Coronavirus

I totally understand all of this (and, again, I sympathize with the nervousness).

But I'm saying that it means the argument isn't "You can't tell people what to put in their body!!!!", it's "I am nervous about how new the vaccine is!"

The former is a very black and white issue: can a government force people to vaccinate and/or deny services (like public school) to people who won't?

But the latter is more of a gray area. At what point has a vaccine been out long enough that it's reasonable to consider it safe?

I think that separating these two viewpoints is important. And I think that people who are in the second camp realize that their complaint is more of a slippery slope, so they often misleadingly couch their concerns as the first.

I just went grocery shopping today and of course there were some who weren't masked...and we do have a state wide mask mandate in effect. It's just a hunch but I bet the person who would violate the state mask mandates and put others at risk, are the same ones who didn't get vaccinated in the first place.

Yes, and this is the part that has been the most upsetting thing for me.

I have lots of sympathy for someone who is genuinely scared of the vaccine, but who then masks religiously, keeps a distance, makes others aware of their unvaccinated status before being indoors together, etc. But my sense is that these people are few and far between.

Again, those HVAC workers were going to walk into my house (inside with my mom who is a bone marrow transplant survivor and has other medical issues that make her vulnerable) totally unmasked and didn't disclose their status until they were specifically asked.

I think overall the odds of being hurt by vaccines are incredibly low. However, anything that's poorly understood being administered should ALWAYS come with the option to opt out, and all the cries to pressure people to do these things will backfire.


In the 70s, there was this flu vaccine that caused paralysis in a small percentage of people in the US. It personally gives me faith that harm from vaccines are unlikely, but at the same time being paralyzed would be really awful.

The same sort of situation happened this summer. We were helping this elderly lady to move out of her house. The moving men came with their big truck and a crew of four. The owner and a couple of the movers had face mask on from the get go. But there was this one guy who just started to waltz right into the house, without a mask. He was asked to please put on a mask, and he did so. This also was during state mandate mask wearing. I swear some people's lack of regard for the law and for other people's rights are downright depressing.

Agree.

to be more thorough than i was before, i think forcing people to do anything rarely has long term benefits. Look at the school system.

This kind of describes me. I believe I had the virus and thus have antibodies.

I do wear the mask where it's required just to not get hassled, and because it makes others more comfortable, but not because I truly believe it does a whole lot to protect me or protect others from me.

I have to go back to what Fauci said early on before he started flip-flopping about masks: at most, masks may stop droplets, otherwise they do little to stop viral spread.

My words = The germs are microscopic, so a mask's effectiveness is dependent on the vehicle for the germs - masks will stop solid liquids, but not aerosols propelled by force (such as produced by hard coughs & sneezes which, after tactile spread, are considered the second most common form of spread while droplets - the one thing masks stop - are a distant third since they are usually pulled to the ground by gravity before they can get in another's orifices).

Another thing Fauci said early on was that since masks did little to mitigate viral spread they had become something more for show to let others know you taking the virus seriously (some might call this "virtue signaling" or "theater").

Of course he later contradicted or added to some of these statements to maintain his course along the prevailing political winds.

I practice distancing (I've always respected other's personal space - but this is a few extra steps back) - which is probably the single most effective mitigation practice after copious hand washing.

I have little contact with people except for trips to the supermarket (where I practice all these precautions). Most of my work these days is done outdoors and alone (I'm a freelance gardener / landscaper / clean-up guy).

Yes, that’s what I thought.

Yes, tyvm.

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I’m here only on Mondays, Wednesdays & Fridays. That’s why I’m here now.

Oh, Joe Rogan strikes again!


Aaron Rodgers: "At the time, my plan was to say that I have been immunized. It wasn't some sort of ruse or lie, it was the truth."


Apparently not, Rodge! If it was the truth that you were "immunized", then you probably wouldn't have caught Covid. So let's be perfectly honest. You f***ed up. You didn't know what you were talking about, and you mistakenly thought you were immunized without any sort of actual medical assessment or diagnosis. Hell, you may not even be a doctor. Let's ask non-doctor Joe Rogan what he thinks. Oh, it looks like Joe Rogan's advice also got Joe Rogan infected? That wasn't your first clue weeks ago?


I don't even hate on Rodgers because of his traumatic brain injuries. What pisses me off is this doubling down on what is now objectively shown to be BS medical advice. Rodgers was wrong when he said he was immunized. Maybe not lying, but stupid. Just apologize for making a dumb mistake which put your collegues at risk. Why continue to push this pseudomedicine when it clearly failed you?


And a note about Big Pharma: Rodgers invoked the Big P while railing against the vaccines, but then he turned around and endorsed the use of monoclonal antibodies, which are laboratory cloned white blood cells. Made by? A publicly traded biotech corporation named Regeneron? Which costs about 2 grand per treatment? And the vaccines are free? Really sticking it to Big Pharma, pal.


Anyone else believe this horse****?

...I can't answer, one would have to know who Joe Rogan and Aaron Rodgers are. I've never heard of them.

Ha, I still don't know.

What’s worse is his interview earlier today where he admits he “may” have been misleading, but still double downs on his stance. Add to the fact he compared himself to MLK, and he obviously needs to just stop talking at this point and admit he made a mistake.

Some fact-checking:



The recent delta surge was not due to ineffective vaccines, but due to vaccine hesitancy. It was the latter unvaccinated population which accounted for the vast majority of hospitalizations, leading to reinstated mitigation necessities.


This is not true. First, the incidence of breakthrough infections for the vaccinated are far lower than covid infections in the unvaccinated. In breakthrough cases, studies have shown there to be "no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated people" infected with delta.


There's not much logic here. The fact that the vaccine is less than 100% effective, and that its effectiveness wanes over time, is hardly a comfortable excuse to not be vaccinated. It means that we need more vaccination, perhaps more often. It's the opposite of the logic that you're suggesting here.


"Natural immunity" is a canard. The antibody immunity from a covid infection also wanes over time, at approximately the same rate as immunity from the vaccines. Covid reinfections are likely within months of an initial infection, and to demonstrate, "the rate of repeat cases is double the rate of breakthrough infections". The notion that this "natural immunity" from a covid infection provides greater protection than the vaccines has been thoroughly debunked.


This division was "created" when the wearing of masks was politicized in the spring of 2020. The mandates wouldn't have been necessary if there wasn't already a deep-heeled resistence to mitigation measures to begin with.


Fauci has frequently been misquoted and misattributed so it's best to be clear about what he actually said. When his emails were released earlier this year, there was a claim that he had admitted that masks were not effective. That's not true. For the record, masks are indeed effective. What Fauci said was the same thing that people have been saying, but which anti-maskers continue to fail to understand. Masks are only minimally effective in protecting the wearer (about 50-60%, which is still better than nothing). How masks are truly effective in preventing viral spread is that they stop the wearer's individual breath-droplets from becoming airborne, which is a much more effective mitigation than protecting from already airborne breath-droplets. This is why mask-effectiveness requires cooperation. This is what Fauci explained in his email, and what was explained to those who tried to use his email as a weapon against him and fellow mask-wearers. The masks prevent the droplets from getting in the air, not visa versa. Fauci has been consistent in recommending universal mask-wearing as soon as he learned that these droplets can hang in the air for up to 3 hours at a time. It's only been controversial for those who want to make it into a controversy.

Yeah. It's our fault that his little homeopathic massage spa turned out to be bunk. Dude, you were wrong, and if you weren't, you wouldn't be sick right now.

It’s cool though. Because he’s not giving into the “woke” crowd. Like he’s owning them or something.
Whatever. What’s next? A “Let’s Go Brandon” decal on his uniform?

Another thing that masks do, assuming masks are worn properly and consistently, is prevent the wearer from touching their nose and mouth with unwashed hands. This is one of the main reasons why I continue to mask even though I've had three vaccines. I couldn't count the number of times I've absent-mindedly reached up to touch my face and been stopped by the mask. I also like that it provides a barrier between my mouth and the telephone at work, which is used by all of the staff and has no doubt been a source of transmission for the cold/flu in past years.

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I only just learned who Aaron Rodgers is because he's been in the news, but since I don't follow sports did not know of him prior.

Joe Rogan I've heard of, but he is far off my radar. I think he was a failed comedian turned radio personality / talk show host or blogger or something like that.

Thanks Captain...I don't follow sports either. I did look up Joe Rogan and he's some 'comic personality podcaster' Pffft, I could care less what his opinions are. *Note: that is not an endorsement of his views or an admonishment or whatever.