Never Say Never Again (1983) vs. A View To A Kill (1985)

I thought I would compare the two Bond movies, since they are the last Bond movies of both Moore and Connery.

But out of the last ones of both, which is the better one? NSNA is more original and less cliched, in the sense that it actually addresses Bond's age, and it feels like an actual finale for Connery by having Bond retire at the end. Where as AVTAK feels like just another entry for it's time, using all of the familiar tropes and what not.

However, AVTAK has considerably higher production values as well. Both movies have the same amount of quality for villains and Bond girls as well, I would say. So what do you think?

Honestly I remember both being pretty terrible. Can’t seperate them.

I don't think as terrible as fans make them out to be, necessarily. They are more so-so entries for me, and could go either way. But I wouldn't put them in the top few worst ones by any means.

AVTAK is great, a wonderful send-off for Uncle Rog with great support from Walken, Jones and Patrick Macnee.
Never say Never Again is a very good cure for insomnia.

Which ones would you say are worse? I remember die another day being pretty awful. Can’t say I liked spectre. Don’t think octopussy is any good. World is not enough and quantum. Those and avtak come to mind in terms of bond missteps.

Spectre I only saw once, and didn't like much on a first viewing, but have to see it again to let it soak in more. I actually like Die Another Day, unlike most and put it around #12 in the rankings. I like Octopussy and put it around #14. I put World is Not Enough around #5, and Quantum is my least favorite.

Other least favorites that I consider worse than NSNA and AVTAK, are Live and Let Die, The Man With the Golden Gun, Thunderball, You Only Live Twice, and maybe Diamonds Are Forever, and The Living Daylights.

AVTAK ofc, is better then never say never, it just didnt feel right this NSNA , from the first scene, no bond music no nothing, let alone the editing , cartoonish...

Oh okay, I thought maybe NSNA was less cartoonish than the Moore ones at the time, cause the lower budget allowed for more grounded action scenes that didn't go over the top, as well as more grounded sets that didn't seem so high tech.

But I agree the music could have been a lot better. It got much better critic reviews at the time compared to AVTAK though.

The more natural comparison, since they were released in the same year, is Never Say Never Again and Octopussy. Moore's last five outings as Bond were a very mixed bag. The Spy Who Loved Me is arguably his best 007, and For Your Eyes Only's return to less gadgetry and world domination plotting and throwback to an older Ian Flemming style adventure film was welcome. But the other three are horrible. Moonraker takes everything The Spy Who Loved Me did right and Fs it up and seemingly tries to cash in on some of the Star Wars love, Octopussy once you get past the title is tired and silly and forgettable, and A View to a Kill besides being hampered by Tanya Roberts' acting, is plastic and dumb and a couple of the big action setpieces are totally unconvincing.

Never Say Never Again is no masterpiece, but in direct comparison to Octopussy and A View to a Kill I'll take it every single time. It was at least a better Bond send off for Connery than Diamonds are Forever. That they didn't have the rights to the iconic Bond theme and for legal reasons could only rework the basic plot of Thunderball is surely a handicap. But for me Klaus Maria Brandauer was a very effective villain who was also grounded in a bit of reality, the young Kim Basinger was good enough and lovely, Barbara Carrera is a highlight as a sexy and fun over-the-top baddie, you have bad ass Bernie Casey as Felix Leiter, and even a dash of Rowan Atkinson for comic relief. That it addresses Bond's age instead of pretending he was still thirty like those last couple Moore entries is a big plus, yes. I suspect if it had the simple changes of the established actors playing M, Q, and Moneypenny and the theme music it would be higher in the 007 canon, but as that unofficial, asterisked entry and a proper send off for Connery, I like it quite a bit, and WAY more than both Octopussy and A View to a Kill. The Duran Duran theme song for View to a Kill is fun, but the movie as a whole I can barely stand to watch.

But, you know, your mileage may vary.

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how can u even give such a review for such a silly over the top unofficial bond movie, man, its just unbelievable ur review...

I don't get why people consider NSNA to be "unoffcial" or they think that it's bad cause it's unofficial. That's like saying that The Seven Percent Solution is a bad Sherlock Holmes movie cause it's not a part of Guy Ritchie's Sherlock Holmes series. Or it's like saying that Manhunter was a bad Hannibal Lecter movie cause it was made by the De Laurentiis Entertainment Group, rather than Orion Pictures, which released The Silence of the Lambs.

Dino de laurentis is a widely known producers, he s done so many movies, and i like the movies that he produced

I think why some consider NSNA to be somewhat "unofficial" is because it's a virtual remake of Thunderball, which Connery also starred in. Plus, since MGM and Danjaq did not make the film, it's not considered an official Bond film. This link will give you as to how the movie was even made:
https://decider.com/2015/01/29/james...y-never-again/

I love AVTAK. Walken's villain was great and Tanya Roberts made for a good Bond girl IMO. And don't forget, Dolph Lundgren made his film debut in the film, right before his iconic Rocky IV role of Drago. He played a KGB agent named Venz (he got the role at the time because he was dating Grace Jones LOL)

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Well I actually think that even though it's a remake, that it improves upon Thunderball. That's not saying much since Thunderball is my 2nd least favorite Bond movie after Quantum of Solace.

Basically I found the villain and Bond girl in Thunderball, to be very weak with nothing interesting about them and on the nose and very flat dialogue. Where as NSNA, Brandauer improves a lot on the villain by a huge landslide. Basinger is a little better than the original Bond girl, but not a lot perhaps.

This doesn't mean I like NSNA, but I felt the villain was the strongest part of it, and redeemed it by a lot, compared to Thunderball.

As for Dolph Lundgren, I really don't think he added anything to the movie really. He's mostly an out of focus background character, accept for the one shot where he is in focus, but I'm surprised they even gave his character a name, instead of just calling him KGB agent #2, since the filmmakers didn't think he was good enough to play the KGB agent next to him, who had more screen time later on.

I do agree that AVTAK who two pretty good villains overall, compared to the other 80s Bond movies perhaps, but the one thing that makes it hard to decide on for me is that it has a lot of cliches in.

For example, it has a bomb on a ticking time clock, which we have seen in three Bond movies before, including the previous one, Octopussy. And it even has the villain saying the exact same line to his henchman as in Octopussy, where he says "Go get him! (pause) Go!"

And the henchman reacted like you gotta be kidding me in both movies. It's as is they were so bankrupt of originally that they actually re-used a line in the previous movie.

Where as NSNA does have more original elements in it, such as Bond actually having his age acknowledged and actually having him retire for Connery's last outing. And it is the first Bond movie to arguably, have a villain with a human side to him.

"Never Say Never Again" by just a little bit for me. Both films are great.


I'd rate the beginning titles up there with the best of them. The story can get a little slow towards the middle, although it always helps to be drinking Absolut instead of Siamese vodka.

tanya roberts was a perfect miscast in this film bro, all she can do was yell around : james help me, she a total nub

Ironically, we should be comparing NSNA to Octopussy (both of which came out the same year). But the fact that NSNA is considerably worse than OP, AVTAK vs NSNA is a more fair competition.


Both films had their flaws. But the directing in AVTAK was significantly better. AVTAK isn't a good film, but it had a great villain, some memorable action scenes (including the golden gate bridge fight).


NSNA looks like an amateur home movie. The scenery looks significantly lower budget, despite it being a big budget film. And the lighting was terrible.

NSNA's cheap look really sinks it, even if I like the cast.


AVTAK at least feels like you're watching a real Bond movie. It also has one of the best songs.

Oh...cause they're both geriatrics and bedding young women.