Kneeling During National Anthem Is Unpatriotic

Those that disrespect our flag and what it stands for should be held accountable for their actions.
They do not get to insult the men and women who died for this country, without consequences.
In many other countries their act would be viewed as an act of defiance and rebellion.
If you don't like the USA, stop taking advantage of it and find yourself a better place to live.
I do understand the need for minority protest, but the National Anthem is not the appropriate forum.
We have come a long way to correcting racial injustice and we continue to do so.
Those that are kneeling at an NFL sporting event are living examples of how far we have come.
The very fact that they have become the privileged class and are still protesting is an irony and a disgrace.
Excessive police force has no discrimination. A vast majority of the time, it is a response to those who keep on resisting legitimate authority.
There are situations where authority is abused and those situations should be reviewed case by case.
The current perception is that abuse of power is directed at a particular segment of the population. It is my opinion that police response is based on a suspect's behavior, that leads to an escalated confrontation. It has nothing to do with race.
Currently, in the USA, the majority of residents are Caucasian. They are also the majority killed in police confrontations.
Yes, this country has had a history of racial discrimination, but the times have changed and instead of citizens being grateful for the equal opportunities that they have, some still keep on dredging up the past, as some kind of entitled excuse to get reparations for a reprehensible period in our history that has nothing to do with present reality.
They use the past to rile the present, even though statistically speaking minorities, such as African Americans, who comprise of only 18% of the population, are over represented in the affluential segment of the population, especially when it comes to sports and entertainment.
Does this also qualify as racial discrimination?
Out of hundreds of people killed by the police every year, there is only a handful of media selected cases brought to national attention. Almost all of them happen to be African American, and some of them have been found to be justifiable homicides.
The vast majority of those killed by police officers happen to be Caucasian, but there is no white outcry, march or protest.
The reason for the deaths almost always starts with the inappropriate behavior of the confronted individual.
Lack of common sense is universal. If everyone learned to respond with " yes sir " , " no sir ", during a stop, even if unjustified, there would be a lot less deaths.
Those responsible police officers are human, as well, and they, too, act out of fear at times.
They have been conditioned for mostly negative encounter with the public and their personal safety is foremost on their minds with each new encounter.
In this time of terrorism and looming nuclear confrontation, it is imperative that we stand united, together and show our respect to the flag, instead of fostering division.
We are lucky to live in the greatest country in the world and we should all be grateful for it.

I would just like to add that I am aware that this is a controversial topic but it very timely and relevant and worthy of discussion. I know that there are enough intelligent individuals present here that could engage in the pros and cons of this article and I invite them to do so and be objective as possible, although it could also be interpreted as a very subjective topic, no matter what side of the argument you are on.

Who say's they aren't, and what is accountable to you.

They aren't protesting the troops.

Great those troops that you care so much for dying also did so for freedom if you don't love the freedom to protest go live somewhere else.


If you claim to love the USA you need to love all of it including our freedoms.

Seems perfectly appropriate to me, if the government wants to use the NFL as a recruitment tool and if taxpayers have to fund the stadiums than the players have a right to exercise their free speech. If it's such a big problem for you you can wait five minutes into the game before starting to watch it.

Yes we've come a long way from Slavery and Jim Crowe laws we still have a prison industrial complex, massive economic inequality and KKK marches.

Those kneeling at the NFL have also suffered and taken brain damage for a decade for free to entertain you in a game in which most of the players never saw a cent. They also pay a much higher tax rate than most of the people criticizing them.

Having a President who raped his wife, ducked serving his country, traffics in slaves, refuses to disavow KKK, insulted a gold star family, insulted POW's, is a disgrace to this country. Players making a peaceful protest is not. Get your priorities straight.


People who have been murdered by the cops were guilty of the following crimes
-jay walking
-selling loose cigarettes
-having an expired registration

Police departments have a terrible record of policing themselves, the thin blue line is real.

Abusive authority should be punished not "reviewed"

It is my experience that police response is based on statistics and revenue generation not on protecting the populace but working as defunct tax collectors to the poor.

Which is faulty science as police shooting and confrontations where for decades suppressed.

Which is your opinion not based on any facts.

People are still murdered because of the color of their skin.

And those people have families who are more likely to be poor or incarcerated. Funny how you wish to bring up percentages in wealth what about percentages in incarcerations.

Yes the media tends to focus on the children that are murdered or the cases of police coverups. You should take a knee everytime the news comes on...in the privacy of your own home so as to not offend the "troops".

As they should due to representing a much higher amount of the populace, black people are 2.5% more likely to be shoot and killed by the police than a white person.

No white protests and marches...missed Charolottesville did ya. White people march and protest over paying their taxes. black people protest not being murdered by the cops...where are your priorities.

And ends with police officers not responding with proportion, police officers have multiple tools to take in offenders without using lethal force. Every lethal shooting from a police officer is a failure from that police officer to properly use their training.

Police officers making traffic stops shouldn't even have guns in the first place.

And they act out of racism, anger, boredom, and corruption.


In most cases Police Officers are more likely to be responsible for their own deaths than any suspect.

If you love this country so much stand with all the people not just the ones you agree with.

I'm too dense for debate, so I stole this idea from some guy.

"I go to work everyday so that people can kneel for the anthem."

My brother-in-law in the Navy who has been going back and forth to Guam the past year doing lord knows what.

I don't care for the kneeling, but I'm not black. Kaepernick is really reaping what he sowed because he will never play in the NFL again. I don't think he thought that would ever happen, but if he did he has more courage than me.

How is kneeling before the flag disrespectful ? Prostrating as a sign of respect has been around for ever and a day. Just seems like another loopy conspiracy theory to give people something to be outraged by for shts and giggles

People getting butthurt over kneeling is my favorite thing ever.

PS pretty sure the kneeling is actually more "patriotic" than the complainers.

LOL. Very well said, swany. What are they going to cry about next. Good lord.

As with everything, it changes with context and intent. With the national anthem, people have customarily shown their respect by standing. Thus, refusing to do so is a way of dissenting from that, even if kneeling might be a sign of respect or deference in a completely different context.

Yeah I get that but not really, Yods. Since what time of the complainers has genuflecting been a sign of disrespect (no need for a response. You're probably shaking your head as well). Turning your back, peeing on it, cutting it up or burning it etc yes I can appreciate complete outrage. The faux outrage is so ott these days it's become a complete joke. Have any defence personal complained? I havent seen and would be very surprised if they did.

[quote=Siddon;1804792]Who say's they aren't, and what is accountable to you.

Hard to debate a card carrying liberal but I will give it a try.
They should held accountable to respect the National Anthem and follow proper decorum or should we change that as well, as part of your right?



They aren't protesting the troops.

They are openly defying the Commander In Chief, so yeah they are protesting the troops.





Great those troops that you care so much for dying also did so for freedom if you don't love the freedom to protest go live somewhere else.

I doubt that they died for your right to spit on our flag. You go live somewhere else. Obviously, you don't respect this country enough. You want to change it.




If you claim to love the USA you need to love all of it including our freedoms.

I don't love people like you, who are taking advantage of those so called freedoms.



Seems perfectly appropriate to me, if the government wants to use the NFL as a recruitment tool and if taxpayers have to fund the stadiums than the players have a right to exercise their free speech. If it's such a big problem for you you can wait five minutes into the game before starting to watch it.

Really? Guess what, my season tickets are already cancelled.



Yes we've come a long way from Slavery and Jim Crowe laws we still have a prison industrial complex, massive economic inequality and KKK marches.

Who said it was a perfect world?



Those kneeling at the NFL have also suffered and taken brain damage for a decade for free to entertain you in a game in which most of the players never saw a cent. They also pay a much higher tax rate than most of the people criticizing them.

Oh, so you expect me to cry for guys that made millions for taking and giving hits as if they had no clue of possible consequences.



Having a President who raped his wife, ducked serving his country, traffics in slaves, refuses to disavow KKK, insulted a gold star family, insulted POW's, is a disgrace to this country. Players making a peaceful protest is not. Get your priorities straight.

You can't prove any of that liberal BS rant but I'm sure you voted lying and conniving Hillary.
Trump has already done more for us economically in less than a year than Obama did in 8 years.




People who have been murdered by the cops were guilty of the following crimes
-jay walking
-selling loose cigarettes
-having an expired registration

What's your point? And people have had bricks fall on their heads. Those people did not die because of those " crimes ".

Police departments have a terrible record of policing themselves, the thin blue line is real.

Never said any thing against civilian review boards.



Abusive authority should be punished not "reviewed"

Authority should first be reviewed and if deemed abusive punished.



It is my experience that police response is based on statistics and revenue generation not on protecting the populace but working as defunct tax collectors to the poor.

So, you admit to having no real police experience but that still does not prevent you from spouting.



Which is faulty science as police shooting and confrontations where for decades suppressed.

???



Which is your opinion not based on any facts.

???



People are still murdered because of the color of their skin.

As they are all over the world. In the real world, unfortunately we are not all one. Throughout history wars have been fought because of race and religion.



And those people have families who are more likely to be poor or incarcerated. Funny how you wish to bring up percentages in wealth what about percentages in incarcerations.

Funny, how you don't mention that 18% of the population is responsible for 60% of the crime.



Yes the media tends to focus on the children that are murdered or the cases of police coverups. You should take a knee everytime the news comes on...in the privacy of your own home so as to not offend the "troops".

???



As they should due to representing a much higher amount of the populace, black people are 2.5% more likely to be shoot and killed by the police than a white person.

They also commit 10 times the crime and FYI more blacks are killed by other blacks than they are by whites in this country. Of course, I could always mention current South Africa, where the majority of whites are killed by blacks. So now, you are probably going to say I am a racist but I bet you I have more real black friends then you do.



No white protests and marches...missed Charolottesville did ya. White people march and protest over paying their taxes. black people protest not being murdered by the cops...where are your priorities.

My priorities are trying to get this country together to face a common enemy, some thing that you are completely ignorant of.



And ends with police officers not responding with proportion, police officers have multiple tools to take in offenders without using lethal force. Every lethal shooting from a police officer is a failure from that police officer to properly use their training.

When all else fails, let's revert to generalizations. You really should avoid words like " every " , because that just demonstrates how little you know.



Police officers making traffic stops shouldn't even have guns in the first place.

Traffic stops are the second leading cause of death of police officers. You want them to make stops with exactly what in their hand?



And they act out of racism, anger, boredom, and corruption.

Such a lame and ignorant blanket statement.




In most cases Police Officers are more likely to be responsible for their own deaths than any suspect.

That's right, blame the victim, but that's nothing new for your kind.



If you love this country so much stand with all the people not just the ones you agree with.

Oh, so now you expect me to kneel with you? That movie you will never see.
You really should go somewhere else ( if you are here at all ). You reek of unhappiness.

Well, disrespect as a concept is mostly symbolic, so I think any action can express it, if that's the intent. To be clear, I'm using "disrespect" to mean a withholding of respect or deference, without the pejorative connotations others might attach to it.

As far as I can see, there's no real dispute on this point: the kneeling is specifically intended as a defiance of the normal custom by those doing it. The response isn't based on some weird interpretation or speculation: people are straight-up saying this. The two sides disagree as to whether or not this is correct, or the right place/way to do it, and so on, but they don't really disagree that it's being done for this general purpose.

As for defense personnel, if you mean just military/veterans, sure, lots have complained. And lots have defended it.

Yeah sure I do understand that, but to me defying a traditional custom doesnt have anything to do with thoughts towards the flag. Just seems like such a waste of energy to get upset bout it. As for military personnel complaining - I had no idea. I'll ask my niece what she and her husband think.

Dare I say it, just seems like a first world problem, like the trending conpsiracy at the moment Melania is a body double. Too much cookoo in the coffee.

Disclaimer - I stand for the flags and anthems so my issue is not the kneeling either.

The quality of this discussion is gonna have to go way up if it's going to continue. Phrases like "your kind" need to go, like yesterday. Both of you guys seem to think you have an intimate knowledge of the other's worldview based on a post or two, and that's poisonous to productive discussion.

A few choice things I feel compelled to respond to:

It's not clear what you mean by "accountable." If you mean socially accountable, sure, okay. If you mean they should be forced or punished...yeah, absolutely not.

This is almost a total non-sequitur. Opposing the leader of something in no way implies a personal disapproval for whoever works under them. If it did, wouldn't that mean lots of conservatives were "protesting the troops" when they defied Obama?

Not an argument.

This is a completely indefensible sentiment. No country is perfect, and thus every country can and should continue to change to better strive for improvement.

Also, doesn't the slogan "Make America Great Again" necessarily mean the country needs to change?

They wouldn't really be freedoms if we couldn't, would they?

Not an argument.

You, when you implied that people shouldn't want it to change?

...and the whole argument is one side saying that isn't actually happening.

You can say they're wrong, but this is the argument.

I mean, you just threw out like a dozen generalizations, but okay.

I see this as similar to debates that regularly happen over here when people refuse to sing the national anthem or wear a poppy. At the end of the day, our countries are meant to be the upholders of liberty and freedom of speech, in fact the people that we are supposed to be respecting died for that right. Just as they are within their rights to choose what they do, we are within our rights to personally disagree with them and even be angered about them. Should the government/state get involved and force people to act one way or another, punish people for not doing what they want? Absolutely not. So if you disagree with them and think they are being disrespectful, fair enough, but I honestly find it disgusting how someone in a position of power is using his government position to demonise them.

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Here is my two cents as both a veteran and a cop.

They want to kneel? Let them. But my wallet is closed to the NFL. Clearly the rich NFL players don’t need my money that badly. And I will stick to college football.

Free speech countered by free speech. As it should be.

Let me preface my post with two statements.

• I hate Trump as a president. I think he's a dangerous man who loves the sound of his own voice, far too much.

• My post is in response to the general thread and not to any one person. I've only skimmed the thread and have not read all the post.

I'm not a fan of athletes kneeling during the national anthem. I don't claim to know all their reasons for doing it. I believe it's mainly black athletes protesting what they see as unfair treatment of blacks by the police forces across America.

However...the alleged unfair treatment is not coming from the U.S. government or coming from our national laws...but would be coming from individual police officers, and so any alleged civil rights violations is from the individual and not the U.S. government.

Such displays of kneeling during the national anthem might have been appropriate in the 1950s and 1960s during the civil rights movements, when there was institutionalized discrimination. That discrimination at government level has been done away with. Making the kneeling protest during a national anthem, misplaced.

Worse than misplaced, kneeling by sports players during the national anthem at sport events, is divisive...It suggest that there's some kind of race war going on in America and the end result of suggesting that is to cause more tension, more accidental killings, and black youth will suffer the most. We all suffer from divisiveness and taking sides.

I'd suggest these players take their protest out of the workplace and work to solve any problems they have with police procedures through grass roots organizations and the court systems.

BTW, I believe the vast majority of police are good people and many of the black shooting incidents by cops, have been shown to be blown out of proportion by the media. The media misrepresents the facts to increase their profits, which cause an uproar. And many police officers of all races have been killed just because they wore a blue uniform.

Can someone google translate this? It might be hard to debate with a liberal but it seems to be very hard for you to make a comprehensive argument. I'm actually an independent who voted in the Republican primary this year for a responsible non-Russian colluding John Kasich. Also the America I believe and fought for doesn't force people into being patriotic.


The Commander In Chief was the one responsible for the NFL protested. It was a small group of people before Mr. Draft Dodger decided to call them sons of bitches. That is pathetic


Taking a knee isn't spitting on a flag, see there's thing call proportion and some people are capable in acting in such a manner.

Yeah we get that, it's clear to me that America only exists for some and not for others. You're offended by people taking a knee well I'm offended by individuals who pervert our constitutional rights in the name of patriotism.


Then they are funding the protests

good


So it's fairly obvious that you have a level contempt for those people before they even took that knee. I do wonder what America you want to live in.


I can actually support every claim I made, as for Trump doing more for the economy than Obama, Obama had to fix a number of problems that hurt this country and gave us 8 years of recovery. What has Trump even done for our economy?


IF you are claiming the authority is abused then their is no need for a review you are already claiming the infraction. Civilain reviews also are not on the scene of crimes and working in an investigative role. It is on police officers to act responsibly and to hold their fellow officers accountable not a civilian oversight board


I've been around cops my whole life, half of them I don't trust



Great but you are the one suppressing people's rights to express themselves and protest those things.


And in many cases those "crimes" were created and classified as a way to suppress the black vote which is straight out of the Nixon playbook.

Well I would like to think we would hold our police to a higher standard to murderers. As for your black friends well gee you sure got me there course I don't have any white friends either. I'm an adult man I haven't needed a friend since I was six.


Oh no the common enemy...like Magneto. Quick call the Justice League or maybe we should join the rebel alliance to stop Darth Vader. Seriously how old are you...how about not having enemies period.



To quote you at the start of your tirade

Yes I will say it again...in every single case the lethal shooting was a failure from that police officer. A good cop brings in criminals alive.


1. It's the second leading cause of death because of the police officers driving not from being shot.
2. You don't pull people over with your gun out...you watch too many movies. And actually Police Officers shouldn't have to even pull over motorists if someone is speeding you have the liscense plate number you can give the ticket by mail. It would save lives...but we know you are against that.

So you are saying those cops don't exist at all...funny coming from someone who uses the word "blanket statement"





Most police officers die in car accidents, they aren't "victims" because the crime is their own poor driving


And yet somehow as unhappy as I am I managed not to make a thread detailing my issues with football players taking a knee.

Keep looking for that common enemy buddy

God Bless all the protesters and the United States of America. However, we have a plethora of problems which still need attention and were never "fixed".

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It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. - John Wooden
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