MoFo Fantasy Football 2009: Week 8

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"Money won is twice as sweet as money earned."



She definitely puts Erin Andrews to shame.
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We are both the source of the problem and the solution, yet we do not see ourselves in this light...



"The case I'm making is this: he behaved selfishly, and he behaved in a way that hurt the Packers for no good reason."

THEY WERENT HURT! Thats the point Im making! They were upset he went on to play elsewhere! Thats believable, but not mature. Sure that shows great fan fervency, but cmon this is the NATIOBNAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE baby its big business. They got a great QB in Rodgers and Favres getting along fine too.

"You believe he simply wanted to play for another team; that's a reasonable theory, and a reasonable thing to want, perhaps. But if that's the case, then that means he pretended to retire knowing full well he didn't want to, and knowing full well it was going to make life difficult for the Packers. That's even worse! If your theory is correct, then it means he wasn't just indecisive and inconsiderate, but practically sabotaging things, rather than being upfront about his desires."

THEY WERENT HURT! Salary cap issues?! With who?! They had nobody they were paying big dividends too nor will they in the forseeable future the way theyre looking lately. After their Super Bowl win and return the year after they seemed to give up on getting Reggie Whites or a real RBs cause Ryan Grant is a mediocre RB. Brett Favre sabotaging the Green Bay Packers?! No Id say leaving an organization that wouldnt let him go until he made them, and thats if he wanted to leave them in the first place. I could be wrong and the worst he was is wishy washy.

I saw on ESPN some old couple in Green Bay. The old guy had a tracheotomy from throat cancer. When in the hospital dying Favre came to them, and after the guys surgery he was in a photo when he was at their home for dinner. When he left Green Bay for New York they took the photo off the wall. ESPN asked the old guy why, and he said thru his voice box "Cause he was a traitor!" AUUUUGH! That just killed me! He did not betray Green Bay! He wanted to win a Super Bowl or was wishy washy but a traitor?! fugedaboudit



Favre doesn't seem like the type of quarterback that would coach and help the new rookie quarterback who is supposedly going to replace him.

He has also been a pretty big jerk to the organization this year, which is a reason to dislike him. And when I say dislike, I mean as a part of the Viking organization. Brett Favre said, "This is the best team I've ever played for." YEAH, PACKER FANS SHOULD JUST GET OVER IT AND JUST BE A-OK WITH THIS COMMENT.

Okay, say what you want, but as a Packer fan I can't help but feel betrayed. There are 32 teams in the NFL, he went to the Vikings and has been disrespectful to the organization that he played for for 16 years.



I'm just not a fan. Sorry. She's about as overrated as they come. That whole made up home video thing never sat well with me either. And yes I said made up, I don't believe for a second that she was, "violated".

Have I mentioned that I'm a bit of a cynic?




I saw on ESPN some old couple in Green Bay. The old guy had a tracheotomy from throat cancer. When in the hospital dying Favre came to them, and after the guys surgery he was in a photo when he was at their home for dinner. When he left Green Bay for New York they took the photo off the wall. ESPN asked the old guy why, and he said thru his voice box "Cause he was a traitor!" AUUUUGH! That just killed me! He did not betray Green Bay! He wanted to win a Super Bowl or was wishy washy but a traitor?! fugedaboudit
That's a fan T, You really have no idea do you?



THEY WERENT HURT! Thats the point Im making! They were upset he went on to play elsewhere! Thats believable, but not mature. Sure that shows great fan fervency, but cmon this is the NATIOBNAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE baby its big business. They got a great QB in Rodgers and Favres getting along fine too.
You're kinda trying to have it both ways here, though. When talking about Favre as a person, it's all about how he just wants to win, loves the game, yadda yadda yadda. But when the Packers or their fans bring any emotion into it, it's "hey, it's a business." The fact is, if this was a pure business decision, that's fine, but Favre sure isn't admitting it. The NFL is team-oriented. Players that don't put the team first get cut, benched, whatever. It's very big on the team-first ideal. Maybe Favre did approach this from a business-only perspective, but if so, it contradicts all the things he always says about helping the team and just trying to win football games.

As for "not mature." Being upset with your franchise player for jerking you around is plenty mature. Being threatened by your backup, snubbing him, then retiring and immediately changing your mind? Not so mature.

THEY WERENT HURT! Salary cap issues?! With who?! They had nobody they were paying big dividends too nor will they in the forseeable future the way theyre looking lately. After their Super Bowl win and return the year after they seemed to give up on getting Reggie Whites or a real RBs cause Ryan Grant is a mediocre RB. Brett Favre sabotaging the Green Bay Packers?! No Id say leaving an organization that wouldnt let him go until he made them, and thats if he wanted to leave them in the first place. I could be wrong and the worst he was is wishy washy.
Eek, tons of things wrong with this paragraph. I'll just run through them quickly:

1) NFL salary cap numbers are extremely complicated and lots of teams have to finagle things to get under, and not just because of superstars. Take a look at some NFL salaries sometimes; you'll be amazed how many guys you've never heard of make more than $1 million a year.

Not knowing whether or not you have to pay a star QB over the next few years -- AND having to pay a 1st-round QB while waiting for the guy to make up his mind -- limits your options. You don't think not knowing whether or not Favre's retiring or playing three more years (and getting paid a ton for it) has any influence on your free agent signings, or contract extension talks?

2) I have no idea how you're concluding that they "seemed to give up" on anything. Really, how does that make sense? You think the thousands of people who make up the Green Bay Packers, whose jobs and livelihood hinge on the team, and some of whom would be fired if they performed badly...they all stopped trying to get great players? Why on earth would they do that? It makes absolutely no sense.

3) They didn't stop trying to get RBs. They had Ahman Green, who topped 1,000 yards rushing for FIVE straight years, including a ridiculous 1,883 in 2003.

4) How have you concluded that they "won't let him go until they he made them," exactly? Why would they spend a #1 draft pick on a QB if they were totally unwilling to let him go?

5) No, at best he is wishy-washy. That's my point. If you're correct, and he actually wanted out, then it's incredibly dishonest to pretend he just wanted to retire, let the Pack go ahead with other plans, and then try to jump back in. If he wanted to play elsewhere, he should have just said so. So the best thing you can say about his behavior is that it was indecisive. The worst is that it was deliberately misleading.

I saw on ESPN some old couple in Green Bay. The old guy had a tracheotomy from throat cancer. When in the hospital dying Favre came to them, and after the guys surgery he was in a photo when he was at their home for dinner. When he left Green Bay for New York they took the photo off the wall. ESPN asked the old guy why, and he said thru his voice box "Cause he was a traitor!" AUUUUGH! That just killed me! He did not betray Green Bay! He wanted to win a Super Bowl or was wishy washy but a traitor?! fugedaboudit
He did win a Super Bowl with them. And then he went to the Super Bowl again. And the team he retired from? They were 13-3.


Here are their records AFTER going to back-to-back Super Bowls:
  • 11-5
  • 8-8
  • 9-7
  • 12-4
  • 12-4
  • 10-6
  • 10-6
  • 4-12
  • 8-8
  • 13-3
That's seven winning seasons in ten years, and two that were just short at 8-8. That's six out of ten where they had at least ten wins, three of them where they won at least 12. They had one losing season in a DECADE after going to consecutive Supre Bowls (probably because Favre was terrible that year). That's insanely good. The idea that Favre had to leave because the Packers weren't being competitive is nowhere near the truth.



Oh well! If they, you, or anyone wishes to look at his departure from Green Bay as some awful backstabbing wretched act go for it. It wasnt, and he holds probaly nothing but love for the city, and fans. There were fans at Lambeau dressed in the green and gold cheering for Brett when he came out. They were in the minority, but are those Packer fans any less than the Booers? Nope. They forgave him if he needed it at all.

If Brett Favre said the Minnesotta Vikings are the best team hes ever played for then Green Bay needs to get it together. Aaron Rodgers is the goods, but he was looking like the Running Man out there sunday, and Jarred Allen was Leatherface. Their troubles never were, are, or ever could be on Brett Favre. They need to turn the page, and I hope theyd be glad if he did win a super bowl. Just seems petty is all.



Why would I be happy if the Minnesota Vikings won a Super Bowl?

Don't you have any sense of hatred or rivalry when thinking about football teams?

And please don't turn this discussion into a Brett Favre-Aaron Rodgers team comparison. As a team, the Packers aren't as good as the Vikings yet. But, I only think the Packers will get better as will Aaron Rodgers. Just think of the atmosphere of the game on Sunday, that he is already playing in.

Improvement should be the word you are looking for.



I didn't call Favre leaving an "awful backstabbing wretched act," but he didn't behave well. He behaved in a fairly selfish manner, from what information I can see. And even your defense of him, if true, would mean all his talk about team play and trying to win is bunk. There's simply no combination of reasons or motivations in which he comes out of this looking like the Person of the Year you seem to want to think he is.

And sure, some of their troubles could absolutely be placed on Brett Favre. He's the QB, for crying out loud, and he had some bad seasons. He had 3-4 years that could be characterized as below-average, and at least one where he was very bad. He lead the league in interceptions three times, after all. That's the dirty little secret about Brett Favre: he wasn't always great. Sometimes he was great, but most of the time he was just really good. He's a living legend because he was really good for a long time in a sport that most people can't play for long. But longevity is difference than dominance, and he was bad almost as often as he was genuinely dominant.

As for the "they should be happy for him" part. They should be happy if a division rival wins the Super Bowl? You can't be serious.



I didn't call Favre leaving an "awful backstabbing wretched act," but he didn't behave well. He behaved in a fairly selfish manner, from what information I can see. And even your defense of him, if true, would mean all his talk about team play and trying to win is bunk. There's simply no combination of reasons or motivations in which he comes out of this looking like the Person of the Year you seem to want to think he is.
He isnt the person of the year, is overhyped, and is not a traitor. He bled too long for Green Bay to be called a traitor. A selfish athlete?! He cant even compare to alot of examples throughout the NFL, and especially other sports. He didnt come out of Green Bay smelling like a rose, I feel he deserved too though, and Green Bay shouldnt take it personally. What?! Say no to $12 million dollars, and have a real chance at the super bowl?! Hes not a traitor.

And sure, some of their troubles could absolutely be placed on Brett Favre. He's the QB, for crying out loud, and he had some bad seasons. He had 3-4 years that could be characterized as below-average, and at least one where he was very bad. He lead the league in interceptions three times, after all. That's the dirty little secret about Brett Favre: he wasn't always great. Sometimes he was great, but most of the time he was just really good. He's a living legend because he was really good for a long time in a sport that most people can't play for long. But longevity is difference than dominance, and he was bad almost as often as he was genuinely dominant.
It takes more than one person. Peyton couldnt do it till Dungy got there. Marino never did it. The organization, and management failed more than he imo. The proofs in the pudding with his success elsewhere. He isnt a Marino, Montana, or -insert statistical legend here-...Favre was a regular tough guy kinda like Bradshaw but with more ability.

As for the "they should be happy for him" part. They should be happy if a division rival wins the Super Bowl? You can't be serious.
I would think little kids that grew up cheering for him would still feel good for him, but Im obviously wrong. Just seems sad and unnecessary holding onto it all though. Green Bay is better than that.



He isnt the person of the year, is overhyped, and is not a traitor. He bled too long for Green Bay to be called a traitor. A selfish athlete?! He cant even compare to alot of examples throughout the NFL, and especially other sports. He didnt come out of Green Bay smelling like a rose, I feel he deserved too though, and Green Bay shouldnt take it personally. What?! Say no to $12 million dollars, and have a real chance at the super bowl?! Hes not a traitor.
Man, how do you fit so many non-sequiturs into one paragraph? I'll go quickly:

1) I'm not defending the idea that he's a "traitor." Take it up with the guy in the hospital, he's the one who said it.

2) Yeah, there are lots of selfish football players. That doesn't exonerate him. Especially when you seem to be suggesting that he's an especially good guy.

3) No one's saying he should say no to $12 million, but Packers fans don't like the Vikings, so obviously it bugs them when their biggest star plays for them. This is completely reasonable.

4) "Real chance at a Super Bowl"? Please go back and look at the Win-Loss records I posted earlier. He left a 13-3 team that had been consistently very good. And which is it; was the money too tempting, or did he want to win a Super Bowl? You've given about a half-dozen different reasons Favre left, and most of them don't make a lot of sense to me, or don't jibe very well with the others.

I dunno what else to say to the rest. I've explained why he conducted himself badly. You can keep saying he deserved this or that, but the facts concerning his behavior are still sitting there. If you have some kind of gut feeling that he's a totally awesome guy underneath it all, that's your prerogative, but it's really just speculation.

It takes more than one person. Peyton couldnt do it till Dungy got there. Marino never did it. The organization, and management failed more than he imo. The proofs in the pudding with his success elsewhere. He isnt a Marino, Montana, or -insert statistical legend here-...Favre was a regular tough guy kinda like Bradshaw but with more ability.
Okay, again...take a look at the W-L records I posted earlier. The Green Bay Packers were contenders almost every year for something like 12+ years. I dunno where you're getting the idea that they "failed" him.

That said, when I said Brett had played badly, I wasn't talking about wins and losses, I was talking about his own numbers. He's had several years where he put up bad numbers. If you're saying that these are the product of the team around him, I'm sure there's at least some truth to that, but the opposite is true, too. If he avoids blame for the bad numbers, he loses some credit for the good ones, too.

I would think little kids that grew up cheering for him would still feel good for him, but Im obviously wrong. Just seems sad and unnecessary holding onto it all though. Green Bay is better than that.
Green Bay is full of Packers fan, who root for the Packers. Which means they don't root for the other teams in their division. How is this supposed to reflect negatively on them? They're fans of the Packers. Brett Favre does not completely transcend and replace their team. They're not "holding onto" anything except being Packers fans.

Anyway, look: it's pretty obvious that you really, really like Brett Favre. That's fine. But the fact is that the Packers were consistently very good, had good running backs, and that Favre handled his last couple of seasons there very poorly. If you like him anyway, well, that's up to you, of course. It's the reasons I've gotta take issue with.



Brett Favre.
He won't quit until no team wants him.
Jerry Rice.
All those years with the 49ers and Seattle wouldn't even pass to him.
John Madden said he was a decoy.
I think Marino could have gone to the Vikings, but didn't.
Johnny Bench said he was most proud of only playing for one team, the Reds.
Mike Schmidt couldn't finish his last season.
How many times did Magic Johnson retire, come back, retire, and come back?
The dog killer Vick gets to play.
I guess it doesn't matter.
Sports are supposed to reflect real life.
Nothing beats the world series in November.
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"If you can't be funny be interesting."
Harold Ross



Anyway, look: it's pretty obvious that you really, really like Brett Favre. That's fine. But the fact is that the Packers were consistently very good, had good running backs, and that Favre handled his last couple of seasons there very poorly. If you like him anyway, well, that's up to you, of course. It's the reasons I've gotta take issue with.
Yeah Im a fan, and maybe fans are irrational....a lil deluded with some blinders on at times idk. I know of alot of the athletes that screw up in a major way publicly Favre is worth defending. He cant do anything about it now anyway. People just judge him too harshly, and the fact that hes not a Brees, Marino, or Peyton passing machine makes his success all sweeter. Im glad I can still enjoy that about him! Ill miss rooting for the gray haired tough gunslinger thats was just a good football player.



In the Beginning...
Okay, I'm at work and will have to read everything that's been posted already sometime later today. But on the argument of Brett Favre, I'm saying this:

I'm a Vikings fan. I like to think the rivalry with Green Bay is a friendly one, but this is just ridiculous. Packer fans have nothing to complain about. Green Bay has won three of four Super Bowl appearances, and since Favre joined the team in 1992, has suffered only one losing season.

Whatever misfortune they might claim comes nowhere close to the Vikings' ups and downs. Minnesota lost the Super Bowl four times in the 1970s and haven't been back since. They've struggled with quarterbacks and coaches far more than Green Bay, and in my lifetime, have only come close to the big game once - in 1998 - when a phenomenal 15-0 season ended just shy of the Super Bowl because Gary Anderson decided to miss his first field goal all year.

Packer fans can complain about Favre, but the fact of the matter is, Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy were right to move Aaron Rodgers up. He's a great quarterback and deserves to start. But you can't bench a guy like Brett Favre. If you're going to relegate him to second-string, you might as well cut or trade him to get him off your salary books, and let him play elsewhere. For everything he's done for Green Bay, he deserves that much at least.

And I'd almost appreciate the tongue-in-cheek humor of the mock funeral Packers fans held for him on Sunday, if I didn't think they were actually serious. Nobody seemed to care when he was traded to the Jets, but God forbid he go to the Vikings. Way to trash a guy for wanting to continue playing - the same guy who carried Green Bay for more than a decade and delivered 14 winning seasons and a Super Bowl.

Originally Posted by Yoda
5) No, at best he is wishy-washy. That's my point. If you're correct, and he actually wanted out, then it's incredibly dishonest to pretend he just wanted to retire, let the Pack go ahead with other plans, and then try to jump back in. If he wanted to play elsewhere, he should have just said so. So the best thing you can say about his behavior is that it was indecisive. The worst is that it was deliberately misleading.
Is it entirely clear that Favre didn't just say he wanted to play somewhere else? My understanding is that Favre retired, regretted it, attempted to return to Green Bay, and found that Thompson and McCarthy had committed to Aaron Rodgers as the starter (but would not grant Favre an unconditional release). Favre also claimed that prior to his first retirement, he was pressured by Packer management to make a decision (and considering his injury issues and age, rightly so).

But it's also entirely possible that McCarthy told Favre that Rodgers was moving up, regardless of his decision. So rather than suffer the indignity of holding a clipboard, it seems Favre opted to retire and preserve his legacy at Green Bay. If that's true, I can't fault the guy for still wanting to play. I just can't. Even if he played all those years for Minnesota and decided to jump ship to Chicago, I'd still want to see him continue his career.



And here I thought this subject was finally dead. Oh, how wrong I was.

I'm a Vikings fan. I like to think the rivalry with Green Bay is a friendly one, but this is just ridiculous. Packer fans have nothing to complain about. Green Bay has won three of four Super Bowl appearances, and since Favre joined the team in 1992, has suffered only one losing season.

Whatever misfortune they might claim comes nowhere close to the Vikings' ups and downs. Minnesota lost the Super Bowl four times in the 1970s and haven't been back since. They've struggled with quarterbacks and coaches far more than Green Bay, and in my lifetime, have only come close to the big game once - in 1998 - when a phenomenal 15-0 season ended just shy of the Super Bowl because Gary Anderson decided to miss his first field goal all year.
While I feel for the Vikings ('98 was particularly rough), I'm not sure I see the point here; who's denying that Favre was very good, or very successful? And why would the Vikings misfortunes factor into this? Heck, the Browns are even worse, but I wouldn't suggest you stop griping because Minnesota's had it better than they have.

Packer fans can complain about Favre, but the fact of the matter is, Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy were right to move Aaron Rodgers up. He's a great quarterback and deserves to start. But you can't bench a guy like Brett Favre. If you're going to relegate him to second-string, you might as well cut or trade him to get him off your salary books, and let him play elsewhere. For everything he's done for Green Bay, he deserves that much at least.

And I'd almost appreciate the tongue-in-cheek humor of the mock funeral Packers fans held for him on Sunday, if I didn't think they were actually serious. Nobody seemed to care when he was traded to the Jets, but God forbid he go to the Vikings. Way to trash a guy for wanting to continue playing - the same guy who carried Green Bay for more than a decade and delivered 14 winning seasons and a Super Bowl.
It's not "for wanting to continue playing," it's for snubbing Rodgers, keeping the team on pins and needles for years, making decisions with major implications without much thought (apparently), and then playing for a major rival. These are perfectly good reasons to be annoyed with the guy, if you're a Packers fan.

Now, the mock funeral is silly, of course, but that can't be used to discredit the idea that Packer fans should be upset with how Favre has handled things. The fact that some people are overreacting (though I think most of it is tongue-in-cheek) does not mean they shouldn't be reacting at all.

Is it entirely clear that Favre didn't just say he wanted to play somewhere else? My understanding is that Favre retired, regretted it, attempted to return to Green Bay, and found that Thompson and McCarthy had committed to Aaron Rodgers as the starter (but would not grant Favre an unconditional release). Favre also claimed that prior to his first retirement, he was pressured by Packer management to make a decision (and considering his injury issues and age, rightly so).

But it's also entirely possible that McCarthy told Favre that Rodgers was moving up, regardless of his decision. So rather than suffer the indignity of holding a clipboard, it seems Favre opted to retire and preserve his legacy at Green Bay. If that's true, I can't fault the guy for still wanting to play. I just can't. Even if he played all those years for Minnesota and decided to jump ship to Chicago, I'd still want to see him continue his career.
Sure, we don't know all the details here; I'm just going off of what we know, and what makes sense based on what we know. There's a lot we'll never know about it.

If Favre was told they wanted to play Rodgers, and demanded a trade based on that, that's understandable. I wouldn't have any issue with that. But why, then, would he retire, and then immediately unretire and demand the job back? He also said, in his own retirement announcement, that it had nothing to do with the Packers and that he didn't want to play any more. He went back on this four months later, of course. His indecision and apparent fear of being pushed out caused him to behave in some pretty irrational and inconsistent ways.

Really, you said it yourself earlier: you can't bench Brett Favre. That's what it comes down to, and that's a pretty crappy situation for the Packers to be in. His career was winding down, and they saw an opportunity to grab a great young QB late in the 1st round and had to take it. Favre decided to keep playing, and Rodgers sat their patiently (again, for three years...I cannot emphasize that enough) because, whether or not it was the right move, they can't bench Brett Favre.

Personally, I think refusing to help Rodgers along is probably the most egregious thing in this whole situation, though. That's pretty diva-ish.



We interrupt Fantasy Favreball to bring you a quick update on the effects of last night's game. As you may recall, a whopping five of the seven matchups this week were still up in the air heading into Monday Night Football. Some of the outcomes were pretty dramatic.

Here was what I posted yesterday for each matchup (got 'em all right!):

Slug's Sweeties vs. Beantown Champs
As mentioned above, Pete has Matt Ryan, Reggie Bush, and Michael Jenkins still to go, and needs about 29 points. I think he'll get 'em.
And get 'em he did, but it was quite close. Pete's Beantown Champs were down just a single point with something like a third of the game left to go, and it looked like a sure thing, but a couple of Matt Ryan turnovers later, Pete was down about 3 points late in the 4th quarter. Amazingly, the Saints fumbled on a run-out-the-clock possession with less than 2:00 left, Ryan threw a couple of passes, and Jenkins caught a 16-yard pass to give him the lead, giving Pete a 4-point victory.

11 Angry Men vs. Team Darcy
I've got D. Brees, M. Colston, and a 20-point lead, up against M. Turner and T. Gonzalez. I should be okay, unless the Saints passing game somehow gets completely shut down.
This ended up being correct. Forgot to mention I had Elam going last night, too. Elam put up 10, and Brees and Colston each put up 20, and I won by about 35. Turner had a great game and Gonzalez was solid.

Gadsden Flag vs. Flash
Flash trails by 20 points, but has Lance Moore and Mike Bell going tonight. Very tough call. I think I'll say he falls just short, but Moore's pretty unpredictable at this point.
This was correct, as well, though it wasn't as close as I'd suspected. Moore pulled his disappearing act and Bell, while getting plenty of carries, didn't score and ended up with a mediocre YPC average. Jay held on by 14.

TONGO vs. Da Bears
Mikey's Bears need about 16-17 points, and have Roddy White and the Saints defense going tonight. I think he should get about 20+ from the two.
Mikey took the win, as predicted, but got the 20 I expected from R. White alone, and another 15 from the Saints D.

PW's Odd Squad vs. Hired Goons
PW trails by just over 1 point, and has Jeremy Shockey going tonight. Just needs a 3-yard reception out of him, basically, so yeah, I think he'll get it, and with it a much needed win to stay in the playoff hunt.
No-brainer; PW got the catch he needed and plenty more, and won by 11.

Pretty exciting week.

Big win for PW, who wouldn't have had any margin for error if he'd fallen to 3-5. There are now five teams at 5-3 and two at 4-4, so there's still a huge cluster in the middle. Those seven teams are fighting for four playoff spots. Points tiebreakers are going to be the difference for at least one slot, I'd imagine; PW has the edge there (3rd overall), followed by Darcy and Mikey.