Lost (Possible Spoilers)

...which is what I said four posts ago.

Haven't a clue who took Miles. And I'm curious as to what's up with the dead body we saw, too. Chang/Candle is a bit more sinister than we know.

And I'm assuming that, although Miles's mother tells her son later that his father abandoned them, it seems to me as if one of two things happens: Either Mom finds out Dad is killing people and is involved in bad stuff and takes Miles back to the real world (seems unlikely, given what we know about how they don't like people leaving), OR Chang/Candle knows things are going to get bad and violent and so he sends his wife and child away for safety reasons. This seems slightly more likely, if only because we've seen shots of him with his wife and baby ... and he seems content and happy with them, not burdened.

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Was glad to see Faraday back, hopefully that won't be last see of him; was just thinking he was probably one of the best characters atm. Thought when they went to the Hostiles we'd see what had become of Sayid. Widmore being Faraday's dad was bit of a nothing twist imo, unless of course it causes some friction on the Island- since i'm guessing he must still be with the Hostiles. Anyone want to speculate whether or not whatever the "variables" was still always meant to happen?

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I think you're right that Widmore is still there -- we see an adult Ben seeing him off in the sub in an earlier episode as part of a flashback that went back to a time post-purge, which means he'd still be there in 1977.

Yeah, the Widmore-as-dad thing was something I hadn't considered until last night ... but I should have. I mean, c'mon. We have a ton of characters who are finding out odd things about their paternity: Miles is Dr Chang's son; Claire is Christian Shepard's daughter; now Daniel is Widmore's son. They seem to be enamored of the soap-opera plot twist, don't they?

It is fun, though. And I'm still a bit befuddled about how time loops now that there are present-day people in the past. I'm confused at how Eloise could know/remember she had shot her own son in 1977 if he didn't go back there until he was an adult in the 2000s. It's one of those paradoxes of time travel fiction that never seems to work for me. Daniel insists that the reason any of them can die is that *this* is *their* present ... and yet his present-day mother already has a memory of shooting her son in 1977. (Note: I know she has the memory because of when she smacks Widmore and tells him, "Don't you dare tell ME about sacrifice!" It's clear then that she is aware she has sent Daniel back to his own death by her own hand. Plus, Daniel himself confirms it with his dying (?) breath, "You knew, but you sent me back anyway?")

Loop de loop? It's a paradox, and I'm getting a little miffed that the show is trying to explain it but yet it's pretty much unexplainable. It's FUN, but it's frustrating because it feels as if they are promising a satisfying explanation. But I don't see how we will get one. At least, not one that satisfies me and my logic.

Only way i can see out the loop of Eloise having known in advance something that would happen in the past, while Faraday was living in the present is that it was always meant to happen. It's a somewhat interesting way towards a resolution, striving to prevent the WHOLE thing happening, which would also mean, if successful, Faraday never dies? I hope he isn't dead since he was one of the better characters and was bit disappointed to see us catch up to the promising start.

In Whatever Happened, Happened, Miles explains that Sayid always shot Ben, but he just never experienced it yet.

So Eloise always shot her son (she knew this) only he never experienced it yet until now, because this was his present. I do not see a paradox here.

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Suspect's Reviews

Well, I see the typical paradox with time-travel shows/movies/scenes. If Eloise has a real memory of really shooting Daniel in 1977, then why is there never a 1977 in which Daniel is merely still a child? What I mean to emphasize is this: There has to be a timeline in which Daniel grows up the first time, in which he goes through 1977 the "right" way. He can't come back to be shot by his mother until he grows up and comes back from 2007.

So, although they say he "always" gets shot by his mother, to me it seems more logical that there is one initial time-loop in which this does not happen, in which Daniel grows up first. Just one. That would solve the logic problem for me.

I see exactly what you're saying, but it just makes no sense because time-travel as a storyline always brings in logic problems. So this is a generic gripe about time-travel plotlines, I suppose.

IMHO.

People always find problems with Time Travel plot lines. In your case you want an initial starting point. I don't know, I try to not really poke holes in time travel theories unless it's blatantly obvious.

Think about this though....where did the compass come from? If Richard gave it to Locke in present time to give it to him in the 50's.....who had it first?

See, I try to leave stuff like that alone.

See, I TRY to leave that stuff alone too ... but it gets nearly impossible sometimes! It's just my mind trying to make sense of it. I think part of it is that, as a writer, I constantly wonder how I'd write such a thing myself.

And when I can't answer that question, then I try to see how THIS writer did it. And if it seems to have holes in it, I wonder... because we young writers are taught to be careful of plot holes and taking advantage of the reader/viewer.

So for me it's an awkward line that they're walking. One I myself wouldn't want to walk as a writer....

Great episode tonight. Can't wait for the finale.

I don't think i like this blow the bomb direction. Can't see it happening, especially knowing there's more to come. Getting bit fed up now of the plod and taking tiiiime to get anywhere. Annoyed Faraday is dead; he best come back from another timeline or something. Was tonight the first confirmation of the actual time Locke and Sun where in? Richard is seemingly less prescient that i thought and considering he's immortal, having Locke be behind his actions is taking away a lot of his mystery. Suppose the only real answers that can expect in the finale are what will happen to the three in the sub, i see Juliette dying since she's been surplus for a while, hopefully the bomb group in the past will reveal some more answers about the history of the Island, Hurley will probably rescue someone inadvertantly but the Locke / Jacob bit is where i'm most interested.

They scattered us in all directions last night. The preview for next week has Juliet and Sawyer standing back on the island, so somehow they get back off the sub. I assume that goes for Kate too.

And yeah, the bomb thing has me thoroughly confused. Faraday didn't get to TELL anyone what he meant by detonating a bomb being the key to undoing everything, and yet Jack just forges ahead and assumes that he has enough specifics and details to do this correctly. No wonder Kate walked away. It seems like foolishness, with as little info as we're getting on why this is supposed to work.

If the goal is to somehow keep that "energy" from escaping upon drilling, then how would detonating an entire BOMB make that better??

As for Richard: He seems to be a typical right-hand man, a "yes" man too often. It does take away some of his mystique to have him just saying "Okay, sure" to everything the current leader says. Wouldn't an advisor, like, errr, advise once in a while?

All in all, it felt like a good setup for the finale.

The idea i believe was to set off the bomb which would prevent Dharma uncovering the electical energy in the station worksite, thus rendering the need for the hatch which would mean to button for Desmond not to press, meaning the plane would never crash. So Jack would die detonating it but would never get to that point in his current present by detonating it.....

Im with you PT on the most interesting bit being Locke / Jacob. Jack is being his usual stupid self with the whole bomb thing. Chalk it up to him just needing to be in charge - we always knew he wouldnt play follow the leader for long. Even Farraday, if he is right about what he intended to do, would've wiped himself out of existence had the bomb detonated on the island with his mother still there. She would never have left, thus no little Farraday.

BORING! So, I anticipate no bomb detonation, and if there is one, it will most likely be a different outcome than expected.

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I MISS THIS FRICKING SHOW SO MUCH!

On a plus note, i have the WHOLE season to watch upon my return. ACTUALLY thinking of going home tomorrow so i can lock myself away for a week to watch.

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OKAY, definite spoilers about the Season 5 finale here....

I was pondering the finale just now while packing my husband's lunch. Then SUDDENLY it hit me. And here's what I just posted on another Lost forum, to explain the non-dead Locke:

I don't know WHY this is happening, but I'm convinced I know WHAT is happening.

The character sitting with Jacob in the beginning of the episode (far in the past, played by Titus Welliver of Deadwood fame) can somehow not only travel in time (like Jacob can) but also can make people think he is someone else -- but only dead people.

So... He not only appeared as the dead Locke, but has been appearing as other dead people all along -- Christian, Charlie, Libby, Alex. His goal has been to find a way to kill Jacob all along (for what reason, we will find out in season 6), and he has been traveling around in time and taking on the appearance of dead people in order to try to get Jacob killed. Nothing has been working. In fact, perhaps the person doesn't even look like the character on the beach in the first scene. THAT could be another dead apparition he's taking on during that time period.

It does seem as if the "loophole" was to find some way to kill Jacob. So until now he had been appearing as the wrong dead person, and appearing to the wrong living people.

He got closer by appearing to Ben as Alex, but that wasn't quite enough. As Alex, he told Ben to listen to Locke ... and then appeared to Ben as Locke too, in order to tell him to kill Jacob.

My thoughts on the finale and the season in general.

SPOILERS


Well, I always said that as soon as Dan said do detonate the bomb, to save everyone, it was the incident all along. Miles says this, but after tonight I'm not too sure.

I loved the flashbacks and seeing Jacob in each one (except Juliet) and wanted an answer for this, but they decided to kill him, which makes me really upset. I wanted at least some answers in this final, but I didn't get any. Instead I got a whack of more questions and I do not think they can wrap this up in one season.

Sayid and Juliet dying? Okay, anything can happen on this show, are they all dead? I hope not. I did not invest 5 years in this show to have them all die. But things that happened during this episode point towards it still being a circle. Marvin Candles hand is one thing, Radzinsky living is another. Yet having Juliet be the one who detonates the bomb is a kink in it though. Jacob never appeared in her flashback. Interesting. Also her flashback seemed to only serve the purpose of her 'leaving' Sawyer, since her parents split.

Quick searching shows that Richard spoke Latin and said "He Who Will Save Us". Is Jacob a Jesus like figure and the other guy the devil? Is the other guy the smoke monster? I remember the producers saying back in season 3 that we've already seen the smoke monster in another form, this led people to say that it could take on human form. Evidence of Eko's brother Yemi appearing right where the smoke monster was before killing him and Eko knowing it wasn't his brother points to this. Jacob VS Smoke Monster? This show went from Losties on island, to Losties on Dharma island, to Losties on Others island, to Leader of Others VS Widmore, to Losties going back in time causing everything that has happened to them, to Jacob vs other guy.

That other guy wanted to kill Jacob, so I think he's dead at the end, despite what others online have said about him still being alive. Why did he need Ben to kill him? What was this loop hole? Locke? Is this whole show about killing a character we've just been introduced to? I really liked him in this episode and wanted more....I'm still kinda upset.

I was shocked seeing Locke in the box, I thought it was either

A: A bomb
B: Jacob
C: Christian

Sun and Jin are nothing this season and seem not important to the story. Seeing Jacob in their flashback gives me hope that they mean more later on.

All in all I thought it was a decent episode, yet not what I wanted from the cliffhanger. I knew that's how they would end it though.

Please let Jacob be alive, he is the key to a lot of answers, MORE JACOB!!

I still think Season 3 final was the best and most exciting.

TUS, read my post above! I can easily see this as a sort of eternal cat and mouse game between Jacob and whoever the other guy was (man in black, for now). He even says "You brought it here" in regard to the ship they are watching.

So, Jacob calls people to this magical island (which has been around a long time, judging from the Egyptian statue), perhaps to test them as God allowed the devil to test Job? And then the man in black has been trying to find a way to kill Jacob for aeons. He's been periodically finding out who Jacob chooses to bring to the island (seems he handpicks people a lot), and then has been trying to find a way to use them to kill Jacob by appearing to them as apparitions of dead people.

And since he finally realized that BEN would be a good candidate to want to kill Jacob, he had to appear first as Alex (to tell Ben to listen to Locke) and then appear as Locke (to tell Ben to kill Jacob).

But Locke wasn't dead yet -- so he had to backtrack and start planting the idea that Locke would have to die into the heads of a few people, until Locke himself was convinced that was true. Once Locke was dead, this man in black could then appear as Locke and tell Ben to kill Jacob. Voila.

And, if this IS some eternal spiritual game, then do not fret. Because I bet Jacob can and will show back up somehow....

... especially depending on whether or not that bomb went off.

BTW, I'm still not convinced the bomb went off. That brilliant flash we saw at the end could have been the first EMT thing coming out of the future hatch area. We've seen that blinding flash a bunch of times before ... including back when Desmond turned the key, etc. etc.

Well, when we saw the box i KNEW it was Locke, was the only logical thing that could be on the plane and plus the cold ice smoke that came out. I predicted Juliette would be the one to croak, mianly because she's been surplus for a while now.

I'm guessing the loop hole was that 'the man in black' couldn't kill Jacob himself and had to get someone else to do it. I'm not convinced TMIB is responsible for all the apparitions considering what Jacob said to Hurley in the taxi out the jail, though it does make a lot of sense with Ben's daughter. Jacob does have a recurring message of 'you have a choice' which i'm guessing plays into a main theme. Though was interesting to see their reaction to the cabin and also why Ben took Locke there? I'm presuming Christian was first person TMIB took form off and when Locke and Ben visited the cabin he saw the potential of those two. Was weird seeing Ben finally in position of no power, i thought he was gonna stab Locke in the back tbh and the Ajira flight people was his Ace.

Only just realised the Ajira flight bloke was one from the kidnap van- can't remember who they grabbed though! Not over the moon on a whole new flight of character added for this season, Miles is only one character left not from the original core group, well and Ben i suppose.

I thought it was pretty safe to say the bomb did explode but i'm sure i've somewhere that the bomb going off was probably something that was meant to happen anyway. I don't think Sayid is dead, there was meant to be one death and that was Juliette. I would be very annoyed if they were all gone. As Aus says, i don't think Jacob is dead. Would have been cool if he'd always been in the background of flashbacks from the start. Did at one point think Richard had always been Jacob. My guess is he was Captain of the Black Rock. Also Rose and Bernard- Adam and Eve skeletons?

Oh heck yeah, re. Rose and Bernard. It would be amazing at this point if it's NOT them.

As for the bomb thing: How do you explain anyone nearby surviving if the bomb went off? I mean, the thing was "thermonuclear," as someone said. Radiation exposure alone would kill them later. This is mostly why I think it either totally nuked everything and they DO end up landing in L.A. (and somehow still find each other: Season 6) ... or it didn't go off at all.

Because otherwise, the folks around the Swan building site would all be toast in one way or another. And I don't see them losing all those characters.

I always thought Richard came on the Black Rock and he was this way because of Jacob...well one of those things came true.

Maybe the bomb did go off, but all it did was sent the 06 plus plus Jin, Sawyer and Miles back to 07/08 whatever time it is. It was a white flash, just like the ones we see when they time skipped. Maybe when Jacob said their coming, he did mean the time travel peeps and not Illana.