How to move to Canada and become a Canadian citizen

Tools    





Say one active user that is not white.
First, this isn't how the burden of proof works: you made the initial claim, and I'm questioning not only that claim, but the means by which you've determined it. So I'd like to know what it's based in: is it, in fact, skimming the thread and just not remembering any exceptions offhand? That's how you've concluded this, right?

Second, if I can produce such a user, will you admit to being mistaken and reconsider, or will you just say "well, that's an exception" and not change your position (or approach the issue with added humility) at all?

Its is a well established fact that Americans are arrogant and lack interest or information regarding the world as whole.
That wasn't the question. This was the question:
Are you basing this off of a few years living in one spot in the Midwest?
For example, in a conference that I have been in my undergrad an American professor said that the US is a very "insular" country. While a American colleague of mine here in the US said to me: "yes, we hate foreign stuff", and he is a very well educated person as well. Niall Ferguson even said that one of the problems of the US as an world police is the lack of interest Americans have regarding global problems. So: it's a well known fact that Americans are closed to the world. I am surprised you are not familiar with this fact (perhaps you are and just disregard it as plain wrong?).
I regard it as simplistic and based on sloppy terminology. The fact that your response is mostly filled with anecdotal evidence is an example of this.

But more important is that you've already shifted the topic. I didn't dispute the idea that America is "insular." I responded to your claim that America is not really diverse because different races are all divided into their own ghettos. And I'm asking you if you're basing that off of living, for a few years, in one tiny part of the country, because it doesn't sound anything like the place where I live.

A culture can be richly diverse and still be closed. American culture is pretty rich (it is lacking pretty much in comics and animation among the artistic mediums). Being so rich a culture it means that Americans don't easily feel the need to consume foreign culture. So in fact the richness and diversity of American culture contributes to the fact it's closed.
See, now we're getting somewhere. I agree with this completely. I think American culture is both rich and insular, both closed and diverse. And my agreement should go to show just how ridiculous this next paragraph is...

And yes the US is a tremendously closed. The fact that you are insisting in defending it as "open" without even understanding what open culture just simply shows how arrogant and uncompromising you are.
Please, show me where I "insisted in defending it as 'open'"? You won't find it, because I didn't disagree with it. But you made other claims above and beyond this, and those are largely what I've disagreed with. And you've apparently decided to extrapolate that disagreement to everything, which actually makes your post the "arrogant and uncompromising" one--arrogant because it makes assumptions based on very little, and uncompromising because it assumes any disagreement should be treated as total disagreement.



I never called a disagreement about taste an attack. Can you prove me wrong or not?
Yes: just a few weeks ago, I told you that you were not being attacked, just your tastes were, and you suggested it was the same because (this is a direct quote) "you don't choose your tastes. Your tastes are part of you."

You also previously likened criticism of your favorite films as being similar to having your religion attacked. You've since admitted that was a substantial overreaction, but you were quite adamant about it at the time, so one wonders why we shouldn't conclude that all the things you're saying now won't also be admitted to be overreactions a couple of years hence.

For instance, Citizen's attack on my person here was: ... Notice how he arrogantly claims that he perfectly understands my motivations and then proceeds to claim my motivations are petty and he adds on top of that a bigoted perception of my tastes in Japanese pop culture. Obviously, that's a personal insult and also reveals a little bit of the dark side of Citizen as a person.
No, that isn't a personal insult. Notice all the extra insinuations you have to make in your summary of it: you change "claims" to "arrogantly claims" and instead of "understands" you say "perfectly understands." Where is "perfectly" coming from? And while his question was somewhat rhetorical, it was still a question.

Also, how do you reconcile this complaint with your own summary of Americans and American culture? If it's arrogant, and a personal insult, to make unflattering assumptions about other people's motives, then why do you do the same thing when discussing animation with people?

For example, there's a huge difference between saying "Americans in general are ignorant about most Japanese animation" and saying "you just don't like it because you're American." Even if the general conclusion is right, assuming it explains any specific person's thought process is the point at which it becomes insulting and prejudicial. Which you seem to understand quite well, but only when it's happening to you.

I can quote many more personal attacks on my person if you would like to.
You don't need to convince me you've been attacked. You certainly have. But most of those attacks came after you attacked someone else, and a lot of what you classify as "personal attacks" is relatively benign criticism.

I can also quote many examples of bigoted behavior by Americans here. Japanese culture is a very good test to see if a person is a bigot actually: if he/she says something like "I don't like anime, because this stuff is ..." that person is a bigot because he/she is generalizing over an entire artistic medium of a country. It's like saying you dislike American visual culture because American movies feature men in tight costumes and have too many explosions.
This is not what "bigotry" looks like, and I wouldn't call that example about American visual culture bigoted, either. Simplistic, wrong, perhaps ignorant. But "bigoted"? No.

I don't think you have a grasp on what the word "bigot" actually means, and certainly not the huge connotations it has in American culture. Nobody uses "bigoted" to describe relatively unimportant things. It is almost exclusively used to condemn people who are rejecting entire classes of people, or questioning their value as people. It is never used to describe what kind of animation they like.

Even accepting your overly sensitive definition, how would you reconcile it with your own behavior? How is it bigoted to generalize over an entire artistic medium, but not to generalize over an entire group of people?

I did not said that "your entire culture is ignorant and xenophobic". Don't put words into my mouth.
You've said the culture as a whole is, which is what I mean by "entire culture."

Also, you've only stopped just short of saying this literally, anyway. Direct quote: "Americans, are for their vast majority, xenophobic idiots. This applies certainly to the vast majority of this forum members."

I understand that immature people are not able to differentiate themselves from their country and can easily feel offended, however, I did not expect a person that I regarded as mature, Citizen, to behave in such a manner. And I don't think I should restrict myself in expressing my knowledge just because some people might feel offended.
You should probably be considerate no matter who you're expressing yourself to.

Some people are offended by criticism of the country they live in, and this can be understandable. But I don't think that's the problem here. I think the problem here is when you assume general things about America explain specific people's reactions. Being part of a generalized group isn't nice, but having that generalization used to dehumanize you as an individual is what's really bad.

Although I certainly dislike to use the term "like anime" because anime is such a vast and diverse medium that it's impossible for a person to like all genres of anime.
Yes, we've been over this before. It's a good term because it denotes several qualities that almost everyone recognizes, therefore it is a useful descriptor. That's the purpose of words: to convey ideas effectively.

I don't think there's anything special about this situation: fans of anything always have nuanced interests and always chafe at non-fans who lack that nuance. This is not unique to you, or anime. It's literally what happens any time someone very interested in something communicates with someone uninterested (or only slightly interested) in it. You're taking a normal, inevitable, relatively harmless discrepancy in interest and trying to turn it into some kind of cultural martyrdom.

Example: I like baseball. People who don't like baseball tell me it's boring. I don't find it boring at all, and my inclination is to tell them that they only find it boring because they don't understand it. But I resist this impulse, because it lacks basic human empathy, and because I am not obsessed with baseball to the point where I need to internalize their dismissal of it as a dismissal of me or my interest. This is, I think, the healthiest, most mature way to approach people with different tastes.



Guap mate, this sites interests is definitely skewed towards American films of the last 20 years, you are not wrong, but i don't see why people like you and Zotis don't just discuss what you want to discuss with the members that are into what you are. I've said a million times despite not knowing as much as you guys i like checking out some Anime; i've even been receptive to the Magical Girl Anime that the rest of the forum seems to hate,
Well now I know that nominating a magical girl film to a HoF is like brining a black person to have dinner as a guest in the house of a wizard of the KKK.

and the live action films you like are pretty much The Canon of this site; Tarkovsky and Ozu are overtaking Kurosawa (another of your favourites) as the most talked about foreign directors.

The fact is a large portion of the members here aren't cinephiles or whatever horrendous name you want to give them, they are people with a passing interest in movies looking for a place to discuss a particular genre or even movie; Omni mentioned that he came here to discuss Force Awakens and he stuck here and actually became your closest Anime Dude. This is an English Language forum so you either have to accept that there's going to be a strong group of members here that are only here to watch and discuss American films, or you need to look elsewhere.

So yeah. I like you alot Guap and would like you to stick around i think when you want to you contribute a lot to the forum, but if you are just going to be super bitter and try to bait everybody then i'd say it would be best for you to leave.
First, I am not being bitter, I am just articulating a fact that I know: the US is not an open culture. Now, there is nothing inherently wrong in being an open culture or not, it's just a fact: US people are not interested in the world outside of the US, that is a fact.

I was just replying to Yoda that his claim about the "US celebrates diversity" but that is just not true.

And no I don't have a problem with people here being interested in other things than I do. Although I have a problem with people that cannot tolerate different opinions and interests (and tastes) than their own.



Yes: just a few weeks ago, I told you that you were not being attacked, just your tastes were, and you suggested it was the same because (this is a direct quote) "you don't choose your tastes. Your tastes are part of you."
No I did not. You are again making stuff up. I was certainly attacked directly because people were blocking my from participation in forum activities. They were not criticizing the movies I nominated: they were abusing their power of being "moderators" and blocking me from nominating them. This is obvious and I don't understand how you cannot see it.

You also previously likened criticism of your favorite films as being similar to having your religion attacked. You've since admitted that was a substantial overreaction, but you were quite adamant about it at the time, so one wonders why we shouldn't conclude that all the things you're saying now won't also be admitted to be overreactions a couple of years hence.
I actually wasn't serious about it at the time. I was angry at that American aristocratic teenager because of his arrogant and bigoted attitude regarding Miyazaki's work.

No, that isn't a personal insult. Notice all the extra insinuations you have to make in your summary of it: you change "claims" to "arrogantly claims" and instead of "understands" you say "perfectly understands." Where is "perfectly" coming from? And while his question was somewhat rhetorical, it was still a question.
Well, the only thing left to us is to agree to disagree here.

Also, how do you reconcile this complaint with your own summary of Americans and American culture?
Because my perception of American culture was built over decades of intensive exposure to it plus years living and interacting with Americans. I think that I understand Americans really well specially because I know how the world outside is so that I can understand them in a way they can't.

If it's arrogant, and a personal insult, to make unflattering assumptions about other people's motives, then why do you do the same thing when discussing animation with people?
I don't think I do. Can you provide an example?

For example, there's a huge difference between saying "Americans in general are ignorant about most Japanese animation" and saying "you just don't like it because you're American." Even if the general conclusion is right, assuming it explains any specific person's thought process is the point at which it becomes insulting and prejudicial. Which you seem to understand quite well, but only when it's happening to you.
I never said "you just don't like it because you're American." you are putting words into my mouth again. I would never think that being American implies that one unable to like animation.

You don't need to convince me you've been attacked. You certainly have. But most of those attacks came after you attacked someone else, and a lot of what you classify as "personal attacks" is relatively benign criticism.
No they are not. They are attacks on my person because I don't share their bigoted beliefs. For example, Holden Pike in this case said the following "celebration of ethnic diversity by a glorious and open minded American":

The Aviator rules. Of course it's not a timeless masterpiece like Gunbuster or Taxi Driver but it's far above typical hollywood movies.
Gunbuster?!? Did you mean...I don't know, maybe GoodFellas? I am honestly stumped at what Gunbuster could be? You truly do have Anime on the brain. I think they have an operation to fix that, now.
That's a personal attack and also an attack on Japanese culture. It's bigoted agaist Japanese culture and against people who are interested in Japanese culture (which includes the Japanese people as well!) and completely unprovoked. And obviously I did not attack Holden Pike, yet he decided to attack me for no reason other than his bigotry.

I don't think you have a grasp on what the word "bigot" actually means and certainly not the huge connotations it has in American culture. Nobody uses "bigoted" to describe relatively unimportant things. It is almost exclusively used to condemn people who are rejecting entire classes of people, or questioning their value as people. It is never used to describe what kind of animation they like.
Again you are being arrogant. I understand the meaning perfectly and yes it perfectly describes, for example, Holden Pike's attack above.

Bigot means:

"The English noun bigot is a term used to describe a prejudiced or closed-minded person, especially one who is intolerant or hostile towards different social groups (e.g. racial or religious groups), and especially one whose own beliefs are perceived as unreasonable or excessively narrow-minded, superstitious, or hypocritical.[1]"

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry

The Japanese people, by the way, are an ethnic group and a culture:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_people

And the term "anime" means "animation made by the Japanese people".

When you say "I don't like anime" you are actually saying "I don't like animation made by the Japanese people". That is racist: it consists of stereotyping, discriminating and prejudice against animation that it's made by Japanese people. QED

So it's bigoted to make generations regarding anime. Also, part of definition of bigotry: "superstitious" beliefs regarding anime also arose here from that funny user 90's Ace's opinion regarding "anime" when he described it anime fans in similar ways that people described witches in the 16th and 17th century. I conclude that the term bigotry characterizes perfectly the American perception of the animation made by the Japanese people.

And no no no, "anime" is not "a kind" of animation the term anime means all animation made by the Japanese people! Saying anime is "a kind" of animation is like saying that Europeans are "a kind:" of people.

Therefore, saying you don't like "anime" is the same as saying you don't like "movies made by European (that is, white) people". This is as bigoted as saying that "I don't like talking to black people". So, no your are just plain wrong here, completely wrong.

Even accepting your overly sensitive definition, how would you reconcile it with your own behavior? How is it bigoted to generalize over an entire artistic medium, but not to generalize over an entire group of people?
I am not generalizing, I am describing a well established fact: it's not polemic to claim that the US has a very closed and provincial culture.

Also, you've only stopped just short of saying this literally, anyway. Direct quote: "Americans, are for their vast majority, xenophobic idiots. This applies certainly to the vast majority of this forum members."
This was my PM to you not anything I posted on the forum. And yes, it's true because the vast majority of the world's population are idiots and the vast majority of Americans are scared of foreign culture.

Yes, we've been over this before. It's a good term because it denotes several qualities that almost everyone recognizes, therefore it is a useful descriptor. That's the purpose of words: to convey ideas effectively.
So you just ignore me completely again and just repeat your bigoted perception again. No, "anime" is not a good term because it makes people think that "animation made by the Japanese" is a "kind of animation", when it refers to ANY animation made by the Japanese. So no, you are just plain wrong: "anime" is not a useful descriptor at all and you are being tremendously arrogant talking about a field you are completely ignorant about.

I don't think there's anything special about this situation: fans of anything always have nuanced interests and always chafe at non-fans who lack that nuance. This is not unique to you, or anime. It's literally what happens any time someone very interested in something communicates with someone uninterested (or only slightly interested) in it. You're taking a normal, inevitable, relatively harmless discrepancy in interest and trying to turn it into some kind of cultural martyrdom.
No because people who are not interested in American movies don't insult people who are interested in American movies just because they are. Like Holden Pike did in my direct quote.

Example: I like baseball. People who don't like baseball tell me it's boring. I don't find it boring at all, and my inclination is to tell them that they only find it boring because they don't understand it. But I resist this impulse, because it lacks basic human empathy, and because I am not obsessed with baseball to the point where I need to internalize their dismissal of it as a dismissal of me or my interest. This is, I think, the healthiest, most mature way to approach people with different tastes.
No. Your analogy is invalid because baseball has not ethnic element in it's name!

If you invented a name "Whiteball" for baseball played by white players, now that would be close to the meaning of the term "Anime". Then people could say "I don't like "whiteball" only normal baseball (that is, not played by white people)". Now what do you think about that?

If someone says "I don't like anime", that means "I don't like animation made by the Japanese people", and obviously that's bigotry. It's the same as saying "I don't like baseball played by white people". It's not about "baseball", it's about "white people", when people talk about liking or disliking "anime" they are not talking about "animation" they are talking about the fact it is freaking Japanese for gods sake!

The use of the term "anime" as it is used by Westerners is like calling all music made by white people "whitemu" and then saying that "I listen to 50 cent and that I don't like listening to Eminem" because I don't like "whitemu".

Well, now I should call all movies made by white people "cinehite" and then ask people if they wouldn't be interested in a "cinehite" but only "normal movies" directed by native americans, africans and asians.

So, in conclusion anime is obviously a bigoted term.


It's a term used in reference of an ethnic group and a civilization to refer to all animated works of art produced by that civilization and is taken by some Western people to mean "a kind of animation" as if the Japanese people were only capable of producing "a kind" of animation. That's insulting and arrogant to the core, specially in regards to a culture that completely dominates the art form in the world.



Please, show me where I "insisted in defending it as 'open'"? You won't find it, because I didn't disagree with it.
I see so "America celebrates diversity" but it is not open. I guess I mistook your use of "celebrate diversity" to also include the celebration of non-domestic cultural elements instead of your original intention of it meaning "A country that celebrates "diversity": the "diversity" of American culture".

Also, by diversity you obviously meant the diversity of genres of stuff produced by the American cultural industry not actual cultural diversity of different ethnic groups since the US is still essentially a Germanic country.



No I did not. You are again making stuff up.
I just gave you a direct quote. When I explained the difference between a person and their tastes, you argued there was no difference.

They were not criticizing the movies I nominated: they were abusing their power of being "moderators" and blocking me from nominating them. This is obvious and I don't understand how you cannot see it.
Simple: because they gave a perfectly reasonable explanation (you nominated a film in the middle of a series, and not something standalone). And if it was "obvious," why did jal90, who is not some "xenophobic redneck" ignorant of anime, agree with them?

I actually wasn't serious about it at the time. I was angry at that American aristocratic teenager because of his arrogant and bigoted attitude regarding Miyazaki's work.
Except:

1) You said it to me, personally, and not to him.

2) When I mentioned this just a couple of weeks ago, you didn't say "that wasn't serious." You said (another direct quote): "I agree that was immature."

Because my perception of American culture was built over decades of intensive exposure to it plus years living and interacting with Americans. I think that I understand Americans really well specially because I know how the world outside is so that I can understand them in a way they can't.
Exactly! You think your bigotry doesn't count because you think it's correct. All bigots think this. If I ask someone why a minority race is inferior in some way, they'll always have reasons. They might even have anecdotal evidence (maybe even a lot of it). But that doesn't explain or justify their application of it to individuals.

Also, I'll ask for a third time: is this being based on a few years of living in one part of the country?

I don't think I do. Can you provide an example?
Wait, you're disputing the idea that, when people have criticized anime to you, you've ascribed it to their being American?

If so, I'll be happy to gather examples, but I want some kind of assurance you'll admit otherwise when I do. I'm not going to go off and do a bunch of work only to have you brush it off as irrelevant, or say "I actually was not serious about it at the time."

I never said "you just don't like it because you're American." you are putting words into my mouth again. I would never think that being American implies that one unable to like animation.
But you have implied it explains when someone doesn't like it. I see a lot of hedging in the language that you might use to disingenuously claim otherwise, like when someone says they don't like a narrative and you say "some people..." (emphasis added) "...might have difficulty digesting a narrative that's different and more complex than typical Hollywood movies I guess."

Bigot means:

"The English noun bigot is a term used to describe a prejudiced or closed-minded person, especially one who is intolerant or hostile towards different social groups (e.g. racial or religious groups), and especially one whose own beliefs are perceived as unreasonable or excessively narrow-minded, superstitious, or hypocritical.[1]"

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry

The Japanese people, by the way, are an ethnic group and a culture:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_people

And the term "anime" means "animation made by the Japanese people".

When you say "I don't like anime" you are actually saying "I don't like animation made by the Japanese people". That is racist: it consists of stereotyping, discriminating and prejudice against animation that it's made by Japanese people. QED
Notice the term you didn't link to (from the same source): Anime. There, you'll find this:
"In English, anime (/ˈænəˌmeɪ/) is more restrictively used to denote a "Japanese-style animated film or television entertainment" or as "a style of animation created in Japan".
In other words: not just a term for animation made by a group of people, but for a style common to that group of people. And there is nothing bigoted about not liking a style.

By the way, even if this definition were not listed, it should be obvious that this is how people talking to you were using it. You can tell quite easily from context that they don't care who made it, they just don't like the aesthetic tropes they tend to see in it. So even without being literally wrong, you'd still be calling people "bigots" for merely using a word incorrectly (or just loosely), which is absurd. That's what people do when they're going out of their way to take offense. Or when they're just really mad people don't have the same tastes and are trying to find ways to give their opinion more force.

This was my PM to you not anything I posted on the forum.
So? It describes your beliefs.

So you just ignore me completely again and just repeat your bigoted perception again. No, "anime" is not a good term because it makes people think that "animation made by the Japanese" is a "kind of animation", when it refers to ANY animation made by the Japanese. So no, you are just plain wrong: "anime" is not a useful descriptor at all and you are being tremendously arrogant talking about a field you are completely ignorant about.
I don't think you understand what we're talking about. Words are useful when they convey ideas. When people say "anime," almost everyone on this forum thinks of an aesthetic style. Therefore, it's a useful word for describing that style. That's it. The fact that you use the word differently is irrelevant for this particular point.

Also, notice that you've now extended this broken logic even further: apparently I'm "bigoted" for even thinking the word might mean different things to different people! That's a remarkable claim.

No. Your analogy is invalid because baseball has not ethnic element in it's name!

If you invented a name "Whiteball" for baseball played by white players, now that would be close to the meaning of the term "Anime". Then people could say "I don't like "whiteball" only normal baseball (that is, not played by white people)". Now what do you think about that?
That's a terrible example, for one very obvious reason: the "ethnic element" you mention is not in the name "anime." It's not "Japanimation." It's just a word in Japanese, so the equivalent for baseball would be "béisbol," which is baseball in Spanish. And if someone said they found "béisbol boring," I wouldn't be offended or upset at all, and I certainly wouldn't think they were bigots.

If someone says "I don't like anime", that means "I don't like animation made by the Japanese people", and obviously that's bigotry.
See above: in the context of the discussions you've had about anime, what indication other than the use of that word have they ever given you that they were criticizing the entire Japanese people? Virtually none, right? That's because they were using the word to describe an aesthetic.

You must know this. You must realize that's what they mean. Which means you're deliberately assuming they're using your definition (knowing they aren't), and then calling them bigoted for that definition (which they aren't using). That's nuts, even before we get to the part where the word has different connotations to English-speakers, as established above.



I see so "America celebrates diversity" but it is not open. I guess I mistook your use of "celebrate diversity" to also include the celebration of non-domestic cultural elements instead of your original intention of it meaning "A country that celebrates "diversity": the "diversity" of American culture".
1) Where did I say it celebrates diversity? Sounds like you're misremembering my initial post.

2) Being diverse and being closed are not mutually exclusive. You know how I know this? Because you said so yourself, literally two posts ago:

A culture can be richly diverse and still be closed. American culture is pretty rich (it is lacking pretty much in comics and animation among the artistic mediums). Being so rich a culture it means that Americans don't easily feel the need to consume foreign culture. So in fact the richness and diversity of American culture contributes to the fact it's closed.



Simple: because they gave a perfectly reasonable explanation (you nominated a film in the middle of a series, and not something standalone). And if it was "obvious," why did jal90, who is not some "xenophobic redneck" ignorant of anime, agree with them?
Just want to add that was after Guap had tried to nominate a tv show which made everybody believe he was trying to troll us, since in an earlier HOF he nominated a tv show and it caused loads of drama. He seemed desperate to make it as awkward as possible, no one else had any trouble nominating and he has probably seen more animated films than any of us.



Sorry if I'm rude but I'm right
Say one active user that is not white.
You all just don't get Guap's sense of humour! Yoda's green!
__________________
Look, I'm not judging you - after all, I'm posting here myself, but maybe, just maybe, if you spent less time here and more time watching films, maybe, and I stress, maybe your taste would be of some value. Just a thought, ya know.



Also, Miss Vicky isn't white, off the top of my head. Mack isn't either, though she pops in and out. We'd find plenty more if we actually scoured the thread, but I'm not sure what the point would be, since the response would surely be to write them off as exceptions.



This is sad. If someone thinks MoFo is a place for racial tension, bigotry, and strife then Id LOVE to show someone from the NAACP this website and then them call that accuser ...what they really are.
Just sayen'



Sorry if I'm rude but I'm right
Well, Guap, I think you're mixing up personal preferences with racism. If I say that (in my opinion) black people are better jazz players than white people, it doesn't mean I'm racist against white people. It only means that I enjoy jazz played by blacks more. If I say that I find Asian women way more attractive than black women, it doesn't mean I think black women are subhumans and only deserve a gas chamber. If somebody says he dislikes anime, it doesn't mean he he hates Japanese culture (or people as you're wrongly trying to prove). It simply means he doesn't like it.

The alleged 'personal' attacks you're so sensitive to are mainly opinions made on films you love. Only a couple of these were jokes, that you would've understood, if you weren't so touchy.

Yes, most Americans indeed are ignorant, but so are Japanese, Brazilians and Poles. The majority of world consists of ignorant and/or stupid people, but it doesn't mean that every one citizen of any of these countries is ignorant. Generalization can be pretty painful for people, who don't fit the "stereotype".

And by now I'm not really sure if you're serious or just trolling, because your posts in several threads would suggest it's the latter. But what do I know, I'm just a puny Hollywood drone.



Also, Miss Vicky isn't white, off the top of my head. Mack isn't either, though she pops in and out. We'd find plenty more if we actually scoured the thread, but I'm not sure what the point would be, since the response would surely be to write them off as exceptions.
I'm only part white... on the inside I'm red, white and blue!



Its funny, I made this thread as kneejerk reaction to the election, but for comedies sake I shouldve said Mexico instead. It would be much cheaper too.



I just gave you a direct quote. When I explained the difference between a person and their tastes, you argued there was no difference.
No I didn't say that: for the 100th time, STOP PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH,

A persons tastes are a part of a person but not the whole of a person. They reflect a person's culture and personality. For instance, you can deduce that if a persons top 100 favorite movies only contains Hollywood movies that person is either:

1 - Not very knowledgeable about movies.
2 - American, Canadian or British.

Also, a person's taste in terms of genres reflect that person's personality. A person that likes crime movies a lot is usually very different from a person that likes science fiction movies. The first type tends to be more down to earth, more practical and be more close minded while the second tends to have more open ideas about the world.

Simple: because they gave a perfectly reasonable explanation (you nominated a film in the middle of a series, and not something standalone). And if it was "obvious," why did jal90, who is not some "xenophobic redneck" ignorant of anime, agree with them?
Thing is: he ACCEPTED another sequel: Madagascar 2. So that excuse is completely invalid: if they rejected my nomination for "technical" grounds he would have rejected Madagascar 2. Therefore the "technical" argument is moot.

Also, Jal90 did not watch anything related to Nanoha so it's not like he knew what he was talking about. His justification was that he didn't want to watch a movie adaptation of a series he was planning to watch, which is as valid as claiming you cannot nominate The Godfather because you want to read the book.

And later I nominated a THIRD movie and he just discarded it. That's tremendously disrespectful.

Wait, you're disputing the idea that, when people have criticized anime to you, you've ascribed it to their being American?
Precisely, because Anglo-Americans are the ones who invented a term to describe Japanese animation. Other people just don't have such a term so they cannot "criticize anime" because "anime" does not exist for them. For me "anime" does not exist.

But you have implied it explains when someone doesn't like it. I see a lot of hedging in the language that you might use to disingenuously claim otherwise, like when someone says they don't like a narrative and you say "some people..." (emphasis added) "...might have difficulty digesting a narrative that's different and more complex than typical Hollywood movies I guess."
True that. Many people here have very narrow ideas of what a movie is supposed to be and then when the movie fails to satisfy they prejudiced notions of what a movie is supposed to be they don't like it.

Notice the term you didn't link to (from the same source): Anime. There, you'll find this:
"In English, anime (/ˈænəˌmeɪ/) is more restrictively used to denote a "Japanese-style animated film or television entertainment" or as "a style of animation created in Japan".
In other words: not just a term for animation made by a group of people, but for a style common to that group of people. And there is nothing bigoted about not liking a style.
Which "style" you speak about?

This is "anime"?



Then, obviously, this is not:



Neither is this:



Or this:



Or this:



Or this:



Or this:



Or this:



Or this:



So, that's 9 styles. Which one of these 9 is your so called "anime"? If 1 is "anime" the other 8 are not "anime". Or maybe it refers to another style than these 9?

So clearly, 80-90% of Japan's animation is not "anime", given any style you might choose to call "anime". Neither is 90% of my favorite animation is "anime" according to any style that might fit that "definition".

Thing is, nobody who is serious about animation uses "anime" to mean a style because it's bigotry to think that Japan's animation is all the same anyway. There is no such thing "anime style" which comes as obvious to a person who is not ignorant about animation.

So tell me, please, which one of these 9 styles (or another style) is the style people here use to describe "anime"?

Because from people's reactions here they appear to use "anime" to mean "any style of drawing portraying females with exaggerated facial features." Sometimes they use the term "anime" to mean "animated TV show featuring fantasy and action".

By the way, even if this definition were not listed, it should be obvious that this is how people talking to you were using it.
How is that obvious? It's obvious to me that there is no such thing as "anime style" unless you pick one of the dozens of styles used in Japan (excluding all others). There isn't actually a typical or common style to Japanese animation.

You can tell quite easily from context that they don't care who made it, they just don't like the aesthetic tropes they tend to see in it. So even without being literally wrong, you'd still be calling people "bigots" for merely using a word incorrectly (or just loosely), which is absurd. That's what people do when they're going out of their way to take offense. Or when they're just really mad people don't have the same tastes and are trying to find ways to give their opinion more force.
I don't think you understand what we're talking about. Words are useful when they convey ideas. When people say "anime," almost everyone on this forum thinks of an aesthetic style. Therefore, it's a useful word for describing that style. That's it. The fact that you use the word differently is irrelevant for this particular point.
Not true. In this forum the term anime is used to means all animation made by the Japanese people. When people here say they dislike anime they are saying they dislike all animation made by the yellow Japanese and that they only like animation made by white people. Although I only remember 1 person here saying that he disliked anime and he made that in explicit reference to ALL Japanese animation.

Of course, since most people here are completely clueless about Japanese comics and animation they think everything these yellow people draw looks the same so they think that there is such an "anime style", which is, again, bigotry.

Thinking that all Japanese animation follows the same style is like thinking that all Jewish people think in the same way.

See above: in the context of the discussions you've had about anime, what indication other than the use of that word have they ever given you that they were criticizing the entire Japanese people? Virtually none, right? That's because they were using the word to describe an aesthetic.
An aesthetic that changes for every single case apparently.

You must know this. You must realize that's what they mean. Which means you're deliberately assuming they're using your definition (knowing they aren't), and then calling them bigoted for that definition (which they aren't using). That's nuts, even before we get to the part where the word has different connotations to English-speakers, as established above.
Of course, I know now that most people here think that all Japanese animation, that is, all animation not made by white people (since nobody here ever watches anything animated from Korea, China or other non-white countries anyway), looks exactly the same. They even claim that Miyazaki's work looks exactly the same as Satoshi Kon, since it's all "anime" and "anime" is a "style", right?

I can only conclude that everybody in this forum must be blind to not perceive the difference between the style used in Miyazaki's films and in Kon's films.

Or actually, understand that the fact that the concept of all Japanese comics and animation being ONE style is in itself deeply racist and ignorant.

Thing is, there is really no such thing as "anime" as an style (as I clearly demonstrated 9 different styles in the 15 minutes while writing this and I can demonstrate many more). The word's only actual effective use and meaning refers to the ethnic group: Japanese and that is the effective meaning they used. For example: Holden Pike never watched "Gunbuster" he only knew it was Japanese and was animated and he called it "anime". Also by associating "anime" with me and therefore my favorite works of animation, my favorite lists which contains many styles, he obviously was using the term in it's ethnic sense and not in it's "style sense" (WTF that might mean).

Or when Miss Vicky said back in 2012 that they should just block "Japanese animation" (not "anime") from being nominated in the HoF. That's ethnic discrimination in the face.

This discussion is a waste of my time: your objective is not understand anything, your objective is simple "refutation".

Also, can you ever find a single EXAMPLE of a person using ANIME to mean a style? I don't think there ever was a case in this forum when a person used "ANIME" to mean a "single style".

1) Gunslinger use of the term just now in the Ghost in the Shell thread: "Dragonball, Avatar and GitS" are "anime", which are 3 styles. He used the term to mean "animation that is not comedic".

2) Omnizoa use of the term "anime" is of ALL Japanese animation, given the high variety of styles in his thread.

3) Zotis use of the term "anime" if of ALL Japanese animation again.

4) When you talk to me about "anime" you are obviously talking about ALL Japanese animation.

5) When some user whose name I don't recall said back in 2012 he "dislikes anime" he was saying he dislikes "all Japanese animation".

Anyway, you are being silly here it's rather obvious that you are trying to defend the indefensible: you are defending ethnic discrimination by your fellow Anglo-Americans against other ethnic groups and you are sure that they are not discriminating anything.



Its funny, I made this thread as kneejerk reaction to the election, but for comedies sake I shouldve said Mexico instead. It would be much cheaper too.
Thing is, Trump is a proof of how deeply racism is America. You have clearly a man who says "he is going to deport millions of these Mexican rapists" out your "our country" and build a wall isolating the "white Germanic America" from the "barbarian half-white-half-aztec Mexico". He promised to cut imports and manufacturing things inside the US as well, which is also a form of "economic xenophobia".

So many of the people who voted for Trump want to see the US isolating itself from the world, they are deeply xenophobic and bigoted people who don't "like" people who speak a language different than they do and who don't "like" people who look different than they do and they don't "like" animation that is made in different "style" than the animation that the fellow Germanic white Americans make (since if one thing can be used to refer to "anime style" is the fact that none of the dozens of comic art styles used in Japan looks exactly the same as an American comic or cartoon art style).

Actually, it's pretty easy to guess that people who "dislike anime" tend to be conservative and vote Republican while the animation fans would tend to vote democrat or libertarian.



Are you even aware that the Godfather of Manga and Anime, Tezuka, was greatly influenced by Walt Disney and Max Fleischer? Since they are both American animators, does that make Tezuka a racist? Because by your ignorant definitions of racist on this board, it sure sounds like it would.

Maybe I'm around a bunch of racists in the tournament thread I'm playing in. They voted out my SHINee nomination in one turn. My daughter loves those guys, so a young girl from our street called her a racist. She was called a racist, because she has a crush on a few Korean boys. I said yeah, cause you hate all us whities. It's completely ignorant, just like this. Some people simply don't like it. It doesn't get any deeper than that. Yeah, there are SOME racists in life, but you are way out of line, calling tons of people racist, simply because they don't care for this. When was the last time you studied a subject that didn't interest you? I would assume you were in school, the last time that happened. See, we are out of school, and no longer forced to study topics that don't interest us. That doesn't have anything to do with racism, and you seriously need to stop insulting our entire Country.