White Supremacist rams Car through Counter Protestors, Killing 1

Tools    





Trump is going to start a civil street war by fanning the flames of hatred. Hate is what he offers, and that's what in part elected him.

No other president
would have also blamed the anti protesters who stand against the KKK.

What do you think Bush, Regan, Clinton or Obama would have said? I give you a hint, it's not what Trump said.



You can't win an argument just by being right!
Trump is going to start a civil street war by fanning the flames of hatred. Hate is what he offers, and that's what in part elected him.

Oddly enough one of my brothers said this would happen with Trump during the campaign. His words 'the undercurrent there is a blind pimple. Trump will make sure it becomes the boil from hell that explodes all over the ceiling'



Trump is going to start a civil street war by fanning the flames of hatred. Hate is what he offers, and that's what in part elected him.

No other president
would have also blamed the anti protesters who stand against the KKK.

What do you think Bush, Regan, Clinton or Obama would have said? I give you a hint, it's not what Trump said.
Just for clarity, at the point when Trump condemned violence from "all sides," no one knew the identity or motives of the driver of the assaulting vehicle.

Now, if the driver had turned out to be something other than a Nazi then much of the criticism of Trump's initial comments would have been moot. It is only in the 20-20 vision of hindsight and the revelation of the driver's apparent motives that they seem to become more deserved.

Personally, I think it's wiser to keep comments generalized during a situation that is transpiring at the same time you are asked to comment on it, rather than jumping to conclusions before all facts are in.



You can't win an argument just by being right!
Just for clarity, at the point when Trump condemned violence from "all sides," no one knew the identity or motives of the driver of the assaulting vehicle..
I thought they did. I knew who he was before the news conference.



I thought they did. I knew who he was before the news conference.
From everything I've seen - Trump's first comments occurred the day the protests turned violent (Saturday, 08/12/17). He commented on Twitter BEFORE the car assault at 1:19 pm regarding the skirmishes that were erupting in Charlottesville.

"We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!"

At 1:42 pm the car rammed the crowd. The driver was apprehended by police a short time later.

Around 3:30 that afternoon, Trump made his statement condemning violence from "many sides."

Presumably, there was still nothing known about the driver at this time except by the cops that were processing him.

It wasn't until 9:46 pm that night that police released the identity of the driver of the car.

http://abc7.com/a-timeline-of-events...ginia/2305769/



You can't win an argument just by being right!
Doesnt explain his performance at the press conference, though. And what violence did the victims commit prior to the drive through? I;m not saying there wasnt any, only I didnt see any.



Doesnt explain his performance at the press conference, though. And what violence did the victims commit prior to the drive through? I;m not saying there wasnt any, only I didnt see any.
You'll have to be more specific about his performance at the press conference.

As to the victims of the car assault committing violence before the attack, we don't know beyond what was observed - that they were marching and apparently blocking traffic, all we know is they were victims. Trump never suggested they deserved to be mowed down.

I believe he condemned violence on "many sides" because, in addition to white supremacist groups, it was known early on that counter groups like BLM and Antifa came with some people who were armed with weapons and fights between the various groups broke out. And, at the time he made the statement the identity and the motives of the driver were unknown.



You can't win an argument just by being right!
It's in the video posted by powdered water.



You can't win an argument just by being right!
And how about this? Unless that's taken out of context, which ofcourse it could be, sure looks like he;s justifying his skinhead voters. I dont know what that publication is so could be gutter press making sht up for all I know.

https://news.vice.com/story/donald-t...ampaign=global



Putting the cause of the Confederacy on the same shelf as the cause of the Nazis is intellectually dishonest and historically inaccurate, in my opinion.
I am not saying they are the same. I am saying that historically important people should be honored everywhere no matter how repugnant they were. Or to put in another way, the logic is that you should honor repugnant people why not honor everybody who has been historically important?

There are some very important nuances that tend to be overlooked these days. Here are just a few of them:

- The Confederacy wanted to keep things as they were. They were racist because everyone before them had been racist.
One important correction: Slavery is not racism, by the way. The two things are very different.

Slavery is an institution that you can attack/defend without talking about "race". It is a very repugnant institution indeed.

The Nazis practiced a lot of slavery themselves as they drafted (i.e. forced into military action) 18 million people, who had no option of escaping from service plus 3-4 million slaves in the civilian economy (mostly POWs used as forced labor).

Also, you can think of taxation as a form of partial slavery since part of your product is confiscated by the State without your consent. The difference between it and classic slavery is that the State that imposes it on you instead of being a private individual who "owns" you.

They were part of a system that always had been racist. Slavery was part of their way of living. The Nazis were different, as they wanted to implement a much more racist system than the one that was in place (yes, they treated the Jews as a race, not a religion).
Most of the western world by 1860 had abolished slavery and most enlightened people opposed slavery as well. Transatlantic slave trade was already abolished by that point and in the US most slaves were offspring of slaves. Outside of the US, their slavery was viewed as something completely absurd.

For example, I read some of Arthur Schopenhauer's texts and he talks about his opinion of "slavery in the North American states", writing around 1850, as something completely immoral. In Europe (or Asia) this kind of thing did not exist at the time.

- The Confederacy wasn't in favor of exterminating a race. They were defenders of the racial superiority that was already in place (slavery). The ideology of the Nazis was to actually exterminate an entire race.
You mean religion because jews are not a race.

Also they didn't want to exterminate the jews living outside of Continental Europe and they only planned to exterminate the jews in Continental Europe after the British imposed a trade blockade on Continental Europe so that they couldn't import food anymore. As a solution they decided to lower Continental Europe's population through mass execution of the least wanted groups (i.e. Jews, gays and gypsies) to compensate for the reduction in food supply. Or do you think they would let Germans go hungry to keep the Jews alive?

- The Confederacy wanted to separate themselves from a Union that wanted to force their rules onto them, while the Nazis were imperialistic and wanted to impose their rules on other nations.
That's the best argument for their moral difference: they wanted to separate and the Union was being imperialistic by imposing the US's federal government on a separatist region. The Nazis wanted to impose their thing by force over Continental Europe.

Both causes were inherently based on immoral assumptions about race, but put in their historical context, I think it's pretty fair to say that the Confederacy was a less scandalous cause than Nazism was.
True but their cause was completely ludicrous as well: separate from the US to keep their slaves and fight against abolition of such barbarian institution?



I hadn't even seen Trump's most recent press conference till now.

I've never "liked" him, but after seeing that, I actually feel a little better about him. He's making some of the same arguments I've been making. (Maybe Trump's been reading MY posts!)

It comes down to this - the left, the media (whoever) are using this event as yet another way to attack Trump as part of the larger, on-going, PC-driven, temper-tantrum, sore-loser-syndrome Trump derangement.

He does have a lot of legitimate issues to criticize him on, but it becomes hard to take even the criticisms on valid issues too seriously when they criticize him on everything in such an obsessed & frenzied fashion, to the point where they start saying his every word (or everything he doesn't say) is some kind of secret signal to trigger Nazis and other such nonsense.

And, sadly, in making this all about Trump, they take the focus off where it really should be - on the groups that began the violence, on the perpetrator who murdered a woman and severely injured many others, on the victims, and on the police officers who died in a tragic accident while trying to respond to the crisis.



I am not saying they are the same. I am saying that historically important people should be honored everywhere no matter how repugnant they were. Or to put in another way, the logic is that you should honor repugnant people why not honor everybody who has been historically important?
I'm not saying they should be honored. I'm simply saying that vandalizing their statues is not the right way to cope with the history.

One important correction: Slavery is not racism, by the way. The two things are very different.

Slavery is an institution that you can attack/defend without talking about "race". It is a very repugnant institution indeed.
Yes, but slavery in the US was indisputably based on race and therefore racist.

Most of the western world by 1860 had abolished slavery and most enlightened people opposed slavery as well. Transatlantic slave trade was already abolished by that point and in the US most slaves were offspring of slaves. Outside of the US, their slavery was viewed as something completely absurd.
People didn't live in a globalist society back then, so their local/regional/national system was pretty much the only system that they really ever came into contact with. Therefore it's fair to say that they were part of a system where slavery was legal and common.

You mean religion because jews are not a race.
No, I meant race, because the Nazis treated and talked about the Jews as a race. Everyone who was of "Jewish heritage" was a victim of their policies. I already made this remark in my original post.

True but their cause was completely ludicrous as well: separate from the US to keep their slaves and fight against abolition of such barbarian institution?
True.
__________________
Cobpyth's Movie Log ~ 2019



You can't win an argument just by being right!
And what's this all about. You cant tell me those two words werent very carefully selected.

“You had a group on one side that was bad. You had a group on the other side that was also very violent.

No guesses as to which sides he was talking about being just 'bad' or bad but 'also very violent'

I cant stand the guy and never could, but I cant stand him even more after that clown festival. He's a disingenuous turd, a sociopath and just a sht of a human being who has David Duke blowing smoke up his bum, and has he told Duke to pipe down?. In his words

Nobody wants to say that. I’ll say it right now

Sure the press is a lynch mob and always have been, but he brings all this negative attention on himself and always has. He's nothing but a thug.



The problem is that white supremacy can't just be written off as a "different opinion" - it's a belief that is centred on the subjugation and elimination of entire groups of people based on ultimately arbitrary reasons such as a difference in race or ethnicity. There's no "learning to live with" worldviews that are rooted in the idea that certain types of people don't deserve to live at all, hence why the opposition tends to come in the form of protests/counter-protests and even acts of physical violence - as extreme as these actions may seem, they're all supposed to ensure that these worldviews can't be implemented and cause any actual genocides.

As for what this has to do with Trump - even if white supremacy didn't actually factor into your original decision to vote for Trump, you still have to reckon with the fact that there are significant enough connections between him and white supremacy that actively continuing to support him this far into his presidency is to implicitly condone the white supremacy that he encourages. You don't seem particularly enthusiastic about having voted for him, so you can get the benefit of the doubt in this regard. It's just a matter of being aware of what exactly the issue is and why people would get so heated about it - getting defensive because you find the implication personally offensive is understandable, but the issue itself is bigger than either of us.
It seems strong terms like white supremacy, KKK, and racists get thrown around like candy, but the fact is that genuine white supremacists are VERY few and far between. Yes, a few of them turned up in Charlottesville, but painting everyone in the same brush is doing so much more harm than good. The KKK is virtually non-existent, from what I've read, there are just a few scattered groups that put on white robes and say "we're the klan!". Sure they still exists to a small degree, but that does not mean that they're a major or even minor threat.

Honestly just lumping everyone that isn't a left extremist a "white supremacist" is, imo, fanning the flames of a civil war more than anything. There are people that lean right, and are genuinely good people, but if you automatically demonize them because they don't share the same views as you, you might actually CONVINCE them to side with the right extremists. THAT is what's going to lead to more violence and people getting killed... not because of Trump, and not because of these low life neo-nazis that just stand there at rallies and shout stupid stuff.



i'm SUPER GOOD at Jewel karaoke
It comes down to this - the left, the media (whoever) are using this event as yet another way to attack Trump as part of the larger, on-going, PC-driven, temper-tantrum, sore-loser-syndrome Trump derangement.
as usual, you're incredibly dismissive and short sighted. I recommend you re read what you said. because it's awfully flippant to act like anyone who is upset and angry about this is mainly using this event as yet another way to bitch about losing the election. ffs, "temper-tantrum?" so now anyone who reacts in anger is just being a baby?

you know what? don't bother responding with some lame dad joke and winky face, cause I don't even really care. but this is some weak ass sauce.
__________________
letterboxd



Trump just claimed that: 'Alt-left' bears some blame for Charlottesville violence.

MSN news story

How cute, little Donny feels bad for the KKK & Neo-Nazi's. I guess he's not as stupid as we think...he knows what side his bread is buttered
It's because it's true, the violence is instigated and perpetrated by both the right and left at these things. Trump is denouncing ALL the violence which I can agree with.

Also Trump already denounced and condemned white supremacyright after the Charlottesville incident happened:




as usual, you're incredibly dismissive and short sighted. I recommend you re read what you said. because it's awfully flippant to act like anyone who is upset and angry about this is mainly using this event as yet another way to bitch about losing the election. ffs, "temper-tantrum?" so now anyone who reacts in anger is just being a baby?

you know what? don't bother responding with some lame dad joke and winky face, cause I don't even really care. but this is some weak ass sauce.
What's a "dad joke"?



as usual, you're incredibly dismissive and short sighted. I recommend you re read what you said. because it's awfully flippant to act like anyone who is upset and angry about this is mainly using this event as yet another way to bitch about losing the election. ffs, "temper-tantrum?" so now anyone who reacts in anger is just being a baby?

you know what? don't bother responding with some lame dad joke and winky face, cause I don't even really care. but this is some weak ass sauce.
Let me ask - when you say "anyone is upset and angry about this" what are you referring to?

Because there are a lot of different things anyone could be upset and angry about surrounding various events last weekend in Charlottesville.

It could be about the removal of the statue (some peaceful historians, students, art appreciators and Southerners are upset about it AND some hate groups are upset about it).

It could be the presence of white supremacists groups who came to protest in Charlottesville.

It could be the presence of leftist groups who came armed and looking for confrontations with white hate groups.

It could be the fights that erupted between several different groups, some of which were obviously looking for violence since they came armed and in combat gear.

It could be over the innocent bystanders, residents, observers, reporters, or peaceful counter protesters who got caught in the violence.

It could be over the vehicle assault by a Nazi that took Heather Heyer's life and injured many others.

It could be the tragic helicopter crash that cost the lives of two police officers.

Or it could be over the comments made by Trump at a time when no facts about the vehicular attack were known.

Or it could be over later comments & statements made by Trump AFTER more facts and details were known.

Or it could be the media reaction dedicated to covering Trumps comments, analyzing anything he did not say, interpreting it as coded signaling to hate groups, and casting wild accusations in the presence of public condemnations, all in lieu of focusing on the incidents in Charlottesville, or the perpetrator of the homicide, or the victims.



28 days...6 hours...42 minutes...12 seconds
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that he won, let alone that he won't disavow white nationalists who support him and finds a way to blame 'both sides' when only one side committed an act of terrorism.

For someone to say they feel 'better' about him now???? The boggles my mind even more.
__________________
"A laugh can be a very powerful thing. Why, sometimes in life, it's the only weapon we have."

Suspect's Reviews