doe turns himself in, I'm gonna keep on pimping my podcast (on my signature) cause I did an episode dedicated only to that scene (That's why Sedai and I were talking about it). Feel free to check it out and let me know your thoughts.

I remember trying to find this movie earlier this year. Is it easily watchable on a particular streaming service currently?

I think it's on Peacock, but most other places a few bucks to rent.

Yep. Peacock and Hoopla, according to JustWatch.com, but only $2.99 on Amazon. Well worth it, if you ask me.

One thing I was pondering after I watched it this, which has occurred to me previously, but I hadn't really posted about, was how we are supposed to reconcile what could be a major hole in John Doe's master plan.

Doe has been planning this for at least over a year, and probably quite a bit longer when you consider all the details he would have needed to work out, as well as the casing and scoping out of potential targets, locations, points of egress and ingress, the execution of each sin, not to mention the years of notebooks he had generated. Were the final two sins part of his original plan, or were they always planned to be sort of from the hip, as they ended up being? Mills was very new to the proceedings, having just transferred the very same day as gluttony was discovered. The wrath/envy finale couldn't have been in place then, or at least not with the components involved that Doe ended up using in the end. A couple questions:

Was Doe originally going to be Wrath, himself? In that he was the agent of wrath that performed the executions?

Did he have a different envy originally planned, only to change it up when Mill showed up? Or was envy always an amorphous/nebulous idea that he could basically use as a catch-all with whomever he ended up trapping in his Wrath scenario? For this to work, I think Doe would have had to have originally planned to be Wrath himself, as I don't think there was ever a version of all this where Doe survives. Was he willing to play either of these rolls the whole time, or did he always have envy in mind?

In regards to his own roll in the proceedings, did Doe work from the front of his plan forward, or from the end of his plan backward? In other words, did he start out as a would-be agent of wrath only to decide to work himself into the structure once he passed the point of no return, or was was this an elaborate suicide plan, with several performances of grandiose showmanship inserted as a run up in an effort to garner the attention he had never received in his life?

It almost seems like Mills and his wife were the final puzzle pieces that finally clicked everything into place, but that can't be the case, as Doe had already started this stuff rolling when Mills transferred... Maybe when you wiggle this keystone around, the entire thing collapses. Not sure I am articulating this well enough to get the idea across i am going for, but this bugged me after I watched it again.

Does Doe's master plan hold up, or is this where Se7en comes up short?