Torchwood

Ah yes, glad you mentioned the "adult" thing. It does often feel as if they'll inject swearing or sex or whatever to specifically play up the fact that it's an "adult" Dr. Who, or somesuch. It feels a tad forced.

Re: first/second/third/series. Are you using the word "series" the way I would normally use "season"? I only ask because it seems like the third "season" looks quite different and is more of a miniseries (6 episodes, or something). So I'm not sure if the first series is the first 13 episodes, or the first 26, for example.

We don't call them Seasons here in Britain, we call them Series. The third was a series, but a mini series yes.

First series = 13 episodes ending with End of Days
Second series = 13 episodes ending with Exit Wounds
Third series = 5 episodes(Children of Earth - Day 1-5) - it was shown all in one week here in Britain.
Fourth series = 10 episodes

Ah yes, thanks. I thought that was the case but there seemed to be an unusual divide between 2 and 3, so I thought it might be something else.

Anyway, I'm already pretty far into season/series two and I can't say I feel any differently yet. But I'm pretty much committed to catching up either way, so I'll keep watching and probably keep whining. I am somewhat hopeful for 3 and 4, though; I'm thinking the shorter, more focused mini-series style might work a lot better for a show like this, but we'll see.

By the by, was there some dramatic change in production budget or something between 2 and 3/4? Because the clips I've seen from more recent episodes make it look more like a movie than a TV show, or at least much more like a genuine network show than the first couple dozen episodes have.

Series 2 got a much higher budget to work with after the first series did rather well here.

^ They have proven they can do it without the strong swearing and sex in the third series, and funnily enough it's the best series.

The 'Daily Mail Brigade' has been out here in Britain...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ay-scenes.html

Even though some say no need for gay or 'straight' sex scenes in the series, I'm willing to bet nearly everyone complaining doesn't like it because it's two men in the sex scenes. If it was a man and woman, there wouldn't be such an uproar.

Personally I found it forced before they really introduced any gay characters. All the "adult" stuff reminded me of a kid who's suddenly allowed to swear and does it just because he can.

There is also, of course, a fine line between a story that simply has a gay character, and one that has a gay character to try to make some political or social point, and when it's the latter it tends to take precedence over the story.

I thought this as well. It's a bit like the US pay channel programmes of the last few years. In the first 10 minutes there'll often be a good few ****s or ***** and either some nudity or sex, just to show you that you're watching HBO/Showtime/Starz/whatever. If it's a good programme, it'll only happen in the first one or two epsiodes and then when the character/story calls for it. If it's Sparticus, it'll happen all the time.

Hi guys! I'm totally up to date with Torchwood, even up to last Friday's new episode of Miracle Day.

I "get" what Yoda's said about not fully clicking with the characters, but I only really felt that way about Owen and Tosh, and even Ianto a little bit. I've loved Gwen and Rhys from the beginning -- their relationship seems SO much like a real relationship. It's not steeped in melodrama or ridiculous misunderstandings because they conveniently don't talk things over (like most TV couples). They DO talk things through, and they DO have real problems but they are committed to each other and that keeps trumping the other issues.

That relationship's continuing the same way in Miracle Day, which I applaud.

I think any season or show that is "episodic" in nature has to be somewhat shallow or cheap because it has to wrap up big issues in about 45 minutes. The fact that seasons 3 and 4 are not episodic but follow a single plotline throughout changes the pacing and feel of those seasons drastically. The first two seasons are far more campy and almost self-awaredly cheesy, and so I didn't mind Jack's offhand comments or lighthearted jokes too much.

I also kinda like Harkness, but I have no idea why. Barrowman's acting is passable but not amazing, and he seems constantly aware that he's a Tom Cruise clone in a military surplus overcoat.

BUT, I'd like to urge those of you who aren't all caught up to stick with it. I found the first half of Miracle Day's season to be barely watchable in some respects: It wasn't TORCHWOOD, really, since it was now mostly in the U.S. with very few original characters left and I didn't like the new "recruits" at all. (Still don't.)

BUT ... somehow, the past two episodes have really gone to the effort of bringing the story back to some Torchwood roots, even making light of that overcoat and some other issues here and there. They've backed off on the overdone, forced sex scenes (gay and straight), for which I'm thankful. None of them felt like they needed to be there. It's all STORY and great backstory now and I can't wait for the last two episodes of the season now.

BTW, the "gay godfather" episode (ha ha ha, too funny) had some very great elements in it -- some of the things I HAVE appreciated about this season. For instance, I've appreciated all along the writers' ability to explore the concept of no one dying from every conceivable angle. It's been brilliant in spots, the things they've come up with. Well, that "godfather" episode felt that way -- the scenes with Jack being repeatedly killed while tied up and dangling from a rope were twisted and yet amazing in what they revealed about Jack. I suddenly began to see some possible reasons for his tendency to be flippant. And in this past episode, he's backed up that theory with a few more insights about himself.

So, it's finally feeling like a Torchwood season and not some weird hybrid of Torchwood as written by the writers of "24." I keep looking for Jack Bauer coming at me in a black SUV every episode.

__________________
Linda's Author Website
Linda's Amazon Author page

That reminds me. One running joke my wife and I have is to yell "WHAT ARE THE RULES?!" at the screen every time something seems obvious but doesn't happen. That is, if Jack can bring certain people back to life, when someone dies, and he doesn't do it, we want to know what the rules are. Why can't he this time? Needless to say, we scream this sort of thing a lot. Or with Eugene, who I mentioned earlier; what happens to him in death is completely different than the way every other single character brought back describes it. Not only is this not explained, but none of the characters who've experienced it (and saw Eugene ascend) even ask themselves what that means. That's not plausible, given how much time they spend dwelling on the issues of life and death.

Slightly related: why doesn't Jack serve as the point man for every dangerous mission? When Owen dies and comes back they shrewdly observe that he should go in alone next time, since he's already dead and has less to lose. Why doesn't Jack do the same, knowing he can't die? I know at this point only a couple of people know he's like this, but she does and more importantly, he does, so he should be the one charging headfirst into battle if he's actually trying to protect people.

Damn, We started watching Miracle Day, but that isn't the beginning of the shows, eh?

__________________

Oh Seds, NO... There are three whole seasons before Miracle Day. You really can't come in in the middle. Go to Netflix first and watch the three seasons. Seriously.

Yoda, I'm totally blanking on "Eugene"... will have to go look it up. Why don't I remember Eugene?

As for the rules: I guess I don't notice this that much with Torchwood because I'm also watching the current season of True Blood ... and THAT show has absolutely NO rules about its own characters. They just threw in some more ridiculous powers last night to two different characters ... because they needed to.

I've never felt quite that way about Torchwood. There always seems to be an underdlying rule, even if they haven't quite told you how it's that way yet.

As for Jack not rushing in... I had the sense that he does, but that he often needs more people to help him so he just doesn't rush in *alone*.

Oh, Eugene! Duh... I guess I just assumed that he was one of those characters with th weird "alien" rules about him.

Yeah, I dunno what was up with that. Every single person who's come back from the dead has described it the exact same way. Eugene dies and experiences something totally different, both in that he hangs around and in that he seems to float into the sky. And not only is this not explained, but none of the characters--who talk about and grapple with death all the time--ever mention it. Wha? Owen spends, like, two whole episodes being angsty about dying, and he never asks himself why Eugene had a different fate, or what that means? Jack, who talks and thinks about death every single episode, doesn't have any thoughts on this?

I guess I feel like this show ought to either be breezy and chaotic and disposable, or it ought to actually commit to its characters thinking deep thoughts. Right now it seems to oscillate between the two depending on the needs of a given episode. It feels more like a random anthology than a single series, like a collection of tales on a theme.

The thing is, I like some of the individual ideas very, very much. I just wish they were handled by a more serious, consistent show.

Just saw the wedding episode from season 2. I just...I don't even...it felt like an episode of Saved by the Bell, where characters do inexplicable things just because it creates a problem for the episode to solve. Their decision to go ahead with the wedding did not involve the slightest amount of thought. So naturally later in the day they realize "oh, crap, now my parents think I'm going to have a baby. What do we do?" I dunno...actually think about things before you do them?

Also, I guess they're back to caring about keeping things under wrap again, given how it ends. Are we just supposed to be assuming that they go back and clean up everything after every episode? Because there are some episodes where that would take, like, a week, or in which they have no reliable way to determine who did or did not see something.

I get what you're saying about them wanting to cover up things, but only sometimes, and sometimes only partially. But that's how the whole series started in the first episode, where Gwen is recruited. They don't really hide the fact that they arrive to solve things and clean up, and the police in charge kinda seem to let them in to places where civilians wouldn't be allowed.

It's always been clear that the authorities kinda know that Torchwood is some sort of governmental hybrid-type policing authority, that they step aside and routinely let Torchwood take over if things are weird or unusual. And although Torchwood's vehicles are unmarked and the hub area is a mostly guarded secret, nobody in Torchwood feels a need to skulk around or hide while doing their duties.

They seem more concerned with hiding their existence from civilians and the general public, which is why Gwen doesn't tell Rhys for so long ... and yet her policeman friend who crops up every so often seems to know what Torchwood is.

The wedding episode seemed a lot more silly and campy than other episodes, I agree. But for some reason the things that bother you didn't bother me. I mean, yeah, I thought, "Didn't it occur to them that they'd have to explain her burgeoning belly?" But I didn't have much trouble with Gwen's insistence that she WILL MARRY Rhys TODAY. In fact, I thought Eve Myles played that whole part/episode very convincingly. She was not going to let this whole Torchwood thing totally ruin her normal life... and remember that Jack himself has always urged her (of all the Torchwood members) to keep her normal life intact. At times he's been quite urgent about it.

And so, the wedding going forward seemed more natural because of that -- another stab at being normal while Torchwood shenanigans went on all around her/them.

The campiness and humor in that episode seemed to make it less ridiculous, not more so, for me. The episode seemed fully aware of its own outrageousness, and moved forward undaunted.

I've always found it closer to Firefly in that regard than to, say, Battlestar Galactica or something more serious in its "sci-fi-ness." It is, though, far more uneven in its tone than either of those shows.

I'm willing to forgive it, though, if only for the characters themselves. I continue to like Gwen and Rhys enough to carry me through any annoying plot holes. And even Jack and his "I'll screw anything in the universe" flippant attitude is forgivable if the context is right. I don't mind his seeming shallowness at times, if only because I wonder if someone who's been through as many deaths as he has, and who knows his own fate is to keep going through this and watch multitudes of friends and lovers age and die, wouldn't become jaded and hardened to the serious elements in life.

I'm curious what you'll think of season 3 once you start it, since it's more like "24" in that it follows a single basic storyline and isn't episodic. Watching the show back-to-back like I did (and like you are), the change was a bit jolting and I wasn't sure I liked it at first. But now that I'm also mostly done with Miracle Day (also a single storyline), I can see the value in it. It tends to even out the tone quite a bit. Perhaps some of your frustration in jumping/changing tones wouldn't have been so pronounced had you been watching it weekly instead of in concentrated doses like this...?

I've been catching up with this show, now that I'm up to date with Dr Who. Yoda handily summed up my thoughts on the early series, and my horror at the episode where G and R get married. lol

Totally agreed that the show is missing a moral center. And it's weird, because I think they started with an idea of Gwen being the moral center of the show, but have wandered to the point that at times, in Miracle Day, she seemed almost lost in the shuffle.

Torchwood (the series) started out being about a lady cop (a civil servant) getting sucked into an underground organization who deal with the supernatural, centered around a rift in Cardiff. Flashback to Dr Who, S1:Ep3 The Unquiet Dead and you have the same actress playing a serving girl with the same name, opening a rift in a basement in Cardiff and closing it to save the world. I can't help thinking we're seeing the same character, or her great granddaughter, and that there's a connection. Or maybe I'm just wishing I were seeing that. But it did seem like they started with that concept and then sort of forgot that a strongly moral character makes for compelling storytelling.

Anyway. Up to date on Torchwood: Miracle Day and am having serious doubt that they're going to make this one work. There have been a whole lot of loose ends created. Things are going on that I just can't fathom.

Such as: 1. Why does Oswald want to hang out with the Torchwood people? He said he was looking for Capt Jack, but he doesn't actually get anything from meeting him.

2. Why did we have that whole Nana Visitor kidnapping thing, when if she'd just told Jack that Angelo wanted to see him, he'd obviously have gone with her willingly? And after getting him there, she and Angelo are both just gone, and we walk away without a backward glance. What was that all for, then?

3. What was the big alien tech microchip under the bed, and where did it go? And did Rex take a piece of it and put it in his pocket? What the herk for?

4. Why is Yoda talking about someone named Eugene? There is no Eugene in the character list for this show. Have I been Retconned???

5. Are we EVER going to find out more about Capt Jack? When he told Angelo that his relentless crypticism made him "more interesting", I wanted to poke him in his bruise. Like Au, I see the basis for his cynicism in this season/series, and appreciate that. I do hope we get to find out how he got like this in this final episode, though.

But to be fair, I do love the relationship between Rhys and Gwen, and Gwen and Jack (now that they've settled where she's going to sleep) and have really liked some of the characters. I liked Owen, even though he was a sleaze, because he moved toward redemption. And I liked Tosh and Ianto and Lois. And it's been reasonably graceful how they've gone through major shifts in cast and made the show continue anyway. Pretty remarkable accomplishment, there.

__________________
Review: Cabin in the Woods 8/10

It's awful. I won't be watching this again after Miracle Day. I can't stand Gwen.

__________________

Noooooooooo, Gwen is fab.

It just makes me cringe when she tried to be badass, it might be the writing but can't take her seriously. It doesn't come naturally to her, it too forced

Agreed. She's awesome. I think the actress is brilliant, and the character is great. She's someone who'd be a sweet person if crap ever stopped happening, but she's able to get tough when it's needed. I'm hoping she's the next Doctor's companion, come to think of it.