#Oscarssowhite

Tools    





The People's Republic of Clogher
Just to clarify, I didn't delete any of the guy's posts because I didn't find any of them overtly egregious. But I could sense where it was all heading.

He confirmed it in his reply to me.
__________________
"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how the Tatty 100 is done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves." - Brendan Behan



Tacitus, I see that MovieFan has been a member of MoFo for 7 years, that's a long time. Has he done similar behavior in the past? Has he ever been warned before? If he's never been warned, maybe as Foster suggested, he didn't know you were an official Moderator and thought you were just another person telling him to chill out.



The People's Republic of Clogher
maybe as Foster suggested, he didn't know you were an official Moderator and thought you were just another person telling him to chill out.
Makes no difference whether he knew I was a mod or not.

That's the last I'm saying about the matter, on with the thread!



Welcome to the human race...
That was uncalled for. No where did MovieFan555 say anything remotely resemble your accusation.
I never actually accused moviefan555 of being racist, I merely suggested it - just like with suggestions and accusations in the game Clue, I did so in the assumption that moviefan555 would argue back and prove my suggestion wrong. Here's what I wrote, bolded for emphasis:

You seem awfully invested in not seeing black people succeed.
"Seem" is the key word here. It keeps things ambiguous and gives moviefan555 a chance to realise how their arguments might sound to others, offering them a chance to defend and explain themselves. You'll note that moviefan555 actually does do something like that in their subsequent reply, even if it does have shades of the "I'm not racist because I have black friends" cliché. The conversation was actually starting to turn a bit more civil - until they went and called Tacitus a jerkoff, of course.

I don't play sides, I don't play favorites. I call it like I see it.

Iros could say truthful that MovieFan was a numpty, a troll, a loudmouth, even a jerk who was wrong with his claims...but it's wrong to say that he has an agenda to see black people not succeed, that's way too below the belt and Moviefan never remotely said anything like that. No one deserves to be called a racist out of the blue just because the other guy disagrees with him.
It's true, I could have said that...but why would I? The discussion would just devolve into meaningless name-calling and there wouldn't have been any kind of serious discussion - besides, Tacitus came in and told moviefan555 to "keep it civil" anyway so you see where that line of discussion would have gone. My post forced moviefan555 to reconsider how they were expressing their point of view and how others could (and would) interpret it.

I'm sorry but that's just a flat-out lie.
Perhaps. At the very least, it doesn't exist in anywhere near the same capacity as straightforward racism and thus feels extremely irrelevant to the discussion.
__________________
I really just want you all angry and confused the whole time.
Iro's Top 100 Movies v3.0



The Sags totally trolled the Oscars tonight with all the black actros winning hahaha. Well done.


Susan Sarandon also showed up to the ceremony in an outfit that gave me inspiration.....



__________________
I came here to do two things, drink some beer and kick some ass, looks like we are almost outta beer - Dazed and Confused

101 Favorite Movies (2019)



The Sags totally trolled the Oscars tonight with all the black actros winning hahaha. Well done.
It's amazing to me that Idris Elba got a Golden Globe nomination and won a freaking SAG Award but still didn't get an Oscar nomination.



To be fair, except for the Beasts of No Nation nomination, weren't all the SAG nominees/awards in TV categories plus an ensemble that doesn't exist in the Oscars?
__________________



It's amazing to me that Idris Elba got a Golden Globe nomination and won a freaking SAG Award but still didn't get an Oscar nomination.
He won two SAG Awards one for Luther as well. And yeah Daniel is right all the black wins were in TV except Idris Elba for Supporting Actor.



The most stupid thing about all this is that it's painfully obvious that Oscar isn't white.



And nor is the other one.

__________________
5-time MoFo Award winner.



it's just another example when the race card is played, it's not even interesting anymore
__________________
"Anything less than immortality is a complete waste of time."



Moviefan555 had nuggets of truth in his first post. Problem is he was far more interested in being a troll then an actual discussion. I mean if he had actually READ the thread he would have found people who thing the #Oscarssowhite controversy is BS, but he insisted we all were PC a-holes. And I (and many others here) are by no means PC. And since his douchebaggery will not stand man... he won't be missed either.



#OscarSoRight

Screw black people! White power! White power!

On a serious note I think all this is bullsh*t, to a certain extend. Looking at Oscars through the years, black people aren't represented nearly enough. Of course that's obviously because of more dominant racism in the earlier years.

But many black people have been nominated and won awards in the '00s and up, even the 90s... But I don't think 2015 is the right year for this to be a big thing. Idris Elba could have gotten a nomination, definitely, but apart from that I think it's all stupid. Not every race and every sexual orientated group has to be nominated just to create some diversity. The discussion has a point somewhere, but all this has been overblown and just appear dumb as hell right now...



I don't think most people take issue with the idea that racism is real and can manifest in things like this. They take issue with the assumption that a lack of diversity, in any sample size in any industry, should be treated as de facto evidence of same.

Example one: even if the nominations were random, you'd occasionally have years where all the nominees would be white. So any suggestion that this is itself dispositive is basically innumerate.

Example two: there's no reason to expect any group of people to participate in any industry at a rate that mirrors their numbers in the larger population. It's also self-contradictory, because expecting this is the same as suggesting that all races' life experiences are roughly interchangeable, which can't be true if racism is at all prevalent (let alone systemic).


It can be argued, of course, that what fields people enter in what numbers is part choice, but also partly a reflection of how welcome they feel there. But if that's what's going on, I would ask two things. First, how someone thinks they can parse one of these causes from the other. And second, why it makes sense to fix this from the top-down, by culturally policing the end result.



Welcome to the human race...
Moviefan555 had nuggets of truth in his first post. Problem is he was far more interested in being a troll then an actual discussion. I mean if he had actually READ the thread he would have found people who thing the #Oscarssowhite controversy is BS, but he insisted we all were PC a-holes. And I (and many others here) are by no means PC. And since his douchebaggery will not stand man... he won't be missed either.
They were nuggets, alright, but not of truth. It seemed especially ignorant of moviefan555 to act like Sean Penn and Jared Leto winning Oscars for Milk and Dallas Buyers Club (plus Eddie Redmayne being nominated for The Danish Girl) were supposed to indicate that the Academy was not prejudiced even though, you know, all three are cishet white males and thus their receiving recognition for playing such "brave" roles is fundamentally hollow.

Also, who takes pride in not being PC?

#OscarSoRight

Screw black people! White power! White power!
I know you're joking and all, but damn.

On a serious note I think all this is bullsh*t, to a certain extend. Looking at Oscars through the years, black people aren't represented nearly enough. Of course that's obviously because of more dominant racism in the earlier years.

But many black people have been nominated and won awards in the '00s and up, even the 90s... But I don't think 2015 is the right year for this to be a big thing. Idris Elba could have gotten a nomination, definitely, but apart from that I think it's all stupid. Not every race and every sexual orientated group has to be nominated just to create some diversity. The discussion has a point somewhere, but all this has been overblown and just appear dumb as hell right now...
It certainly seems like the right year. If anything, the fact that there's been an increase in nominations/wins since the beginning of the 21st century only makes the fact that there have now been two consecutive years without any acting nominees of colour even more egregious. Trying to reference just how many black people have won or been nominated in the past isn't enough to off-set matters, especially considering the stats I already used when moviefan555 deployed the exact same line of reasoning.

I don't think most people take issue with the idea that racism is real and can manifest in things like this. They take issue with the assumption that a lack of diversity, in any sample size in any industry, should be treated as de facto evidence of same.
It becomes an issue if it looks like there's a pattern emerging, which is the case when there just so happens to be two consecutive lots of all-white nominees. That's why this year's criticism of the nominees has escalated into a more significant boycott - one time could be an anomaly, but twice in a row is a little harder to accept. Things aren't helped by the Academy trying to shrug this off through their host's jokes (such as NPH's "best and whitest" crack at last year's ceremony).

Example one: even if the nominations were random, you'd occasionally have years where all the nominees would be white. So any suggestion that this is itself dispositive is basically innumerate.
I'm not sure how such a field could be randomised anyway, let alone what effect it would have on the probability of all the nominees being white. Without a definite amount of nominees from which to create a representative sample size, there's no telling how often you'd end up with an all-white array of nominees. For all we know, "occasionally" could end up being a gross underestimation, but without concrete data to build off, examining probabilities like this feels fundamentally pointless.

Example two: there's no reason to expect any group of people to participate in any industry at a rate that mirrors their numbers in the larger population. It's also self-contradictory, because expecting this is the same as suggesting that all races' life experiences are roughly interchangeable, which can't be true if racism is at all prevalent (let alone systemic).
Why not? What if it's the systemic racism itself that is preventing people of colour from making sufficient headway in that industry in the first place? If that's what needs to be dismantled in order for people of colour to provide even an approximate reflection of their overall numbers within the general population then people probably shouldn't be so quick to disregard or even defend allegations of misrepresentation.

It can be argued, of course, that what fields people enter in what numbers is part choice, but also partly a reflection of how welcome they feel there. But if that's what's going on, I would ask two things. First, how someone thinks they can parse one of these causes from the other. And second, why it makes sense to fix this from the top-down, by culturally policing the end result.
Yeah, correlation does not equate to causation and all that. If nothing else, the decision to start inducting new members from a wider variety of backgrounds can at least be seen as an experiment to either prove or disprove any inherent biases on the part of the Academy's current members. Besides, fixing things from the top-down is arguably the most pragmatic way to resolve such a perpetually steep uphill struggle - and who's to say the Academy isn't responsible for doing cultural policing of its own?



Im so scarred jerkoff
cishet white males
It kinda saddens me that someone got banned for saying "jerkoff" while the person who used the word "cishet" is still around.