White Supremacist rams Car through Counter Protestors, Killing 1

There were third-party options, though - voting for Trump specifically does feed into the "racism isn't a deal-breaker" line of thought.

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Waste of a vote. I understand why people do it, but if you really didn't want Trump to become President, you voted for Hillary. You tried to stop it from happening. She was the only one who could stop him. If you didn't vote for Hillary, you condoned a Trump presidency even just a little bit. Hillary, too, but Trump as well. A third party was not going to stop either one of them.

So what? Hillary once said she didn't support gay people. All of a sudden, when it's time to run for President, she's all for them? Give me a break, Homophoby Clinton.

You don't need to convince me that third-party voting was a waste - PW was willing to lump such voters in with the people who "made Trump happen", so yeah.

In any case, I don't think the guy who picked Mike Pence for a running mate was all that concerned with the well-being of gay people in the first place. If it's something that both candidates had in common, then it only throws their other differences into sharper relief.

I'm just tired of hearing everybody screaming that Trump and his supporters are the whole problem, that they're all white supremacists or whatever. It doesn't look good, it doesn't look right, it solves nothing, it's juvenile, everybody calm down.

I honestly find this offensive, I voted for Trump but it wasn't because I wanted him as president it was because I didn't want Hillary to win. I was unhappy with Obama's presidency and I knew if Hillary won it would have been more of the same. And when I voted I was 99% sure that he wasn't going to win, SNL and all these TV and news stations were joking about how Hillary had the election all but won. I was genuinely shocked when I found out Trump won and honestly wasn't thrilled about it because I wanted NEITHER to win, I just wanted Trump to win just a tad less.

But just because I decided to vote for Trump does NOT make me a white supremacist. I know who I am and I may not have the most politically correct of views at times but a racist is one thing I can guarantee you I am not.

This is exactly what I was talking about in my first post in this thread. Nowadays it seems like everyone feels like they need to be "extreme left" or else they're "supporting white supremacy", that IS NOT TRUE. Like I said we need to get rid of this whole "left or right" bs, we need to understand each other better and learn to live with different opinions instead of shouting at and fighting each other whenever there's conflicting views.

They're enough of a problem, and no amount of say-it-ain't-so deflections is going to minimise that.

The good news is that the majority of Americans are still moderate, rational thinkers who do not support extremists or any type of racial supremacy no matter who they voted for.

Same.

That kind of moderate mindset is not necessarily above reproach, especially if a tacit refusal to take sides on an issue can be interpreted as implicit support for aggressors.

Depends on the issue, the sides and the interpretation of the aggressors (one side always sees the others as the aggressors - look at North Korea - they say they are getting ready for a nuclear strike due to the USA's "aggression").

In situations where you have multiple aggressors, then you have multiple sides

The problem is that white supremacy can't just be written off as a "different opinion" - it's a belief that is centred on the subjugation and elimination of entire groups of people based on ultimately arbitrary reasons such as a difference in race or ethnicity. There's no "learning to live with" worldviews that are rooted in the idea that certain types of people don't deserve to live at all, hence why the opposition tends to come in the form of protests/counter-protests and even acts of physical violence - as extreme as these actions may seem, they're all supposed to ensure that these worldviews can't be implemented and cause any actual genocides.

As for what this has to do with Trump - even if white supremacy didn't actually factor into your original decision to vote for Trump, you still have to reckon with the fact that there are significant enough connections between him and white supremacy that actively continuing to support him this far into his presidency is to implicitly condone the white supremacy that he encourages. You don't seem particularly enthusiastic about having voted for him, so you can get the benefit of the doubt in this regard. It's just a matter of being aware of what exactly the issue is and why people would get so heated about it - getting defensive because you find the implication personally offensive is understandable, but the issue itself is bigger than either of us.

I don't see these significant connections, honestly. What am I not seeing? Where's all of this "Trump = White Power" stuff coming from?

Yeah, the KKK and other groups may have supported Trump, but just because these people like Trump, how does that mean Trump himself is a racist? Where's that? Where's this big connection that he's a racist and a white supremacist? It's not staring at me in the face. It just isn't. And I'm not trying to avoid the truth or anything. Show me that he's a racist and a white supremacist. Prove it to me.

But is white supremacy really a concept that merits the consider-all-sides approach? As noted, it's a worldview with the end goal of destroying anybody who doesn't fit into an extremely narrow ideal of what constitutes a "worthy" human being - it is an inherently violent worldview that can't be expected to peacefully co-exist with opposing viewpoints. It's also irrational, so you can't really talk people out of it (not saying that it's impossible, just highly improbably) - hence why people can and will respond with physical violence.

Now you sound like someone else on this board. "Where's your evidence?" "Prove it!"... You people can't be reasoned with.

And I sure am sorry if I offended anybody on the board. But I can't prove to you just how sorry I am, so you'll just have to take my word for it.

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We are both the source of the problem and the solution, yet we do not see ourselves in this light...

Who do I sound like? Nostromo?

Well, come on. Give me examples that he's a racist. Just one example. Do it for everybody reading the thread, not just me. There might be some uninformed, unregistered guests reading who want to know.

I wasn't suggesting that you have to consider all sides - I just said it depends on the situation. With VA, it seems there were various groups involved that spanned a spectrum of questionable to evil ideologies, plus observers, plus counter protesters with good intentions, plus agitators who just wanted to see fights, plus innocent bystanders who happen to live there.

We also witnessed questionable (PC influenced?) orders from authorities - such as issuing stand-down orders to the police (same as we saw in Baltimore where hordes of violent rioters were allowed to prey upon the property and safety of the innocent). Perhaps a more consistent upholding and enforcement of the rule of law could have prevented some of the violence we witnessed.

Seriously, I couldn't follow it all - aside from the vehicular assault, most of what I saw on news video was groups of white people having skirmishes with other groups of white people - I couldn't tell who the "supremacists" were.

As far as where I stand - I don't support removing statues unless a majority of the local residents want them removed - put it to a vote.

I don't support white supremacists, black supremacists or any supremacists. I oppose violence and put the safety and protection of the community as the first priority for authorities - a priority that supersedes even the upholding of certain first amendment rights.

As far as Trump's comments - the criticism occurred over comments made at a point in time when all the details were not in. He made generalized comments which were adequate for a situation that was still transpiring. No one even knew the identity of the driver of the assaulting vehicle at that point. So I agree it's better to keep comments general rather than jumping to conclusions about situations before all the facts are in.

So, this is something I'd love to have someone prove out to me. If there are so many rational thinkers in this country then why does the KKK even still exist? If rational thinking allows for the KKK then rational thinking is a joke.

The proof is that if the majority of Americans weren't moderate & rational, then we would have descended into nationwide anarchy and would have all killed each other decades ago, rather than having a somewhat diverse society that values freedoms and still holds onto various liberties in its constitution.

As to why the KKK still exists (even in its much diminished state compared to eras passed) I don't know why evil continues to flourish in so many forms. Even though the majority of people are law abiding and good hearted, why are there still child molestors, rapists, muggers, murderers, terrorists?

There's people in the street right now dude. This is starting to feel like a climate change debate. I think you're confusing rational thinking with apathy.

I looked out my window - no one in the street. Most people are in bed preparing to get up for work with the sunrise and aren't out looking for other races to kill. As I said, the majority of people are moderate and rational.

That doesn't mean extremists don't exist, it just means that not everybody is an extremist and, in fact, MOST people are not.

(Geez, I'm starting to sound like those people who argue with me about radical Islam. And of course I concur that the majority of Muslims, just like the majority of most worldwide religions, nationalities, ethnic or regional groups are not radicals or extremists.)