Scorsese's Silence

Which line?

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Cobpyth's Movie Log ~ 2019

Yeah that was kinda a big thing to leave out. I still think the film is amazing though.

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I don't get Christianity

That said, Silence was written by a Christian, but it shouldn't necessarily be taken as Gospel, to make a figurative phrase literal.

The need for Christ's atonement, that's what I never got. Seemed like a grim thing to base a religion off of. I'll probably always struggle with this movie because of that, despite how impressive the movie is

Of course but one of my favorite Christian filmmakers decided it was valid enough to make a 20 year passion project out of, so that's what's makes me want to understand its meaning more

Well, if this helps, it's only "Christ's atonement" in the sense that He's doing it on our behalf. Like paying another person's debt.

Apologies if this is what you meant, anyway; I can't tell from the phrasing.

Aye, it's grim. But then, people are pretty crappy, so I don't think a happy-happy joy-joy worldview philosophy would ring as true. But either way, this is a telling fact, isn't it? If you think of Christianity as something that's true, rather than a lie concocted to appeal to people, then the fact that it's grim isn't really perplexing at all. If, on the other hand, you think it's made-up, then the people making it up made some awfully counterintuitive choices.

I dig. I assume it's an expression of the things he wrestles with, much like Last Temptation. He's made religious films, to be sure, but not straightforward ones. So I guess it's possible what he's responding to was less the validity of its message, and more just the fact that it was meditating on some of the same difficult questions he does.

Oh yeah I understand that but I won't get over the why of it. The idea of violations of arbitrary rules deemed sins by a supreme being who insists they have to be atoned for with arbitrary punishments because... I don't really want to get into this discussion though haha

Or the maker-uppers found guilt to be persuading. Again don't want to dive too deep in this pool

How do you interpret the ending? Like, the very last shot. How did that make you feel

It won't surprise you to learn there's a whole mess of stuff I'd like to say in response (particularly the use of "arbitrary"), but yeah, no worries, I won't drag you into a theological debate. I wasn't sure until now how many of these things were actual questions, as opposed to implied criticisms.

Yeah I guess that's the tipping point then

"It's not who you are underneath, but what you do that defines you" - Batman

I saw this film at the theater with three very good friends of mine a couple of days ago and it was interesting how much discussion it provoked afterwards. The one friend who is considerably more sympathetic towards Christianity than the other two kind of had the same feeling of "subversiveness" as Yoda seems to have, while one of the other two, for instance, thought the film wasn't critical enough of Christianity and its missionary intentions. We discussed many aspects of the film and their importance during a great three hour long conversation. We pretty much analyzed all the important scenes and the potential meanings behind them.

I loved the film myself. I found there to be a beautiful, complex and very intense balance. As someone who hasn't read the book and who can only call himself a Christian from a cultural standpoint, I thought Scorsese's focuses felt truthful and interesting.

My eyes became watery when that final black screen appeared and when the whole theater kept silent, listening in awe to a few whispers of nature... Scorsese's cinema had triumphed once more!

Related to all this, here's an analysis of the film that makes a pretty good case that the film's message ultimately undermines Christianity. Agree or not, it's very thoughtful and well-written.

Ugh!
I want to read this thread so much!! But that movie didn't last long here so I've not been able to watch it yet.

=*(

lol?

This is well written and I agree this is mostly what I took away from the movie but

Great piece.

I think Silence's case is less obvious than the other utilitarian examples he's offering, though. There's that compulsive aspect to it. The presence of the evil authority makes it a more layered and broader case than the others.

In the film, the (whether or not imaginary) voice of Christ also doesn't expect of any human to bear the weight that he had to. He offers to let it rest on his shoulders. The author of the essay should've adressed that aspect of it as well. It was one of the most resonating moments of the film for me.

The final scene came across to me as Christianity's focus on what's truly inside. What's really in this human's heart. It's a judgement that is not really about sins. It kind of mirrors Christ's way of looking at people in the New Testament. Sins can make you evil, but they do not necessarily. There's room for human imperfection. Perfection can only be found in Christ himself.
That's why I don't buy the fact that the film ultimately undermines Christianity. If anything, it might demonstrate some of its most important components.

"Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God" Matthew 5:8

Isn't there a distinction, though, between not having to endure the same hardships as Christ and spending decades rooting out & condemning fellow Christians to death

The priests aren't the ones rooting out and condemning their fellow Christians to death. Not according to my view, at least.

That's a fair view but there's a difference between compliance and complicity. There are even several scenes towards the end where in my opinion Scorsese goes out of his way to highlight that difference