Who Will be Our Next President?

This is the least compelling of his arguments, to my mind. For one, because the salary thing is symbolic to the point of meaninglessness at his wealth level. Good PR but it's not even a drop in the bucket relative to the policies he enacts and the behavior he exhibits. It doesn't counteract even one tiny mistake, frankly, in the broad scheme of things.

There's also an either-or aspect to it: it's a trivial amount of money no matter what, but especially if you think he's telling the truth about his wealth. And if he's not, and the amount does matter, then the character you think you see from foregoing it would be more than offset by the lack of character involved in lying about said wealth.

He's doing this for himself. He likes attention. Simple as that. That's why he kept holding rallies after he won, and why every report we get says he spends most of his time reading tweets and watching cable news. I'm sure a lot of people become President for this, for notions of history and legacy and all that. To be frank, it's such a meat grinder, running for President, and so obviously awful, that I'm pretty sure really damaged people doing it for some deep reason of insecurity, are overwhelmingly the people most likely to subject themselves to it.

Let's not let this get any more specific than it already has, though. The question was who you thought would win, not even who you wanted to, let alone the many reasons you want them to. I've left it stretch because, duh, it's a big important event and everyone's been pretty cool so far, and it's all we'll be thinking about today, but I do just want to remind everyone of that.

Thanks in advance.

In that case I think Biden will win because of the mail-in voter fraud the Democrats have been working on for four years - then a pandemic happens that conveniently pushes the plan through with a built-in excuse to use mail-in voting nationwide.

Certainly a possibility. It's just incomprehensible for me to believe someone his age would go through all that. If I were him I wouldn't be doing anything.

Sorry it's hard for me to contain myself. 4 years go I didn't even know the difference between a Republican and a Democrat, or a conservative and a liberal. Now I'm gung ho and could go on forever. Even thought I'm in a Democrat state, most people I encounter agree with me about these things. When I find someone who disagrees, they won't talk to me. So now I have all this pent up energy.

I'm not sure why. This is, in fact, exactly what people in his position often do. What else are they gonna do, when they have the money to buy more or less what they want? At that point the only thrill is from conquest, from fame, from power. In many ways it's the only thing left to do, and for someone who even his biggest fans have to agree loves attention, this doesn't seem too mysterious. It's totally on brand and easily explained, I think.

I suspect there are many people like you in that regard, yeah. The surprises have come in large part because we had a relatively static electorate for awhile there, and for both good and ill a very unusual candidate (up against a really unpopular one last time) meant a whole lot of new people engaged in the process who never were before. It's stymied a lot of people who got way too comfortable with the old political fault lines. Those things never last. This one won't either. Be interesting to see what the new standard "party lines" are a decade or two from now, or if the whole concept becomes archaic in a little while.

That said, the "everyone I know" thing is common to all sides. There's a famous quote from Pauline Kael about this: "I don't see how Nixon won, nobody I know voted for him." And IIRC this was in '72, when he won by 20 points. Usually more a commentary about us and the circles we run in than the electorate as a whole.

I even have a personal example here: where I live, it's overwhelmingly Biden signs. Where my parents live, it's overwhelming Trump signs. My impression of what "everyone" thinks would literally shift overnight if I still lived at home and then moved out one day.

The evidence for either claim is vanishingly small, but sure.

DP answered this question for us a long time ago 😆



Yes, I’m really proud of myself for this one. You’ll never hear it another way, just like My Cocaine and Crisp Rat.

I would think the majority of filthy rich, when they reach retirement age, retire. The ones who don't I guess you're assuming they do it for personal glory. Some could, but given the amount of work he does, I think it's fair to say there's an equal chance Trump is doing it for love of country, especially since he's talked about it for years. Of course that might not be a thought for someone who wants to form an opinion based on his bold and brash personality. It could be either, and my guess would be that it's a combination of the two, and that wouldn't be a bad thing in my mind as long as he does put in the work. Why is Biden doing it? He's older than Trump and not to be mean but he doesn't even appear capable. He is also very wealthy, but unlike Trump he's made his money due to being in politics. Has he selflessly done a lot for his country in the last 47 years?

Wait wait.


@Yoda said only yes or no responses. And as a person who has a long and storied history of getting banned for getting political heated on this forum, I stuck to a single one liner response. You guys are full on writing essays!


Don't get me started...

Hey, how's the weather in fantasy land there?


Voter fraud for the past four years when YOUR candidate has made claims that he would stop counting votes after today (which he can't and won't do). Give me a break.

Gonna ask that we cut off that particular line of discussion right there. Shouldn't have even gotten that far.

The latitude so far has been the result of no one person making claims that were too strong. Let's get back to that, please.

Hmm, I'm not sure if that's true. Filthy rich people are usually in public life, and that's not a coincidence. It's easy for people who aren't rich to think that they would never want anything more than that, but in practice it doesn't appear to be true.

Regardless, talking about these people in general isn't the right question, because in this case we have specific facts about the individual. See below.

I don't know what work you mean. As I said, we have so, so many testimonials about him just sort of watching TV and tweeting most of the day, and being specifically disinterested in the tougher, more boring parts of the job. There is very little evidence that there's a lot of serious governance going on. He has a lot of energy for someone, I'll agree with that, it just seems directed mostly towards media coverage and petty grievances and stuff.

I don't think that's fair to say at all, and in fact I think there's a mountain of evidence otherwise. We have a couple decades of him talking himself up in the press, starting TV shows, yakkin' on Twitter, et cetera. You obviously can't believe he started a TV show all about himself for the "love of country," so we go into this question already knowing this is someone who loves attention and loves talking themselves up. This is obviously true even if you really like the guy, nobody really denies it. Why you would somehow think selflessness is the more likely explanation is, to me, kinda perplexing. I've never heard someone make that argument. They usually just argue that they don't care what his motives are as long as he delivers policies they like, fights the people they hate, etc.

I don't know what him having "talked about it for years" is supposed to establish. It's perfectly consistent with the self-involved explanations, as much or moreso than than the selfless ones.

Biden is not wealthy by political standards, not that it matters much to me either way. These kinds of questions are not relevant. They're fine to consider when you're doing a straight "who do I vote for?" consideration, but they have no bearing when deciding which individual things to criticize or not, or when assessing each person's character granularly. "Better than X" is not the same thing as "good." And making that mistake is how we keep getting such bad candidates on both sides.

Just wanna say this: the weather is beautiful right now just about everywhere. This race is far from won by either side, and this is probably going to be one of the closest races any of us have ever seen.

How do we come to the determination that rich people, who happen to be past retirement age btw, are usually in public life? And that's not the same thing as taking a very difficult job.

To me, he appears busier than presidents of the past. He always seems to be on the go and I don't recall him taking vacations like others.

I don't think selflessness is the more likely explanation, but it could be an explanation, or at least part of it. Sure, there's evidence of self promotion, but that's not evidence against wanting to help the country or do some good.


Just wondering why one candidate gets questioned but not the other. If we question one's motivation it's fair to question the other's.

The question was about "filthy rich" people. Perhaps you should define the term, if you wanna delve into it. But if you go down the Forbes' list you'll have heard of most of them in some capacity. Maybe flip the burden of proof and ask yourself how many filthy rich people are anonymous, and how you'd know that, if they actually were?

Also, note that the job being difficult is not in dispute. You don't get credit for taking a tough job if you don't do a lot of the tough parts. You also don't get credit for it if you don't know it's tough when you run for it. We've got hundreds of tweets from the last administration talking about all the things he'd do differently if he was President (many of which are inarguably at odds with what's been said and done since), for example, strongly suggesting he thinks or thought the job was a lot easier than it was, as every heckler in the crowd does.

I'm not sure how you want me to respond to things like "he appears" and "seems to be." I can't account for whatever 3,000-mile-high impression you might be getting from just seeing him doing a lot of stuff.

As I said, even his critics must admit his energy level is impressive for his age. But constantly tweeting or holding rallies is not an example of working hard. Motion is not action, and movement is not work. In fact, I'd argue most of the real work of being President is by definition the boring behind-the-scenes stuff, so the more I see the President out at rallies and being noticeably in public, the less real work I tend to think they're doing. Most people understand this on some level: it's a running joke that politicians love to get in on photo ops and take credit for stuff, and this is kinda what it looks like. Being visibly on TV a lot is not an example of work, and is perfectly in line with the desire of attention I've been talking to.

Correct, it isn't...but it doesn't have to be, because that wasn't the question/claim. The question/claim is about what he's cared about in the past and why he might want to be President. I don't begrudge him talking himself up (although it can get patently silly, like when he pretended to be his own PR guy and made up flattering stories about himself) or starting a TV show all about him, but it'd be kinda nuts to ignore all that stuff when you ask yourself why he might like to be in the most visible job in the world. One of these explanations is 100% consistent with decades of observed behavior, and the other is just a speculative thing that could be part of it because nobody can disprove it.

I'm not sure why saying "just wondering" changes what I'm saying about relevance. You are free to wonder whatever you liked, but you posed this question in a response to me, in a discussion entirely about President Trump's character and motivation.

I have so much to say politically, but have kept THAT pent up around here for 4 years, lol...


His salary is a drop in the bucket, but truth doesn't matter, as long as the people like hearing it. I watch all his rallies and tally in my head what they cheer at most.... I think some people voted for Trump "just to see what it would be like" or for entertainment value, especially if they don't believe the system will ever help them. Some people vote for the challenger if their life isn't going well (COVID, economy, personal life, etc).


With social media now as a huge factor, everything is reduced to emotions rather than ideology (which has been lost, unfortunately).

I remember Election night here was really fun 4 years ago.
You should let Sexy Celebrity come back just for tonight to recapture the magic!

I'm not sure how I'd define filthy rich to be honest with you. Maybe worth over 100mil? Idk, but that's also not the only qualification I'm talking about. There's also past retirement age, taking a difficult job, and doing it for personal glory, and that last part comes with the assumption that we know who's doing it for personal glory which is not an assumption I'm willing to make.

At a time when we have to be skeptical of what we hear or read, do we really know that he's not doing the tough parts? I think saying the job is more difficult than he thought is an honest and normal thing to say. If he didn't know then, he certainly knows now and he's still trying for a second term.

Do you think he's accomplished much as President compared to Presidents of the past?

Sure, but we still don't know that he doesn't put in a lot of work.

I don't feel I'm speculating that he wants to help the country; I'm going by the fact that he's said that. From there, I'm not saying I believe him, I'm saying it's reasonable to think there could be some truth to it.

Fair enough when it comes to our conversation.

His salary is a drop in the bucket, but it's still a positive and it goes against what some people (not here) say about him doing this just for money. Not sure what you mean about the truth because I think they all tell lies. It does make me especially sick when Biden or Harris looks into the camera and says he called Mexicans rapists because they know damn well it's a lie and that it hurts the country. You want to question Trump's character, be my guest, but when they do that you better question their character as well.

Not tonight, he voted Biden