2021 Halloween Challenge

And do they also think Robert Young made the best Hammer movie? Because I've got to know the credentials of these people I've never met before if they are going to have any chance of changing my mind about Vampire Circus.


Now, don't get me wrong. You like dwarves and sexy times and David Prowse in a loin cloth. And who doesn't. But Young just doesn't have the right touch for me. Just because there is a lot of stuff happening on screen, doesn't mean he knows how to elevate it. It neither posseses the magisterial gothic touches of Fischer, or even the dreary and dreamy kinkiness of a Rollins. It feels neither frightening or scandalous. It is just a curious mix of a bunch of vampire and circus tropes. And while I have no problem giving it credit for being unique, the filmmaking is just too damp to win me over.

It's no Final Exam.

And I thought delegating Terrence Fischer movies to runner-up status was wacky.


This is the most baffling post so far.


Like, how have you not seen this?

That's fair. I was pretty snobby towards Hammer for many years as a youth, dismissing a lot of it as Universal retreads. That stodginess was one thing that kept me from embracing them for a while. Their films seemed more likely to take place in well-appointed drawing rooms than in graveyards or dungeons or what have you. There are very few Hammer films that aren't "good" at some level, I just sometimes wish they'd let loose a little bit more, like Corman's Poe films or Bava. There's exceptions of course, like Oliver Reed as a werewolf, but a lot of times they're more restrained than they need to be, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm a full-fledged fan now, but I understand this complaint.

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I still need to see their Werewolf movies.

Ha, see above post.
If I've seen Karloff's Frankenstein 30 times, I've probably seen Lee's less than 5, just because I was later to the Hammer party. So there's still a few I haven't gotten to yet.

And FTR I prefer Vampire Circus to Fischer's "The Mummy". So it's not like I don't realize Fischer can't be beaten by an also-ran. On the rare occasion.

What? It's easily my favorite Hammer. I love Hammer, Vampire Circus is my favorite one. What?

Whoa, I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm just defending the film.
They watch an ass-load of Horror, that's all I can tell you. Probably twice as much as any other genre. This month they liked Carnival Of Souls and Vampyr, calling both "gems" (same as they said about VC) but they also liked Malignant which you'd probably hate. Her favorite movie, probably, is The Wicker Man. His is actually Blade Runner but I'm not sure what his favorite Horror movie is.
I don't necessarily feel that the direction of VC is as good as Fischer's or Rollins' but comparing just that aspect of films we could say that Sunshine (which is crap) is better than Casablanca (which is not). But so many things in this movie are so up my alley and this movie with its blood and sex and child-murders and people turning into panthers and people getting lost in mirrors and ****, in addition to all the things I already named, it's just the outright winner for me. And like I said, it's not just my favorite Hammer it's probably one of my top 3 or certainly 5 Vampire movies, period. And there are a LOT of those.

I also really like Night Creatures. Sue me.

And I'm just teasing you about this line of defence, because of course other people like the movie. All sorts of people I don't know like all sorts of movies I don't.



It would be like me questioning your appreciation of the comedy classic Big Business starring Bette Midler. And in response to your obvious answer of "who the **** cares about that movie, it sucks", I tell you about my friend (who is funny) calling it one of his favorite comedies. As if it is an actual defence of this cinematic atrocity.


In short, I'm glad you like the film. And it's always nice when others agree, especially when its something you consider underseen. But as for its inclusion as a retort to my (mostly favorable) opinion of VC, I just found it a little bit amusing.


Either way, it's no biggy. I wasn't legitimately suggesting you were imposing a dictatorship over my mind by the friend talk.




Comparing two vampire based Hammer productions (by two very different directors) is not remotely similar to comparing a second rate science fiction movie and a top tier Hollywood classic. In fact, for better or worse, Vampire Circus and Horror of Dracula beg to be compared. And as someone who is predominantly interested in the expression of a director, and what ideas talent and emotion they bring to their film, of course I'm going to pick Horror of Dracula. It has the kind of cinematic vitality I respond to.



Now if you find the details in the story Vampire Circus more appealing, great. In a lot of ways, I probably do to. Which is why it is a disappointment to me when someone with such a leaden hand took the helm for this one. I think the material probably deserves better.

Looks like I'm watching Vampire Circus tonight

This is the correct opinion. No litigation necessary.

Well, you would feel that way, but I'm used to it and I've come to like you anyway. Mentioning that some friends also like it is not the defense of the movie. Although in some ways it inherently is. If someone tells me three fanatics of a certain genre who watch hundreds of movies in that genre think highly of a movie in that genre, then I'm at least going to rub my chin thoughtfully. I mean, otherwise what the hell am I even doing on this forum other than listening to myself talk?
But my point here is not to rely on expert opinion, even though it is the only form of "evidence" that applies to the quality of films. It is to evoke the notion that if there is anything objective that can say that Vampire Circus is a good or bad movie, then you simply may very well be (and are) wrong as much as I might be. But since there is not, I am evoking an alternative consensus to the one you share with a couple others here that it is merely OK and not clearly a joy. I assure you, my friends' opinions are as valuable as yours as far as I'm concerned and since my own opinion is obviously the best and they share it, they must be right.
And I'm not comparing the two films in your last part of the response, what I'm saying is that just because one may have, subjectively I might add, more behind-the-camera craft than another does not mean it is a better film overall (and that, in the case of my example, that the former is not crap and the other a classic). Better direction of one film does not inherently make it a better film, the case you seemed to be trying to make and reinforce in your response here. Since you've hedged that with "the kind of cinematic vitality I respond to", I'm willing to accept that your wrongness is merely personal taste.

Attaboy.

I am a predictable sort


Not me. Unless I know how someone thinks about films, it is a moot point what they are fanatical about. I actually have pretty shaky faith in the opinions of a lot of people who consider themselves horror fans. They frequently like very different things than I do.


And why wouldn't they be. I would humbly suggest they should be even more important.



Not always, but it is a pretty good barometer of how I will feel. And when I feel it is a fairly notable hindrance, as it is in this case, it's invariably going to really keep it back.


My one goal is to be wrong to everybody, but me. So chalk this up as another victory for crumbsroom!

You make a good point here as Amy, with whom I agreed wholeheartedly on all of the films we talked about here (Vampire Circus, The Wicker Man, Malignant, Carnival Of Souls, and Vampyr) and I just recently had an argument about her deep love of Midsommar (which I thought was pretty hit and miss and would have to be persuaded to watch again considering its length), preferring the new Suspiria to the old, and not liking Deep Red or Society. They are also much kinder to contemporary Horror than I am. But still, I respect their opinions. As I do most of the people here. Which is why I'm here.

Same.

It's what convinced my non-horror Sunday Horror Movie Club friend to actually watch films with me each week.

That's awesome. Cheers.

Also, having already used my One-word Title category with Malignant, what category fits Lemora: A Child's Tale Of The Supernatural?