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Yeah Django was cheesy, though I did like it, except the scene with Tarantino
He's no actor, but he's a big ham.
He's no actor, but he's a big ham.
Last edited by Zotis; 02-08-20 at 07:04 AM.
Western Hall of Fame II
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I don’t debate often because I’m not here to really impress anyone with my reviews. I’m not so insecure that I need to defend every point. But if pressed I can. What I don’t like is debating people who come off as if they have some sort of deeper understanding of film criticism then anyone else. I usually just stop, since they have their minds usually made up. And I can only take so much of that kind of elitist thinking.
I’m pretty confident in my reasons for not liking The Great Silence. Thank you so much for suggesting I don’t. 😒
It wasn’t a good story. It didn’t have great dialogue.
It’s also hard to believe that the hero was able to survive his throat being slit.
We’re supposed to believe a young boy somehow survived having his throat slit so deep it severs his vocal cords, in a time where medical practice wasn’t that great?
Please.
And don’t get me started on the romance that was shoehorned in there.
I will admit you’re correct when pointing out the differences between Silence and Tigrero. I forgot about that. But it wasn’t that deep.
But that’s not much depth to go on. I suppose one could say it is more then TGTBTU, but a film doesn’t have to always have depth.
A movie can just be enjoyable. I enjoyed TGTBTU, but not by a lot.
I did not enjoy The Great Silence. It was nice to look at however.
I’m pretty confident in my reasons for not liking The Great Silence. Thank you so much for suggesting I don’t. 😒
It wasn’t a good story. It didn’t have great dialogue.
It’s also hard to believe that the hero was able to survive his throat being slit.
We’re supposed to believe a young boy somehow survived having his throat slit so deep it severs his vocal cords, in a time where medical practice wasn’t that great?
Please.
And don’t get me started on the romance that was shoehorned in there.
I will admit you’re correct when pointing out the differences between Silence and Tigrero. I forgot about that. But it wasn’t that deep.
But that’s not much depth to go on. I suppose one could say it is more then TGTBTU, but a film doesn’t have to always have depth.
A movie can just be enjoyable. I enjoyed TGTBTU, but not by a lot.
I did not enjoy The Great Silence. It was nice to look at however.
I would like to dissect some of them. For me it's not about arguing or one person against another. It's all about the truth. If I can help you learn something, come to realise something you once thought may not have been accurate or fair, and grow in your understanding, then I find pleasure in that. If I also grow and get sharper from the interaction, then I enjoy that too. It's about me. I am selfish, but helping other people makes me feel good too.
First I want to set the record straight. I didn't say you weren't confident in your reasons for not liking The Great Silence. I was saying (and I'm paraphrasing myself, not quoting), it doesn't seem to me that you fully understand why disliked The Great Silence. I do think that there were some obstacles to your enjoyment of the film that even you do not fully comprehend. Once you understand them, you may enjoy the movie more.
It could have been a better story, and it could have had better dialogue, but I still think it was a good story and had good dialogue. I'm not saying it was a masterpiece, but it stands out for the era and the genre.
It shouldn't be hard to believe the hero survived his throat being slit. For one thing, they weren't trying to kill him when he was a boy, they were just silencing him. Perhaps you thought this was a flaw because you thought they were trying to silence him by killing him. It wouldn't be reasonable to assume that he could have survived a lethal attempt, but it was more believable that he could survive an attempt to merely silence him. However, that being said, as I reflect on how massive his scar was, I do agree that it was a weak point in the film. Basically the extent of the cut, his surviving it, and his inability to speak as a result are not compatible. If the cut was deep enough to sever his vocal chords it would be fatal. They should have just cut out his tongue.
I really didn't think the romance was shoehorned. It was quite pivotal.
The content may not have been, "that deep," but it was deeper than The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.
You're right that movies don't have to be deep, but they do to be considered great movies.
I enjoyed Jupiter Ascending, just not for the reasons they intended.
I'm a little sad that you didn't enjoy The Great Silence. After reading everything you've said about it, I still don't know why. You pointed out some flaws, but having flaws didn't stop you from enjoying other movies.
It’s pretty simple really, why I didn’t enjoy Silence, but I did enjoy others. The whole of a film determines whether it make up for its parts. Flaws alone don’t determine my enjoyment. There’s much more to it. I found the acting better in TGTBTU then I did in Silence. I found the story better. I found the villain better. It’s a simple story of greed and revenge. It told it better then Silence. Sure, Silence has better depth, but depth alone isn’t enough.
And please don’t say I didn’t comprehend the film. That’s a little condescending. The film wasn’t that difficult to understand.
I disagree that a film can’t be great just because it doesn’t have “depth”. But that’s fine, you have your high standards and that’s fine. We’ll just agree to disagree with it.
That being said, I will go on the record as saying I don’t think TGTBTU was a great film either, at least not for me. I get that many film historians categorize it as such, but I didn’t see it that way. But I did enjoy it.
I might have liked the Shooting and even The Salvation more (wish they wouldn’t have used so much CGI though).
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First, When discussing a film, it is always subjective. It is merely opinion. Let’s avoid presuming any different that your review is the truth.
It’s pretty simple really, why I didn’t enjoy Silence, but I did enjoy others. The whole of a film determines whether it make up for its parts. Flaws alone don’t determine my enjoyment. There’s much more to it. I found the acting better in TGTBTU then I did in Silence. I found the story better. I found the villain better. It’s a simple story of greed and revenge. It told it better then Silence. Sure, Silence has better depth, but depth alone isn’t enough.
And please don’t say I didn’t comprehend the film. That’s a little condescending. The film wasn’t that difficult to understand.
I disagree that a film can’t be great just because it doesn’t have “depth”.
But that’s fine, you have your high standards and that’s fine. We’ll just agree to disagree with it.
That being said, I will go on the record as saying I don’t think TGTBTU was a great film either, at least not for me. I get that many film historians categorize it as such, but I didn’t see it that way. But I did enjoy it.
I might have liked the Shooting and even The Salvation more (wish they wouldn’t have used so much CGI though).
That being said, I will go on the record as saying I don’t think TGTBTU was a great film either, at least not for me. I get that many film historians categorize it as such, but I didn’t see it that way. But I did enjoy it.
I might have liked the Shooting and even The Salvation more (wish they wouldn’t have used so much CGI though).
Last edited by Zotis; 02-08-20 at 07:00 AM.
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First, When discussing a film, it is always subjective. It is merely opinion. Let’s avoid presuming any different that your review is the truth.
It’s pretty simple really, why I didn’t enjoy Silence, but I did enjoy others. The whole of a film determines whether it make up for its parts. Flaws alone don’t determine my enjoyment. There’s much more to it. I found the acting better in TGTBTU then I did in Silence. I found the story better. I found the villain better. It’s a simple story of greed and revenge. It told it better then Silence. Sure, Silence has better depth, but depth alone isn’t enough.
[qquotAnd please don’t say I didn’t comprehend the film. That’s a little condescending. The film wasn’t that difficult to understand.
I disagree that a film can’t be great just because it doesn’t have “depth”.
But that’s fine, you have your high standards and that’s fine. We’ll just agree to disagree with it.
That being said, I will go on the record as saying I don’t think TGTBTU was a great film either, at least not for me. I get that many film historians categorize it as such, but I didn’t see it that way. But I did enjoy it.
I might have liked the Shooting and even The Salvation more (wish they wouldn’t have used so much CGI though).
That being said, I will go on the record as saying I don’t think TGTBTU was a great film either, at least not for me. I get that many film historians categorize it as such, but I didn’t see it that way. But I did enjoy it.
I might have liked the Shooting and even The Salvation more (wish they wouldn’t have used so much CGI though).
And now we start with ad hominem remarks in regard to my “ego”. That didn’t take long. We’re done here. Please don’t bother to respond.
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And now we start with ad hominem remarks in regard to my “ego”. That didn’t take long. We’re done here. Please don’t bother to respond.
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You don't have to take insult to that comment about your ego. It wasn't an insult, nor a personal attack. It's up to you if you want to interpret it that way, but you're not interpreting it correctly. Anyway, getting upset only proves that I was right.
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You don't have to take insult to that comment about your ego. It wasn't an insult, nor a personal attack. It's up to you if you want to interpret it that way, but you're not interpreting it correctly. Anyway, getting upset only proves that I was right.
You were flat out condescending towards me when you suggested “I couldn’t comprehend a film”.
Then Suggested I had an ego when I responded you were being condescending.
You’re a hypocrite who just won’t stop. A guy who complains about being libeled who libels others . You could have just let it go, instead you resort to childish posts aimed at provoking others.
Seriously, you’re just a pretentious child, who apparently needs to have the last word.
I’ve known 10 year olds with more maturity.
Go ahead with a final post if you so need to. Play the innocent card. And then play the victim card. It’s pattern with you. So go ahead.
It’ll just prove my point.
Last edited by Wyldesyde19; 02-08-20 at 12:27 PM.
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Some brief thoughts on the noms. I listed them in alphabetical order.
Rio Bravo...rewatch.
It suits my taste, this is my type of movie. I love spending time with characters who interact and have personal drama and growth. It's a melodrama light comedy, light action western...and I like those.
The Cowboys... rewatch.
I've learned to appreciate John Wayne much more lately and this is one of his best films. I especially like the first act at his ranch. And the ending was powerful.
The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly...rewatch.
I considered this one of the great westerns, but on a rewatch I lost some interest in it. While I seen what I considered flaws, I also seen genius. I understand why many love this and I do appreciate other of Sergio Leone's films.
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance...rewatch
I've recently watched a number of John Ford westerns and while visually he's the king, his caricatures and broad comedy often lower a film's greatness in my eyes...but not here. With TMWSLV Ford finds the right balance and the right subject matter to fit his style of film making.
The Ox-Bow Incident...rewatch
Watching this for the HoF was like seeing it for the first time for me. Previously I thought of this as a morality tale, which it clearly is, but for me it's a 'moments' film. By that I mean there are moments that are apart from the story that the director includes to give more realism to the characters, to me that make the characters come alive.
The Salvation (2014)...first watch
I'd tried to watch this a couple years ago but shut it off. Violent revenge stories are not to my liking. But I thought this was run of the mill movie making with a dull story and crummy CG look. If this hadn't had two brand name stars, I would've guessed this was a direct to video movie.
The Shooting (1966)...first watch
Maybe my favorite nom, but not my favorite movie. It was a good choice as it was obscure and yet was very different. I know some think this is a deep reflective movie and maybe it is. But I took it as one of the independent, small budget films that were made by young film makers in the mid-late 1960s. To me it was shooting without a script and winging it. Now if that works for some, then maybe it's genius. But to me it was more interesting, than well done. Still cool to see though.
Rio Bravo...rewatch.
It suits my taste, this is my type of movie. I love spending time with characters who interact and have personal drama and growth. It's a melodrama light comedy, light action western...and I like those.
The Cowboys... rewatch.
I've learned to appreciate John Wayne much more lately and this is one of his best films. I especially like the first act at his ranch. And the ending was powerful.
The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly...rewatch.
I considered this one of the great westerns, but on a rewatch I lost some interest in it. While I seen what I considered flaws, I also seen genius. I understand why many love this and I do appreciate other of Sergio Leone's films.
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance...rewatch
I've recently watched a number of John Ford westerns and while visually he's the king, his caricatures and broad comedy often lower a film's greatness in my eyes...but not here. With TMWSLV Ford finds the right balance and the right subject matter to fit his style of film making.
The Ox-Bow Incident...rewatch
Watching this for the HoF was like seeing it for the first time for me. Previously I thought of this as a morality tale, which it clearly is, but for me it's a 'moments' film. By that I mean there are moments that are apart from the story that the director includes to give more realism to the characters, to me that make the characters come alive.
The Salvation (2014)...first watch
I'd tried to watch this a couple years ago but shut it off. Violent revenge stories are not to my liking. But I thought this was run of the mill movie making with a dull story and crummy CG look. If this hadn't had two brand name stars, I would've guessed this was a direct to video movie.
The Shooting (1966)...first watch
Maybe my favorite nom, but not my favorite movie. It was a good choice as it was obscure and yet was very different. I know some think this is a deep reflective movie and maybe it is. But I took it as one of the independent, small budget films that were made by young film makers in the mid-late 1960s. To me it was shooting without a script and winging it. Now if that works for some, then maybe it's genius. But to me it was more interesting, than well done. Still cool to see though.
This has been one of my favorite HoFs. Maybe it's because western movies are my favorite genre
Or maybe it's because of the diversity of films and diversity of opinions that we had. Or maybe I liked this HoF because we actually talked, debated and chewed the fat on the noms...and that's something that's been missing lately in HoFs. So big thanks to everyone!
Or maybe it's because of the diversity of films and diversity of opinions that we had. Or maybe I liked this HoF because we actually talked, debated and chewed the fat on the noms...and that's something that's been missing lately in HoFs. So big thanks to everyone!
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Some brief thoughts on the noms. I listed them in alphabetical order.
Rio Bravo...rewatch.
It suits my taste, this is my type of movie. I love spending time with characters who interact and have personal drama and growth. It's a melodrama light comedy, light action western...and I like those.
The Cowboys... rewatch.
I've learned to appreciate John Wayne much more lately and this is one of his best films. I especially like the first act at his ranch. And the ending was powerful.
The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly...rewatch.
I considered this one of the great westerns, but on a rewatch I lost some interest in it. While I seen what I considered flaws, I also seen genius. I understand why many love this and I do appreciate other of Sergio Leone's films.
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance...rewatch
I've recently watched a number of John Ford westerns and while visually he's the king, his caricatures and broad comedy often lower a film's greatness in my eyes...but not here. With TMWSLV Ford finds the right balance and the right subject matter to fit his style of film making.
The Ox-Bow Incident...rewatch
Watching this for the HoF was like seeing it for the first time for me. Previously I thought of this as a morality tale, which it clearly is, but for me it's a 'moments' film. By that I mean there are moments that are apart from the story that the director includes to give more realism to the characters, to me that make the characters come alive.
The Salvation (2014)...first watch
I'd tried to watch this a couple years ago but shut it off. Violent revenge stories are not to my liking. But I thought this was run of the mill movie making with a dull story and crummy CG look. If this hadn't had two brand name stars, I would've guessed this was a direct to video movie.
The Shooting (1966)...first watch
Maybe my favorite nom, but not my favorite movie. It was a good choice as it was obscure and yet was very different. I know some think this is a deep reflective movie and maybe it is. But I took it as one of the independent, small budget films that were made by young film makers in the mid-late 1960s. To me it was shooting without a script and winging it. Now if that works for some, then maybe it's genius. But to me it was more interesting, than well done. Still cool to see though.
Rio Bravo...rewatch.
It suits my taste, this is my type of movie. I love spending time with characters who interact and have personal drama and growth. It's a melodrama light comedy, light action western...and I like those.
The Cowboys... rewatch.
I've learned to appreciate John Wayne much more lately and this is one of his best films. I especially like the first act at his ranch. And the ending was powerful.
The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly...rewatch.
I considered this one of the great westerns, but on a rewatch I lost some interest in it. While I seen what I considered flaws, I also seen genius. I understand why many love this and I do appreciate other of Sergio Leone's films.
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance...rewatch
I've recently watched a number of John Ford westerns and while visually he's the king, his caricatures and broad comedy often lower a film's greatness in my eyes...but not here. With TMWSLV Ford finds the right balance and the right subject matter to fit his style of film making.
The Ox-Bow Incident...rewatch
Watching this for the HoF was like seeing it for the first time for me. Previously I thought of this as a morality tale, which it clearly is, but for me it's a 'moments' film. By that I mean there are moments that are apart from the story that the director includes to give more realism to the characters, to me that make the characters come alive.
The Salvation (2014)...first watch
I'd tried to watch this a couple years ago but shut it off. Violent revenge stories are not to my liking. But I thought this was run of the mill movie making with a dull story and crummy CG look. If this hadn't had two brand name stars, I would've guessed this was a direct to video movie.
The Shooting (1966)...first watch
Maybe my favorite nom, but not my favorite movie. It was a good choice as it was obscure and yet was very different. I know some think this is a deep reflective movie and maybe it is. But I took it as one of the independent, small budget films that were made by young film makers in the mid-late 1960s. To me it was shooting without a script and winging it. Now if that works for some, then maybe it's genius. But to me it was more interesting, than well done. Still cool to see though.
This has been one of my favorite HoFs. Maybe it's because western movies are my favorite genre Or maybe it's because of the diversity of films and diversity of opinions that we had. Or maybe I liked this HoF because we actually talked, debated and chewed the fat on the noms...and that's something that's been missing lately in HoFs. So big thanks to everyone!
Or maybe it's because of the diversity of films and diversity of opinions that we had. Or maybe I liked this HoF because we actually talked, debated and chewed the fat on the noms...and that's something that's been missing lately in HoFs. So big thanks to everyone! Second favorite I suppose, then?
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I would have thought Noir was your favorite.
Second favorite I suppose, then?
Second favorite I suppose, then?
Sci fi, especially 50s B sci fi is also something I love. Actually almost any movie from the 1950s is going to score high with me.
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I would have thought Noir was your favorite.
Second favorite I suppose, then?
Second favorite I suppose, then?
Sci fi, especially 50s B sci fi is also something I love. Actually almost any movie from the 1950s is going to score high with me.
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The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
Tuco: You gonna shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
Throughout my life I have wavered on how I felt about this film. I have absolutely loved it and I have found to too long with FAR TOO MANY close ups that had become a parody and was, in fact, parodied time and again. Becoming The Formula for a successful Western and that only hampers further films, not assist them in giving us an enjoying venture. So, I has actually steered clear of this film in the past decades because of that.
And now, just over two decades since my last revisit, I quite enjoyed this film, it's length, it's grittiness, Leone's directing, Morricone's score. . . all of it. Without the cynicism that past parodies caused, and with all the enjoyment of watching a Tall Tale adventure with iconic characters and outrageous scenarios.
Pure popcorn indulgence galore!
When this film initially came out, the Hays Code was on it's last legs and dying quickly. The United States film-goer was hungry for films with far more edge, far more risque situations and a more grisly outlook to many genres, including Westerns. And the Spaghetti Westerns fit the bill and gorged that hunger. With a Good Guy who wasn't really, A Bad Guy that we didn't just love to hate but really enjoyed and The Ugly character with a bombastic persona that was the dynamite to their cold, calculating fuses.
Each of them I have enjoyed more than the others throughout my life and with my last viewing, I did find Wallach's Tuco the star of this film this time around. His on again, off again, working relationship with Eastwood's Blonde making for so many great scenes and tossing Van Cleef's cold ruthlessness to the mix just took it all to another enjoyably outrageous level.
__________________
What I actually said to win MovieGal's heart:
- I might not be a real King of Kinkiness, but I make good pancakes
What I actually said to win MovieGal's heart:
- I might not be a real King of Kinkiness, but I make good pancakes
~Mr Minio
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The Great Silence aka Il Grande Silenzio
Tigrero, a.k.a. Loco: Why don't you tell me? Tell me now, or don't you wanna live?
Outlaw: [choking] I-In the mill... at, the edge of town... near - there's a wife's house... I think he's got a gun there...
Tigrero, a.k.a. Loco: Thank you.
[shoots him]
Speaking of spaghetti western grit, this film delivers! Without any comedic respite, the action in this film and the very actions of those in the story are as equally harsh and as indifferently cruel as the snow drenched Utah wilderness that encases this story.
Watching this I had opted for the original Italian audio with English subtitles so that I could enjoy the nuances of Klaus Kinski's offhanded bemusement at every turn. Luxuriously enjoying committing legal murder as one of many bounty hunters without any repercussions. His serpentine delivery of dialogue was some of the best in this film.
Equally, the snow covered mountain range is just as much a taciturn element as is the mute gunslinger Silence who attempts to put a stop to the brutality of the greedy Bounty Hunters who happily kill for their money.
Volatile means for a volatile time and this film truly expresses it
WARNING: "to the point of the ending" spoilers below
where the hero is murdered, along with the woman who loves him and the hostages (the wronged outlaws that were forced to theft to simply survive) are slaughtered. With the villain still alive and continuing his evil pursuits.
You DO NOT get anymore hardcore than that.
This is also a very beautifully filmed movie as well. The landscapes were just as glorious to behold as any desert scenario by so many other Westerns, and expressed with equal grandeur and danger as well.
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And now, the TRULY difficult task of voting. As the rest of you already experienced.
I love all sorts of Westerns and with this HoF we have touched upon, pretty much, all of them. And they've all been very worthwhile examples of each of those styles. Leaving me to ponder and argue with myself which will be first and, finally, the last. Since I've pretty much enjoyed them all for their own styles.
I'll be re-reading my reviews and sending out my vote in a bit.
This is Evil Ed, signing off.
I love all sorts of Westerns and with this HoF we have touched upon, pretty much, all of them. And they've all been very worthwhile examples of each of those styles. Leaving me to ponder and argue with myself which will be first and, finally, the last. Since I've pretty much enjoyed them all for their own styles.
I'll be re-reading my reviews and sending out my vote in a bit.
This is Evil Ed, signing off.
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Yet I see you gave the masterful “Beast of Yucca Flats” (1961). a 1/2 star, although it isn’t technically from the 50s. You just don’t appreciate true cinema I guess
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I would have thought Noir was your favorite.
Second favorite I suppose, then?
Second favorite I suppose, then?
Sci fi, especially 50s B sci fi is also something I love. Actually almost any movie from the 1950s is going to score high with me.
Say, a person who grows up during the 50’s for example, might have a preference for films from that time period.
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See, I love sci fi, but specifically 70’s and 80’s sci fi. I wonder how much of that has to do with introduction into movies at that time.
Say, a person who grows up during the 50’s for example, might have a preference for films from that time period.
Say, a person who grows up during the 50’s for example, might have a preference for films from that time period.
I like the B budget 50s sci fi just for the fun quirk appeal. But 70s and 80s sci fi, awesome.
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And now, the TRULY difficult task of voting. As the rest of you already experienced.
I love all sorts of Westerns and with this HoF we have touched upon, pretty much, all of them. And they've all been very worthwhile examples of each of those styles. Leaving me to ponder and argue with myself which will be first and, finally, the last. Since I've pretty much enjoyed them all for their own styles.
I'll be re-reading my reviews and sending out my vote in a bit.
This is Evil Ed, signing off.
I love all sorts of Westerns and with this HoF we have touched upon, pretty much, all of them. And they've all been very worthwhile examples of each of those styles. Leaving me to ponder and argue with myself which will be first and, finally, the last. Since I've pretty much enjoyed them all for their own styles.
I'll be re-reading my reviews and sending out my vote in a bit.
This is Evil Ed, signing off.
Here are the final points
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45
43
42
39
28
23
22
Any guesses?? I’ll be doing the reveal when I’m less squished for time.
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Yet I see you gave the masterful “Beast of Yucca Flats” (1961). a 1/2 star, although it isn’t technically from the 50s. You just don’t appreciate true cinema I guess
I have several possible contenders for a Worst Movie HoF, unless that would be kinda fun.
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