Sex scenes (not “chaste”)

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One thing about a lot of sex scenes in movies I have noticed is that the two people will always orgasm simultaneously for some reason, but has there ever been a sex scene in a movie where both parties have orgasms but not simultaneously?
Obviously. Let’s leave these questions to Google, please. This thread is sprawling enough.



Movie Forums Squirrel Jumper
Oh sorry. I didn't think google covered a lot of the discussion here.



But when it comes to porn you can find on the internet it's almost always amateur and very poorly put together compared to what a big budget movie can to do. Isn't that like saying why bother to watch a movie like Mad Max: Fury Road, when people can just watch any car chase captured by the news?
Car chases are full of FX, noise and fun, not much controversy. Sex is fun, risky and very controversial, especially when done in public, such as in a movie. That's the thing about it. I suspect that considerations of aesthetics are just a cover for economics. We have to face something that nobody seems to mention, but that seems, at least to be true, which is that men want to see it more than women do. Men, on the other hand don't want someone to see THEM in flagrante delicto, so the question becomes whether to digitize it, hire a professional or just what, as long as it's not ME. Since the female part of the audience would probably rather have it implied and the men don't want to play the role, it's going to come to subtle portrayals.

It's really been a long time since I actually saw the offending parts of anatomy in anything more that a brief flash and since I see lots of movies, I'm assuming that you're going to have to seek it out. I'm not anybody's idea of a prude (although I don't want to be shot that way either) but it's pretty rare that I see a movie and think, that would be better with more _____.



Movie Forums Squirrel Jumper
Car chases are full of FX, noise and fun, not much controversy. Sex is fun, risky and very controversial, especially when done in public, such as in a movie. That's the thing about it. I suspect that considerations of aesthetics are just a cover for economics. We have to face something that nobody seems to mention, but that seems, at least to be true, which is that men want to see it more than women do. Men, on the other hand don't want someone to see THEM in flagrante delicto, so the question becomes whether to digitize it, hire a professional or just what, as long as it's not ME. Since the female part of the audience would probably rather have it implied and the men don't want to play the role, it's going to come to subtle portrayals.

It's really been a long time since I actually saw the offending parts of anatomy in anything more that a brief flash and since I see lots of movies, I'm assuming that you're going to have to seek it out. I'm not anybody's idea of a prude (although I don't want to be shot that way either) but it's pretty rare that I see a movie and think, that would be better with more _____.
Oh okay. Well I always find the acting in amateur porn to be really bad, and the filmmaking to be really poorly edited with poor camera work. So I thought people would prefer sex scenes in real motion pictures, because at least those ones have good acting, and good editing, and camera work, and therefore there would still be a want for that in movies, rather than turning to poorly made amateur porn.



Oh okay. Well I always find the acting in amateur porn to be really bad, and the filmmaking to be really poorly edited with poor camera work. So I thought people would prefer sex scenes in real motion pictures, because at least those ones have good acting, and good editing, and camera work, and therefore there would still be a want for that in movies, rather than turning to poorly made amateur porn.
The marketers who provide the money seem to think not, and, of course, there's the movie rating system. The marketing people seem to really avoid NC 17 and some of those old 80's movies that we recall, would probably be that, regardless of the quality of staging, cinematography or composition. If it were my millions going into a movie, I'd need a lot of convincing as to who in the market will make up for the revenue lost from viewers who will NOT go because of the content. The NOTs are the deciding factor here since the kids are ruled out by the content rating and you have to make up for that plus the adults put off purely by the content. Because more explicit stuff is generally not really needed for plot exposition, I, as an investor but not as a puritan, would probably invest in something else.



Movie Forums Squirrel Jumper
The marketers who provide the money seem to think not, and, of course, there's the movie rating system. The marketing people seem to really avoid NC 17 and some of those old 80's movies that we recall, would probably be that, regardless of the quality of staging, cinematography or composition. If it were my millions going into a movie, I'd need a lot of convincing as to who in the market will make up for the revenue lost from viewers who will NOT go because of the content. The NOTs are the deciding factor here since the kids are ruled out by the content rating and you have to make up for that plus the adults put off purely by the content. Because more explicit stuff is generally not really needed for plot exposition, I, as an investor but not as a puritan, would probably invest in something else.
I can see why marketing people might not want to cator to the audience that wants to see a sex scene, but why is it that people choose to watch amateur porn, to get their rocks off, when they can watch more competently shot and acted movie scenes instead?

Also, I didn't think people really cared about the NC-17 rating anymore compared to before. I recommended the movie Killer Joe to my friends for example, which is NC-17, and they still watched the movie anyway, and the rating did not deter them from it.



why is it that people choose to watch amateur porn, to get their rocks off, when they can watch more competently shot and acted movie scenes instead?

Well, the problem with intellectual, cerebral, artful depictions of intercourse presented for getting rocks off is that you have the problem of the blood in the body running in the wrong direction. On the other hand, if the scene is not just presented for, shall we say, gratification, then it is easier to elevate such scenes.



I remember an pornographer being interviewed once. He was asked what his method was. He said, "I imagine the most disgusting act imaginable, and then try to put that on screen." Porn is fast food. Turns out most people just want a triple bacon cheeseburger.



I can see why marketing people might not want to cator to the audience that wants to see a sex scene, but why is it that people choose to watch amateur porn, to get their rocks off, when they can watch more competently shot and acted movie scenes instead?

Also, I didn't think people really cared about the NC-17 rating anymore compared to before. I recommended the movie Killer Joe to my friends for example, which is NC-17, and they still watched the movie anyway, and the rating did not deter them from it.
“Cater”. Sorry. I know I’m a bitch…



Movie Forums Squirrel Jumper
Well, the problem with intellectual, cerebral, artful depictions of intercourse presented for getting rocks off is that you have the problem of the blood in the body running in the wrong direction. On the other hand, if the scene is not just presented for, shall we say, gratification, then it is easier to elevate such scenes.



I remember an pornographer being interviewed once. He was asked what his method was. He said, "I imagine the most disgusting act imaginable, and then try to put that on screen." Porn is fast food. Turns out most people just want a triple bacon cheeseburger.
Oh okay, what do you mean by the blood running in the wrong direction? You mean the blood is running towards the brain instead?

Also, why wouldn't guys want the fancy gourmet feast, as opposed to fast food? What makes fast food more appealing than a classy gourmet feast?



Oh okay, what do you mean by the blood running in the wrong direction? You mean the blood is running towards the brain instead?


Yes. Alan Moore, for example, commented on this as a writing problem for his ambitious (and controversial) fairy tale porn project.



Also, why wouldn't guys want the fancy gourmet feast, as opposed to fast food? What makes fast food more appealing than a classy gourmet feast?

I don't know what makes it more appealing or that it "should be so", but we can empirically prove that it is. As pornography has evolved the story has been stripped away more and more. And the most popular genres and tropes of porn do not bespeak the desire for classy gourmet feasts. "Bent over woman gets head trapped in furniture or a major appliance" is not exactly a Shakespearean premise. Just go to a porn site and look at the tags for the most "searched terms." The overwhelming majority of people looking to get off are just looking to get off.



At any rate, I am not saying that there's not a place for what you want or that you shouldn't want it, but rather that there is a natural separation that occurs that makes what you want a rare thing.



I can see why marketing people might not want to cator to the audience that wants to see a sex scene, but why is it that people choose to watch amateur porn, to get their rocks off, when they can watch more competently shot and acted movie scenes instead?

Also, I didn't think people really cared about the NC-17 rating anymore compared to before. I recommended the movie Killer Joe to my friends for example, which is NC-17, and they still watched the movie anyway, and the rating did not deter them from it.
Real, actual porn is a special market, but it's clearly intended for people that want exactly that and not a several minute interlude in a 2 hour movie where they have to put up with the rest of the film having plot and acting instead of "action". Nobody mistakes that for a mainstream movie.

Most people probably don't think about NC 17 because there really aren't many of them, especially in mainstream movies that show in the shopping mall cineplex.



We have to face something that nobody seems to mention, but that seems, at least to be true, which is that men want to see it more than women do. Men, on the other hand don't want someone to see THEM in flagrante delicto, so the question becomes whether to digitize it, hire a professional or just what, as long as it's not ME. Since the female part of the audience would probably rather have it implied and the men don't want to play the role, it's going to come to subtle portrayals.
A brave one, that. I think on balance, you are right, and that alone looks like a good enough reason to me to have more naked women than men. Though why as even this thread has shown would most women apparently not want to see any action is beyond me.



On a separate note and in light of the discussion of porn above, I find it frankly hilarious/surreal Brazil-style that we even have an NC-17 rating when the majority of 9-year-olds watch/have seen violent porn with choking. Not to mention that access to extreme porn in “other markets” that seem to be such a huge concern, especially in Japan & South Korea with the ubiquitous spy cams, is more or less unrestricted.



On a separate note and in light of the discussion of porn above, I find it frankly hilarious/surreal Brazil-style that we even have an NC-17 rating when the majority of 9-year-olds watch/have seen violent porn with choking. Not to mention that access to extreme porn in “other markets” that seem to be such a huge concern, especially in Japan & South Korea with the ubiquitous spy cams, is more or less unrestricted.
I can't help but think that a lot of this comes down to investment strategy and marketing position. Film makers make no movies without getting lots of money from someone who is, after all, making a gamble. A lot of movies lose money. The person who puts up a few million may enjoy the art, but really also wants to make some money on a large investment. It's been a long time since a full-length, expensive production that had believable sex made any money. Some time after it was made, I recall seeing Caligula. As an amateur historian, I was disappointed in the portrayal of that demented Roman emperor. Had I been a porn fan, I would have been aggravated at how long it took to get to the "action". Nevertheless, it was banned in many places, age-restricted in most places and only was shown in "Art Houses" with liberal criteria for Art. There were a couple different versions, varying in on the hard core scenes, but the entire production was mired on controversy.

In this case, the content made explicit sex seem appropriate, but still, the same problems came up as would arise with plain porn. Some years after its release, I ran across a VHS copy in a yard sale and it was the hard-core version.

I guess this movie contained a lesson, though not necessarily in Roman politics.



I can't help but think that a lot of this comes down to investment strategy and marketing position. Film makers make no movies without getting lots of money from someone who is, after all, making a gamble. A lot of movies lose money. The person who puts up a few million may enjoy the art, but really also wants to make some money on a large investment. It's been a long time since a full-length, expensive production that had believable sex made any money. Some time after it was made, I recall seeing Caligula. As an amateur historian, I was disappointed in the portrayal of that demented Roman emperor. Had I been a porn fan, I would have been aggravated at how long it took to get to the "action". Nevertheless, it was banned in many places, age-restricted in most places and only was shown in "Art Houses" with liberal criteria for Art. There were a couple different versions, varying in on the hard core scenes, but the entire production was mired on controversy.

In this case, the content made explicit sex seem appropriate, but still, the same problems came up as would arise with plain porn. Some years after its release, I ran across a VHS copy in a yard sale and it was the hard-core version.

I guess this movie contained a lesson, though not necessarily in Roman politics.
Yeah, you’re right of course. I really hate Caligula, but that’s very much due to personal experience and likely not objective. My take on it (which I’m in no way defending as objective/analytical) is that Tinto Brass et al secretly wanted to make porn and that is what they made, regardless of how much care was taken and money spent and McDowell and Mirren and CO’s undeniable talents. But I know I’m probably overreacting. Like you, I was disappointed on every level.

In terms of “believable” sex, I am weary of making this thread go around in circles because I know how exhausting that is, but to my mind there’s no intrinsic value in sex in films being “believable” other than very dubious ideas of “boundary pushing”, “shattering stereotypes” and such very much ideologically driven motivations.



I bathe in a modest, head-to-toe flannel onesie, like God intended!
I will pray for you on Sunday & petition the Dear Lord to permit you to remove your onesie.

This reminds me of the time I was intimate with my ex:

Her: Pull my hair…
Me: I’m, ok…*proceeds to pull her hair*
Her: no, harder! Yank it back!
Me: *hesitating* ok…
Her: Harder!
Me: alright *pulls back*
Her: TOO HARD!
Me: I’m sorry!
Her: it’s fine….now slap me….
Glad she’s an “ex”. She sounds weird.

One thing about a lot of sex scenes in movies I have noticed is that the two people will always orgasm simultaneously for some reason, but has there ever been a sex scene in a movie where both parties have orgasms but not simultaneously?
The man usually goes first & if he’s patient he will wait for her or finish her off when he’s done. Most movies seem to skip this part as it appears that so long as the man orgasms the scene is a wrap.

It's really been a long time since I actually saw the offending parts of anatomy anything more that a brief flash and since I see lots of movies, I'm assuming that you're going to have to seek it out. I'm not anybody's idea of a prude (although I don't want to be shot that way either) but it's pretty rare that I see a movie and think, that would be better with more _____.
Interesting choice of words.
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