Obama's Failures

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We don't need this thread anymore. The gov is shut down. Why don't you all quit wasting your time bitching about a government that doesn't care about you and go outside or something.
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We are both the source of the problem and the solution, yet we do not see ourselves in this light...



They can't leave us alone. They need our money.
Precisely. And that--not some belief that they care about us--is why this thread is still going.




Oh sure, agree completely. I'm just trying to figure out why so many people convinced themselves that this time would be different. This President obviously has a talent for getting people to believe things they would never have believed coming from anyone else, or directly contrary to reality and experience.
Well, without wishing to cross the streams into religion, because people want to believe. You tell them what they want/expect to hear and they're more likely to believe it's true than not. When you team that with someone they like/trust, it can be an almost unbreakable bond. Sometimes those who don't believe are surprised by who people believe in (David Icke for example. I mean, really?) but it's pretty much all the same.
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Well, with religion you're talking about ancient unanswerable questions that some of the smartest people who have ever lived have wrestled with and for which there is, by definition, no empirical answer. The basic mechanisms of insurance premiums are not quite as mystical, and the negative effect of being wrong about them is obvious and unavoidable even in the short-term.

So here's my theory: I think this is what happens when you steadily erode the value of tradition. When a generation decides its own critical faculties are to be given priority (a byproduct of increasing societal narcissism, no doubt), and that the burden of proof is not on them but on the accumulated wisdom and experience of what has come before (which is all tradition is), they force themselves to relearn simple truths that have already been collectively learned. It'd be like forcing theoretical physicists to reinvent algebra. So when someone comes along and proposes things at odds with simple principles, half the population disregards the collective experiences that clearly tell them it isn't going to work, simply because they haven't experienced it.

I think people have gotten kind of confused about what's supposed to make America great. In the past that kind of "hey, we're America!" triumphalism was about how we'd find a way to accomplish things by letting our collective ingenuity solve problems, not about how we could force a given solution to work. They've confused our ability to find solutions with our ability to make a specific solution work at any cost. As if it was the flag itself and not the things it's supposed to stand for that did it.



Keep on Rockin in the Free World
I think the long-term result of Obama's Presidency will be that Democrats will have to become more skeptical of their leaders and institutions. They got their dream scenario: a young, historical, gifted candidate with control of the House and the Senate, and it wasn't anything close to what they'd hoped.
The dream candidate wouldnt have been financed into office by goldman sachs i dont think.


but yeah the optics of the pageantry sure looked like that. Wag the Dog is a documentary these days.
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"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo.



The Obamacare Help Line.

The phone number they give you over at Healthcare.gov if you need help:

1-800-318-2596

Or
1-800-F-1-U-C-K-Y-O

http://nypost.com/2013/10/04/fkyo-obamacare-help-lines-secret-insult/

THAT IS ON PURPOSE.

THAT IS ON PURPOSE!




Originally Posted by honeykid
I'd love to think that was intentional, but I suspect it's just another example of coincidence/incompetence.
I'm not buying that it's just a coincidence. I don't even care that Snopes revealed that the number has been in existence as far back as 1999 and used by the government for Medicare. You don't give something like the Obamacare Hot Line a phone number like that. They had to have known what that number spelled out, especially if it's been in existence that long. And I don't care about the 1 in the number -- that means nothing. If anything, that is just a way to be sneaky. They obviously can't make it spell out both words exactly -- that would be 100% obvious. They have to do it this way.

That's intentional. That's disturbing and troubling.



I think whether or not "Obamacare" is working depends upon what you believe the reform was designed to do. At its heart, Obamacare was designed to expand access to millions of people who did not have it. It's too soon to tell but everything that I know about Obamacare, and I know quite a lot, tells me that it will accomplish that goal. You can quibble with exactly how many people it will end up covering, but it will be millions of people. The only reason that it won't cover more millions of people is because the Supreme Court made expansion of Medicaid optional for the states, which was the main mechanism by which the poor would have reliably gained coverage.

At it's heart, Obamacare was about redistributing resources from those who currently have care to those who do not. Whether that is a good or a bad thing depends on whether you believe that it is a moral imperative that everyone in this country obtain affordable healthcare coverage. I do, Yoda and others do not. Obamacare was also about regulating insurance companies so that more of what they do centers around providing care rather than protecting their profits. Obamcare also appears to be on the road to accomplishing that goal Do you like no exclusions of coverage for pre-existing conditions, no lifetime or annual limits on coverage, mandating that insurance companies have to spend 85% of the dollars they collect providing care, instead of lining their pockets? Do you like that health insurance companies have to cover preventive services with no copays or deductibles? Do you like that everyone who makes under 400% of the federal poverty level will get a little help with premiums that are currently more expensive than you are able to afford? If you do, than you'll love Obamacare, because it does all of these things, and none of these things existed before it was passed into law. If these are the things you are using to judge whether or not it is a success, I think you'll be happy.

If, however, you believe the goal of Obamacare was to control costs, I don't think Obamacare is going to do that as effectively as the proponents of it led people to believe. If your goal is that your healthcare is going to remain exactly the same and that you as an individual will not have to pay a dollar more than you were paying before the reform was passed, I think you're going to be disappointed. But the ironic part about this whole discussion is that the time horizon for these conversations is totally wrong.

Conservatives are going crazy that Obamacare has not controlled costs, and has in fact increased them for many, but these judgments are totally inappropriate at the present time. The true test of Obamacare will be what happens in twenty or thirty years, not what happens today or next month or next year. Those who have an agenda, on both sides of the aisle, are seeking to gloss over this incredibly important point, and it is this: Whether Obamacare works or not will depend on how much it increases access, and how much it controls costs, but that can't possibly be known now, so fair judgments cannot be made now one way or the other. This is not an attempt to dodge the disastrous implementation of the Exchange websites, or to kick the can down the road to avoid having to wrestle with these issues. It's an honest reflection about how long these utilization patterns take to change.

If millions more get coverage, and those millions because of having access to timely preventive care become less likely to develop chronic diseases, that will save the nation trillions of dollars over the next few decades. If the incentives in Obamacare lead to better coordination of care, that will reduce medical errors, and provide better healthcare for patients, in addition to saving money. If, on the other hand, Obamacare explodes costs and doesn't raise enough revenue to fund the program, the unsustainable nature of our healthcare system will get worse rather than better. If the individual mandate ends up resulting in younger, healthier people becoming insured who would have otherwise opted out, the risk pool will become diversified and costs will come down as a result. If, on the other hand, the individual mandate ends up being ineffectual due to its low cost relative to the cost of purchasing insurance, costs will increase.

Reforming our healthcare system is so much more complex, and takes a much longer period of time, than most of the people casually debating about this have any capacity to understand. These are not things that can be evaluated in the short-term. The effects of these policies can only be analyzed long-term. It's only by taking a long-term vision, and by a long-term vision I mean something on the order of thirty years, that any of us will be able to answer the following questions: Does Obamacare work, does Obamacare lower costs, and is Obamacare a good or a bad thing for our healthcare system and our broader society?



For me, the problem with Obamacare is this new rule that you HAVE to HAVE health insurance or else you'll be penalized. Otherwise, Obamacare is completely fine with me. To me, having this program is an OPTION you should have available. There shouldn't be this, "It's now mandatory that everybody buys health care" thing.

I think that's absolutely disgusting and makes me feel like the Obamas are dictators. I especially loathe that Michelle Obama, who to me is practically the face of all of this, with her and her, "We all need health care!" "Drink more water!" "Eat more fruit!" blah blah blah.

The insanity of this healthcare stuff and "better living" is disturbing to me and really makes me feel like we're totally headed for a nightmarish future where everything in our lives is going to be monitored and controlled and people will have less and less individual freedom. I don't want the government telling me how to live my life and how I should spend my money. I don't want them telling me how I should eat and take care of myself. This is not cool with me at all. I think more people, though, are willingly going to start allowing this kind of intrusion and I can't stand it. I want complete control over my life. I do not want the Obamas looking over my shoulder with everything.

And I don't trust anything with a phone number that's 1-800-F1UCKYO.



This may surprise some that know me:

I am not against universal health care. What I am against is this Pavlovian need to get it.
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“The gladdest moment in human life, methinks, is a departure into unknown lands.” – Sir Richard Burton



....we're totally headed for a nightmarish future where everything in our lives is going to be monitored and controlled and people will have less and less individual freedom.....
Government isn't nearly as good as that as your internet service provider, your credit card provider, you cell phone provider, your preference in social web chat, Facebook, etc. They collect more information on you than you can ever imagine, buy and sell it and don't have watch-dogs and committees that monitor them and elections to throw the bums out. You will give away your freedom for free or use it to purchase burritos long before the government ever deprives you of it. It's pretty much gone now, mainly owned by corporations. Meanwhile people think government is the threat...that's what stage magicians do....misdirection.



Well, as long as none of you start comparing this to Nazi Germany (like some public media nutjobs are), then you're making fair points.

It's a shame that Obamacare can't reach all citizens, like the Canadian health care system does. There are several other differences, but that's one that really sticks out to me.
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Zimmerman case, without a doubt. Dragging up racial hatred (to score political points) where it had long gone to rest. He never mentioned that three brutal black on white murders happened on the exact same day as Zimmerman defending himself from Martin.

The man is shameless, the worst president of the USA since slime ball Tricky.

Ask the blacks in the South now, how has life improved since his rant against Zimmerman? They'll tell you its set them back a hundred years.

Pathetic self serving propaganda from the commander and chief - was he even aware that the concealed weapon law was only approved by 7% of whites in Florida - the majority vote was from blacks as they were sick of their own neighborhoods constantly being held to ransom by their own black thugs. Black on black murder is through the roof, and Mr B.O chose to use this as a way of segregating and causing racial hatred over a (Hispanic who has African grand parents) - who was only defending himself.
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“If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.” BLAKE.



Yeah, I'd definitely agree there. You can think Zimmerman is guilty as sin, but it's still staggeringly inappropriate for the President to say "if I had a son he'd look like Trayvon" before the trial is even over. There is zero reason to do that except to score points with his base. Seriously, try to think of one.

It's pretty bad in a vacuum, but it's even worse when you consider how many less flattering news stories he avoids commenting on. When asked about the Gosnell trial, his press office says he "can't comment further on an ongoing legal proceeding." Funny how that standard comes and goes depending on whether or not he thinks the topic represents a political opportunity, as opposed to a political liability.



Yeah, I'd definitely agree there. You can think Zimmerman is guilty as sin, but it's still staggeringly inappropriate for the President to say "if I had a son he'd look like Trayvon" before the trial is even over. There is zero reason to do that except to score points with his base. Seriously, try to think of one.

It's pretty bad in a vacuum, but it's even worse when you consider how many less flattering news stories he avoids commenting on. When asked about the Gosnell trial, his press office says he "can't comment further on an ongoing legal proceeding." Funny how that standard comes and goes depending on whether or not he thinks the topic represents a political opportunity, as opposed to a political liability.
I far from have your intelligence or way way with words, Yoda. I kinda go from A to C in rapid response as quick as I can and hope I get my point across. Normally I'm miss - but I think I scored a home run with you there. It is terrible what this despot is doing. He is the figure head of the entire world. He needs to actually resign and get somebody in who can clean up the financial mess the States is in, or shut the hell up until next elections - when the USA will get some $100-000 tooth job selling more BS, and more corporate protection under that toothy hair weave grin. Let's face it, the GOP will get in next time, and they'll run a sure horse this time. More lies, more deceit - the corporations can't get any richer - its gone beyond that - the tooth grin and his cronies are s*it out of ideas. The goose has been plucked. Same in Europe. We all knows what that means. History is a great teacher as we never f**kin' (not allowed - being too dumbed down in schools) LEARN. Stock up on the dry goods in about 2023 when the States is a busted flush and conflict is the way forward as they always seem to think. Sigh. Maybe, they should remember the scientists all sides took from the NAZI'S and think what will happen.


But then, you need to have a zero level IQ to be a politician. We're f**ked.



Well, if you guys honestly think there's a guy who can do any better right now, you're sadly mistaken. No other candidate from either side that I've heard of has proposed anything positive, and I doubt any of them will keep their promises, either.

As for Obama resigning, that's quite the joke. I can't think of a more cowardly thing to do than a president quitting just because things got a little rough. Lincoln kept office throughout a civil war, and Obama's no quitter.