A-Level Film Help!!!! (Vietnam War and movie narratives)

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Hi, I am an A2 film studies student needing opinions on the Vietnam war. Underneath is the question i am analysing and answering:

How did the Vietnam War change the narratives and conventions in US War movies?

Any of your knowledgeable opinions and points would be kindly taken on board

Many thanks Cini



Hi there. Welcome to Movie Forums.

So, fair warning: we got a lot of homework requests like this, and most of the people here aren't nuts about them. If you want to mitigate that, and increase your chances of getting meaningful responses, it helps a lot to actually start and shepherd a discussion along. If you just post the question and ask people to answer it, people don't respond as well to that, since it feels like you're just the middleman for the work.



Hi, I am an A2 film studies student needing opinions on the Vietnam war. Underneath is the question i am analysing and answering:

How did the Vietnam War change the narratives and conventions in US War movies?

Any of your knowledgeable opinions and points would be kindly taken on board

Many thanks Cini
Really you need help with this?

I think the big difference between pre and post Vietnam War was the focus of the film. Before Vietnam war movies tended to be more epic, they were more about being visually stunning. But after the Vietnam War the focus moved away from the "war" part of war movies and more towards the soldiers and the psychology of said soldiers.

Coming Home was more about the soldiers and PTSD and the different ways it manifested intself.

The Great Santini was more about the aging soldier, coming to grips with your mortality.

The Deer Hunter was about the effect the war had on a collective of friends.

Apocalypse Now was really about the soldier in country, though really it's more a Heart of Darkness adaptation.

First Blood the ordeal of the lost soldier and discarded ma

Then about 10 years after the War ended you started to see more darker War movies

Full Metal Jacket and Platoon were really the definitive Vietnam War movies

And finally you had a number of dark science fiction movies that came out that while not being strictly about Vietnam they did cover the cynicism of the era and lack of trust in the authority. (West World, Planet of the Apes, Soylent Green, The Omega Man, Paralax View, Three Days in the Condor)



...I think the big difference between pre and post Vietnam War was the focus of the film. Before Vietnam war movies tended to be more epic, they were more about being visually stunning. But after the Vietnam War the focus moved away from the "war" part of war movies and more towards the soldiers and the psychology of said soldiers...
Siddon: I can see where you are coming from, but I don't agree. One shouldn't conflate the effect of the end of the Production Code (in 1968, although it had been withering for a decade) and the effect of the war itself.

Cinimod: I am not going to do your homework for you, but I will bring to your attention two movies which you might want to consider. In my opinion, The Sand Pebbles (1966) is by far the most impressive Vietnam War movie, even if it isn't explicitly about the war. However, if you saw it back in the day, it clearly was all about the war.

You should also take a look at Go Tell the Spartans (1978) -- a small budget gem.



Hi there. Welcome to Movie Forums.

So, fair warning: we got a lot of homework requests like this, and most of the people here aren't nuts about them. If you want to mitigate that, and increase your chances of getting meaningful responses, it helps a lot to actually start and shepherd a discussion along. If you just post the question and ask people to answer it, people don't respond as well to that, since it feels like you're just the middleman for the work.

Thanks for the warning Yoda. It is less homework and more coursework, i am looking for opinions on the matter. However i can understand why people don't like these.



Really you need help with this?

I think the big difference between pre and post Vietnam War was the focus of the film. Before Vietnam war movies tended to be more epic, they were more about being visually stunning. But after the Vietnam War the focus moved away from the "war" part of war movies and more towards the soldiers and the psychology of said soldiers.

Coming Home was more about the soldiers and PTSD and the different ways it manifested intself.

The Great Santini was more about the aging soldier, coming to grips with your mortality.

The Deer Hunter was about the effect the war had on a collective of friends.

Apocalypse Now was really about the soldier in country, though really it's more a Heart of Darkness adaptation.

First Blood the ordeal of the lost soldier and discarded ma

Then about 10 years after the War ended you started to see more darker War movies

Full Metal Jacket and Platoon were really the definitive Vietnam War movies

And finally you had a number of dark science fiction movies that came out that while not being strictly about Vietnam they did cover the cynicism of the era and lack of trust in the authority. (West World, Planet of the Apes, Soylent Green, The Omega Man, Paralax View, Three Days in the Condor)
Hi Siddon, I get where you are coming from, I have been writing about how the Vietnam War changes peoples perspectives, I have been searching about and have struggled to find if there was any historical events that actually changed the film industry from glorifying to a more realistic portrayal of war. And i know what the changes were but trying to go deeper, why did they occur? Other than around 1.3 million deaths, yet WW2 saw around 50 million deaths, and why wasn't there significant change pre and post to WW2.



Part of it was they couldn't because of the
Hays code "Willful offense to any nation, race or creed"

Part of it was Hollywood was a place for exiled jews (Billy Wilder, Fred Zinnenman, Richard Siodmark)

and part of it was financing, studios needed access to Government equipment for their War films, if you wanted to use a Battleship or Airplane you needed the Army to sign off on the script.



There are 4 periods:

1900s-1950s: War is glorious and epic; America is the good guy and foes are evil
1950s-1970s: War is glorious and epic; America is the good guy and enemies may or may not have the right to fight
1970s-2000s: War is tragic and somber; American soldiers are good or lost, the blame is on the system
2000s-present: War is tragic and somber; America is the good guy and foes are evil

The changes in convention in the 70s were not due to the Vietnam war itself, much less to laws or the industry's self restrictions, but to the social changes within the country. Namely: the advent of tv, journalism, consumerism, contraception and economical wealth. Or in other words, the media age. For a couple of decades the population had more money that the market and its offer of products could ripe; today is the opposite.



Have you watched Ken Burns Vietnam documentary series at all? You might want to check that out. While its not directly about Vietnam war films per se it gives you, in excruciating detail, a perspective on why and how EVERYTHING changed with the Vietnam war, especially pop culture and the way a new generation expressed itself through art and music and in their overall perspective toward war itself.
__________________
Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies...



Part of it was they couldn't because of the
Hays code "Willful offense to any nation, race or creed"

Part of it was Hollywood was a place for exiled jews (Billy Wilder, Fred Zinnenman, Richard Siodmark)

and part of it was financing, studios needed access to Government equipment for their War films, if you wanted to use a Battleship or Airplane you needed the Army to sign off on the script.
That's is a really good point i hadn't considered the production and its effects. It might be worth me having a look at Hollywood's history also, as that clearly played a huge role.



There are 4 periods:

1900s-1950s: War is glorious and epic; America is the good guy and foes are evil
1950s-1970s: War is glorious and epic; America is the good guy and enemies may or may not have the right to fight
1970s-2000s: War is tragic and somber; American soldiers are good or lost, the blame is on the system
2000s-present: War is tragic and somber; America is the good guy and foes are evil

The changes in convention in the 70s were not due to the Vietnam war itself, much less to laws or the industry's self restrictions, but to the social changes within the country. Namely: the advent of tv, journalism, consumerism, contraception and economical wealth. Or in other words, the media age. For a couple of decades the population had more money that the market and its offer of products could ripe; today is the opposite.
So would you say that it is less to do with wars and more heavily based around the laws and regulations surrounding? I realise there is the Hays code, however that was lifted in 1945... What were the other regulations and legislation?



The Hays Code was still in place until the late 60s. 1945 is when Will Hays stepped down as president from the MPPDA.



So would you say that it is less to do with wars and more heavily based around the laws and regulations surrounding?
No, I actually said:

The changes in convention in the 70s were not due to the Vietnam war itself, much less to laws or the industry's self restrictions.
I wrote it because somebody else said:

Part of it was they couldn't because of the
Hays code "Willful offense to any nation, race or creed"
Laws never create a situation, they just codify it. The Hays code never forced movies before 1970 to portray war as glorious, it was the general mindset and common sense of the time who forced them. Then mentalities changed and so did movies.

I realise there is the Hays code, however that was lifted in 1945...
The code was phased out through the 60s

What were the other regulations and legislation?
There were no other important regulations. By "self restrictions" I meant the commercial policies of studios, budget limitations of indie projects, the MPAA ratings, etc.