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I don't think eliminating the virus 100% is a realistic expectation.

Once in a while we still see cases or even flare ups of viruses / diseases thought eliminated long ago and for which vaccines have made a thing of the past.

Some projections predict Covid-19 may be with us for the long haul in some form, even if the vast majority are vaccinated (and we've already seen more recently that even vaccinated people can still contract it, spread it, manifest it and in rare cases even die from it).

So it's likely Covid-19 will be with us for the foreseeable future, but hopefully in a less virulent form due to the combination of vaccines & natural herd immunity, and hopefully it will eventually sputter out like the "Spanish Flu" (- which itself never fully "went away," rather it mutated into other viruses, some of which became indistinguishable from the common flu and others which ended up causing other pandemics many decades later).
https://www.history.com/news/1918-fl...ic-never-ended

A more realistic goal is to reduce cases to a point where Covid drops below typical flu numbers - and the common flu itself is nothing to sneeze at: taking between 60 to 80 thousand lives in the U.S. each year (yet we've never closed school's nationwide for the flu despite the flu being far more dangerous to children than Covid-19, or had economic shutdowns, business lockdowns, mask mandates, vaccine mandates, politically-based banning of potential treatments, or changed election practices over even the most severe flu outbreaks).



@Captain Steel I repped your last covid post, not because I'm anti-vax, I'm not...but because I appreciate the way you calmly and intelligently explained your position and made logical points while keeping it friendly too. Good post, even though I'm mostly on the other side of the fence.
Agreed & I repped his post too though Iím not saying anything else on the subject.
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Regarding governmental covid-vaccine mandates and health care workers...

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't health workers (hospital staff, medics, health care providers) always been required to be vaccinated for communicable diseases?



Regarding governmental covid-vaccine mandates and health care workers...

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't health workers (hospital staff, medics, health care providers) always been required to be vaccinated for communicable diseases?
One would think so, but havenít a clue. Good question.



Regarding governmental covid-vaccine mandates and health care workers...

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't health workers (hospital staff, medics, health care providers) always been required to be vaccinated for communicable diseases?
It's certainly true that children have to have certain vaccines in order to attend public school.

Co-worker said to me "It's wrong to tell anyone what they have to put in their body." I said, "But they all have to have all of these other vaccines to come to school. Do you think they shouldn't have to have those vaccines either?". She said "Well that's different."

So it really comes down to people not wanting it because it's new.

But then that gets into a gray area of how long a vaccine is out before it's okay to make it mandatory. 3 years? 5? 10? 15?



...So it really comes down to people not wanting it because it's new.

But then that gets into a gray area of how long a vaccine is out before it's okay to make it mandatory. 3 years? 5? 10? 15?
I'm sure there are those against covid vaccinations because it's a new vaccine and they are cautious.

But I got believe a lot of the more vocal anti-vaxxers see it as a case of 'the government ain't telling me what to do!'...And sadly that's thanks to politicization by political party x, that says political party y is trying to control you and take away your freedoms. It just boggles the mind the amount of misinformation people will choose to believe.



I'm sure there are those against covid vaccinations because it's a new vaccine and they are cautious.

But I got believe a lot of the more vocal anti-vaxxers see it as a case of 'the government ain't telling me what to do!'...And sadly that's thanks to politicization by political party x, that says political party y is trying to control you and take away your freedoms. It just boggles the mind the amount of misinformation people will choose to believe.
I think a lot of delusions are comforting in a way...it may seem that it's absurd for people to want to believe in these anti-gov conspiracy theories, but when i was younger i was a 9/11 truther, part of the believing was taking pleasure in some sort of "dangerous" or "rebellious" position against the government. Also, giving conspiracy theorists the benefit of the doubt...so much stuff comes from a television anyways, how can you disprove things?
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I'm sure there are those against covid vaccinations because it's a new vaccine and they are cautious.

But I got believe a lot of the more vocal anti-vaxxers see it as a case of 'the government ain't telling me what to do!'...And sadly that's thanks to politicization by political party x, that says political party y is trying to control you and take away your freedoms. It just boggles the mind the amount of misinformation people will choose to believe.
I think that the COVID vaccine exists at a (horrible) perfect storm of three different groups:

Group A: Vaccines cause autism/other health issues
Group B: The government can't tell me what to do!!
Group C: If the opposing political party wants me to do it, no way!

I have a massage client who is convinced that his son has autism because of vaccines. And yet he (the client) is, in my opinion, also on the autistic spectrum, and also he had his son at a much older age, and paternal age is correlated with higher incidence of autism. When he talks about his family, there is a really clear pattern of mental health issues and developmental delays. We're talking multiple family members across many generations.

I think that people believe what they want to believe. I know that I have to fight my own confirmation bias, and it's not always comfortable to do so. And if you're in enough of an echo chamber, some really out there ideas might just feel like "common sense".



The only thing I believe in are cryptids. I support their right to choice of vaccination status.



The only thing I believe in are cryptids. I support their right to choice of vaccination status.
The "Nessie Says No" campaign is really taking social media by storm.



A 3in1 post and then I have to get back to work, really I should
I think a lot of delusions are comforting in a way...
Absolutely. And IMO the more benign ones are fine. But the ones that increase mistrust and paranoia in society, that ain't good.

..I think that people believe what they want to believe...
The power of self delusion is scary. Just think, at one time people so believed in witch conspiracies that they burnt innocent people in fire. What was the saying about 'monsters from the id'?

The only thing I believe in are cryptids. I support their right to choice of vaccination status.
Now that's something I'm interested in. Maybe a thread for that?



But then that gets into a gray area of how long a vaccine is out before it's okay to make it mandatory. 3 years? 5? 10? 15?
What did they do back in the day with polio shots? Surely they didnít wait a year or so to make it mandatory? From stories I hear parents were so very glad & relieved to have their children innoculated against polio.

Maybe iron lungs & leg braces were sufficient incentives back then, but surely seeing COVID babies intubated in the ICU would make an anti-vaxxer reconsider his or her stance?



What did they do back in the day with polio shots? Surely they didnít wait a year or so to make it mandatory? From stories I hear parents were so very glad & relieved to have their children innoculated against polio.

Maybe iron lungs & leg braces were sufficient incentives back then, but surely seeing COVID babies intubated in the ICU would make an anti-vaxxer reconsider his or her stance?
I asked my parents about this, and what they said was that the damage from polio was so much more visible that it really did away with a lot of hesitancy. You were seeing limps, legs in braces, and even people in iron lungs.

I think that the lingering effects of COVID (setting aside the deaths) are less "visible". It's people with a sort of chronic fatigue. It's people who still look healthy, but there are indications of heart damage.



I remember getting the polio vaccine in grade school, at least I hope this is accurate....it was a vaccine on a sugar cube that was placed on your tongue. Unless it was some other vaccine, kind of hard to remember but I do remember it was a big deal and done right in the classroom.



I asked my parents about this, and what they said was that the damage from polio was so much more visible that it really did away with a lot of hesitancy. You were seeing limps, legs in braces, and even people in iron lungs.

I think that the lingering effects of COVID (setting aside the deaths) are less "visible". It's people with a sort of chronic fatigue. It's people who still look healthy, but there are indications of heart damage.
Very good points. Didnít think of the visibility issue before. Who the heck would want their kid in an iron lung.

I remember getting the polio vaccine in grade school, at least I hope this is accurate....it was a vaccine on a sugar cube that was placed on your tongue. Unless it was some other vaccine, kind of hard to remember but I do remember it was a big deal and done right in the classroom.
Donít remember this in England, but who the heck can remember these things.

Seems to me - somewhere - I have remains of a circular vaccination site. What was this do you think?



Very good points. Didnít think of the visibility issue before. Who the heck would want their kid in an iron lung.



Donít remember this in England, but who the heck can remember these things.

Seems to me - somewhere - I have remains of a circular vaccination site. What was this do you think?
I asked my wife about when she got the polio vaccine and she mentioned it was a multi needle unit that was used. Maybe the sugar cube I got in school was a booster? or maybe for something else? It was a long time ago!



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Seems to me - somewhere - I have remains of a circular vaccination site. What was this do you think?
We have those round vaccination scars on our upper arms here (those of us in my age group). It was a sort of air gun that shot it into us, no actual needles that I can recall. I think we were around sixth grade (age 11-ish), so early 1970s. We all headed to the gymnasium by classroom to get the vaccine.

It was the smallpox vaccine.



Donít remember this in England, but who the heck can remember these things.

Seems to me - somewhere - I have remains of a circular vaccination site. What was this do you think?
Could it have been a smallpox vaccine?

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/n...honor-20210630



It's certainly true that children have to have certain vaccines in order to attend public school.

Co-worker said to me "It's wrong to tell anyone what they have to put in their body." I said, "But they all have to have all of these other vaccines to come to school. Do you think they shouldn't have to have those vaccines either?". She said "Well that's different."

So it really comes down to people not wanting it because it's new.

But then that gets into a gray area of how long a vaccine is out before it's okay to make it mandatory. 3 years? 5? 10? 15?
The difference is that vaccines kids get today have been around for decades.

Entire generations have grown old and died (of old age) who got those vaccines. So the understanding of their long term effects, side effects, potential allergic reactions and who can tolerate them is well established.

Covid-19 vaccines are literally still experimental. They broke records being developed (which I applaud) yet we still have no idea about long term effects or even short term effects.

The unprecedented speed with which they were developed & the fact that they've only been used less than a year adds to some people's hesitancy about them.

(And for some, the sudden turn around of some of our current leaders - the same exact ones who publicly declared they did NOT trust the vaccines due particularly to the speed with which they were developed - are now threatening people's jobs & careers if they DON'T take them REALLY adds to peoples' skepticism. Nothing breeds distrust more than hypocrisy compounded by sudden authoritarianism.)

Doctors are still not sure about the efficacy (as we've seen that some of their initial predictions were wrong) which makes people question their assurances about the full extent of the vaccines' safety.